U.S. protests restrictions on its citizens entering West Bank

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"The United States government has lodged a vigorous protest with Israel over its restrictions on the entry of Palestinian-Americans into the territories.

State Department officials told senior Israeli diplomats in Washington that they find it "hard to understand" Israel's discriminating against American citizens based on their ethnic background.

The officials also stressed that in the past, the U.S. had encouraged Palestinian-Americans to settle in the territories, in order to facilitate Palestinian economic growth. Some of these individuals own homes and businesses in the territories, and the Israeli restrictions make it hard for them to look after their assets.

Israel promised to look into the American complaint. A diplomatic source in Jerusalem said on Tuesday that the individuals involved have been blacklisted for security reasons, based on targeted intelligence."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/776027.html

[mike_c]

1. it's called apartheid....

It still stinks, too.

[Englander]

27. Yeah, it's clear that the Olmert govt has decided on apartheid.

It's clear that the unilaterialist, rw Israeli govt has decided to implement a policy of apartheid
in the OPT.

[Nolo_Contendre]

2. What's the problem? It's a Jewish State!

Hasn't the State Department heard about the Law of Return? Jews only, thank you very much.
This has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 and don't dare even bring that up.

[Behind the Aegis]

3. Your post doesn't even make sense.

This has nothing to do with the Law of Return, 9-11, or anything along those lines. It is nothing but a string of words.

[Nolo_Contendre]

4. Dream on sweet child, dream on

Eat the poppies and drink the Kool-Aid. And watch out for bogeymen bearing false witness.

[Behind the Aegis]

5. yet more words, and still no meaning.

[nicoll]

42. West Bank not part of the State of Israel

Look I don't know where you get your facts from but the state of Israel does not include the West Bank. The State of Israel is clearly marked on all maps and I find it ridiculous that they should have any control over who enters the West Bank. If I wanted to go their my self it would be up the Palestinian Authority and nothing to do with Israel who I would not even consult on the matter.

[breakaleg]

6. This is one thing I would like some pro-Israeli person to explain.

Often in cases like this, we are talking of fairly wealthy Americans who've chosen to return and invest in the territories. What is Israel trying to gain by blocking them from their homes?

There are other similar reports of Palestinian-American citizens whose visas are about to expire and have been told they won't be allowed re-entry into the West Bank should they leave to get the visa renewed. There are reports of Palestinian-Americans whose property and cars have been destroyed by the IDF as the cars are easily recognized by their different colored license plates.

Why target these people? These are the people trying to make the region better. They aren't terrorists.

[Behind the Aegis]

7. What's to explain?

A sovereign nation can decide who comes or doesn't come into their country or areas they occupy. It doesn't make it fair or right, but it is the right of the Israeli government. The ones in this case are on a "list" of some sort, probably not unlike the list that the US and other countries have.

[breakaleg]

8. It's nice to know they don't bother to hide whitewash their

policies towards Palestinians. At least they know where they stand.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. Much like the Saudis.

It is an ugly policy, but it is their national right, so to speak, just like SA.

[breakaleg]

Israel can do whatever it wants. But when it's bankrolled by the US

then there's a price that comes with that. Just like there is a price that comes with calling itself a democracy.

It means their actions are subject to criticism of the international community. And at some point, the US will realize they can no longer afford to allow Israel to run amok like it has been and the money will either dry up, or Israel will have to yield to outside pressure to get their policies in line.

[Tom Joad]

11. Strange claim... bankroll Israel, you have no right to criticize.

Not even how it treats ordinary US citizens.
Just not logical.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. It has nothing to do with money or being a democracy.

There are plenty of countries that deny entry to a variety of people for a variety of reasons. It doesn't make it right. What I do find interesting is that because money goes to Israel you feel you have the right to dictate Israeli policy.

[Tom Joad]

12. Saudis restrict who can enter the West Bank?

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Yes. That is what was meant.

:eyes:

[Tom Joad]

17. Is the West Bank part of Israel?

[Behind the Aegis]

18. It is under occupation.

Israel is responsible for it.

[Englander]

31. Apartheid is, as apartheid does.

I think we've hit the trifecta this week, racist policies in the OPT, racist ambassadors in the
Israeli diplomatic service, & (most likely) racist politicians in the Israeli govt.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

41. That's completely irrelevant.

If you want to discuss the rights & wrongs of UK immigration policy, try here;

State & Country Forums » Country: United Kingdom
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=191

And please do not, in the future, make any reference to my nationality, it doesn't have any bearing
on the subjects discussed, & I find the interest in my nationality to be creepy, frankly. Focus on
the subject at hand, the discriminatory policies of the occupying powers in the West Bank.

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Not irrelevant.

It was showing that sovereign nations make their own decisions, right or wrong.

I find this very odd:
"And please do not, in the future, make any reference to my nationality, it doesn't have any bearing
on the subjects discussed, & I find the interest in my nationality to be creepy, frankly." However, I will do my best, Englander!

[Tom Joad]

10. So you are saying that Israel has sovereignity over the West Bank?

Israel is the "decider"?
Where is this occupation ruled legal?

And all this talk about how Palestinians should concentrate about building up their own economy... how can they do that? They do not make decisions, ISRAEL DECIDES who comes, who goes, what gets exported, what gets imported.

The people who are trying to enter the West Bank (sometimes only to visit) many are not even political, and certainly have no ties to terror.

So why is Israel treating US citizens like shit?

[Behind the Aegis]

16. Israel occupies the West Bank.

It is responsible for it. That would include who comes in and goes out.

[Tom Joad]

19. So Israel is responsible to make sure that its people

have enough food and shelter, right, as per the Geneva Convention.

If the Palestine Authority does not have the power to decide such basic things as who goes in and out, then how can it be held responsible for creating a viable economy?

[Behind the Aegis]

20. There is a food shortage in the WB?

This is news to me.

Has for the PA, apparently they aren't worried about a viable economy, just who will rule.

[Tom Joad]

23. I am sure it is news to you. I have not seen much evidence you

know anything about what is happening in the West Bank, and the economic crisis there.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. Economic crisis is not a food shortage.

I am well aware of many things happening there, including the esclating in-fighting of the PA, though it is more in play in Gaza.

[Tom Joad]

34. Many children are malnourished. It's the Dov Weissglas "Diet Plan"

Collective Punishment for voting incorrectly.

What kind of government punihses a people by letting them go hungry?

The United States did this too, in Iraq. Sanctions killed hundreds of thousands.
US and Israel, so much alike.

[IntiRaymi]

47. Your arrogance is astounding.

This is the essence of israeli racism.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. As is yours.

[Tom Joad]

13. If Israel decided to move the Palestinian inhabitants and push

them into Jordan, is that their "sovereign" right as well?
Avigdor Lieberman may do this someday. I wonder what PSU-types will say then.

[Englander]

26. I'd like to think that the folks at you-know-where would protest.

If such a scenario were to unfold, if 'transfer' were to happen, but I have serious doubts that it
would be explained, as just another eg of Israel's right to self-defense. I'd like to think that
the analytical skills of folks are such that they're able to see ethnic cleansing, or war crimes
when they are so self-evidently happening or were to happen, but after seeing what the spin is
regarding the outrages in Lebanon/Gaza, I'm not so sure that there would be any protest at
you-know-where.

[Behind the Aegis]

29. .

:eyes:

So more propaganda? We have moved from allowing people into areas to "ethnic cleansing?" You are without shame...actually, you are without logic.

[Englander]

25. No, that's not correct.

And I find the severe lack of empathy/understanding that's evident in that post quite disturbing,
personally. The Israeli occupying powers don't have the right to deny access to Palestinian-Americans
to enter the OPT, & they certainly don't have the right to deny them access based on their ethnicity.
The actions of the Israelis are so blatant, & so self-defeating, that the US State Dept has been
forced to lodge 'a vigorous protest' with the Israeli authorities over this errant behaviour.

[Behind the Aegis]

28. yes they do.

While under occupation, Israel can determine who can and cannot enter the OT. You can't have it both ways. You can't expect Israel to provide food and other things, then deny their "right" to determine who comes in and out of the OT. If you expect Israel to be a "protectorate" of the OT, then you have to accept that they can determine who comes in to the area. Once they no longer are an occupying force, then they will have no claim to who can come and go in the WB (Palestine).

[Englander]

30. So, you actually support this?

No surprises there.

And please provide any actual, factual, or even-slightly-objective source to the claims made, because
'I say so' isn't sufficient.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

40. *sigh*.

Englander;

The Israeli occupying powers don't have the right to deny access to Palestinian-Americans
to enter the OPT, & they certainly don't have the right to deny them access based on their ethnicity.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=151515&mesg_id=151568

Response;

yes they do. While under occupation, Israel can determine who can and cannot enter the OT. You can't have it both ways. You can't expect Israel to provide food and other things, then deny their "right" to determine who comes in and out of the OT. If you expect Israel to be a "protectorate" of the OT, then you have to accept that they can determine who comes in to the area. Once they no longer are an occupying force, then they will have no claim to who can come and go in the WB (Palestine).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=151515&mesg_id=151571

Honestly, do you even read any of your own posts?

[Tom Joad]

35. Israel is NOT providing food. It has placed the Palestinians on a diet

Didn't you get the memo?
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=9785

[Behind the Aegis]

37. n/c

[ProgressiveMuslim]

55. It's clear.

Israel isn't interested in peace.

They want only "militants" left so there is no one left to talk to.

My DH is Gazan. We met and married there. Returned to the States. DH has PhD in development-related field that he earned here in the USA.

We returned to Palestine in 1995. After 2 years, increasing restrictions made it impossible for my DH to stay in the WB. Forget that he was a university professor, western educated, politically moderate and a development expert.

He had to sneak around check points like a common criminal, b/c the Israeli gov't wouldn't give him permission to be out of Gaza legally. Nor could I as an American ever get a work permit.

They made it IMPOSSIBLE for us to live there. We ended up coming back to the US in 1997.

Bottom line: Israel should roll out the red carpet for educated moderates who want democracy and rule of law to return. Instead they seek to make it impossible.

Why is that?

Israel isn't interested in peace.

[Tom Joad]

21. The prison authorities in Jerusalem decide who is able to visit

the prisoners (otherwise known as the 2.25 million residents) of the West Bank.

[Behind the Aegis]

22. propaganda hyperbole

[Englander]

32. US: Israel discriminating against Americans

The discrimination's so blatant that Condi's forced to intervene;

Secretary of State Rice instructs State Department to file official complaint against Israel, saying country caused problems for US citizens of Palestinian origin and limited their entry, exit of territories

Itamar Eichner
Published: 10.18.06, 09:08

The US State Department filed an official complaint against the Israeli government Tuesday at the Israeli Embassy in Washington, saying that Israel caused problems for American citizens of Palestinian origin and limited their entry and exit of the territories.

The complaint was filed following instructions from US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice herself. American sources claimed Israel
implemented a new and deliberate policy that discriminated against American citizens.

The wave of complaints on the matter began in April 2006. Many of the complainants were wealthy American citizens of Palestinian origin who responded to calls of the American government to assist in the rebuilding of the Palestinian Authority and to invest in its economy.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3316418,00.html

[Tom Joad]

33. Right. Calls are being made to the State Dept,

and the State Dept insists that it has brought it up with the highest level of the Israeli govt. If they really insist on action (and promise consequences for the continued discrimination) is another thing. But this is something we cannot condone.

Calls are being made to Senators as well. Even those that support Israeli policies are not likely to look at mistreating US citizens very well.

[Tom Joad]

39. Relevant Website --- Right To Enter.

Some may disagree with the premise of this website. It assumes that Palestinians have rights that Israel does not have the right to take away. "Inalienable rights" -- where do they get that stuff?
Its here:
http://www.righttoenter.ps

Preamble

The Palestinian people have lived under Israeli military occupation for over 39 years. Their occupation is not only one of the longest standing in contemporary world history, but has also been distinguished by an incredible amount of repressive creativity. Israel has employed an ever increasing array of means and ways to oppress Palestinian's basic human rights while maintaining a level of discrimination that, if applied anywhere else in the world, would shock the world into action.

The most recent addition to Israel's "Matrix of Controls" is to deny Palestinians and foreign nationals that do not hold an Israeli-issued Palestinian I.D. entry into, or residence in, Palestine. The results are catastrophic - families are being separated, investors are exiting the country, educators are unable to reach their schools and universities, students' education is being disrupted, and elderly are being left without caretakers, just to state some of the ramifications of such a policy. This undeclared Israeli policy of 'denying entry' is currently in effect and can only be attributed to the Israeli Government's continued actions of unilateralism which defies International and Humanitarian Law, agreements previously signed and witnessed by international parties, Israel's own legal system's decisions, as well as sheer common sense.

Palestinians have inalienable rights that cannot be ignored

The irony of this policy is horrific! Denying Palestinians access to their family structures and human resources, while the international community -- Israel included -- is demanding of Palestinians to create the most democratic, modern, transparent, accountable and productive society in the region, is not only a recipe for failure, but one that will only embroil more Palestinians to fall into even a despair deeper than what their reality has already created.

Development is a human right. A right to education requires students, teachers and professors be in Palestine! A right to economic development requires entrepreneurs, investors, managers, employees, suppliers, consultants, and consumers be in Palestine! A right to social order and wellbeing requires families be united, not separated! The ultimate resolution to the ongoing conflict is the complete end to the Israeli military occupation, once and for all -- not a unilateral redeployment, and not a halfcooked discriminatory entry policy. This would mean that

· Palestinians have sovereign control over their agreed borders;

· the recognized population registry belongs to the Palestinians themselves, not to the occupiers;
more....

[Tom Joad]

44. Israel Committee for Residency Rights -- something positive being done

When: Monday, 23rd October 2006 at 19:00 pm
Where: Daila Club
4 Shlomtzion Ha Malka Str.
West Jerusalem

In recent years, the Israeli government has begun the implementation of a rigid and cruel policy of denying entry visa to Palestinians and their spouses who carry foreign passports. Consequently, for whatever reasons, they are denied residency rights in the Occupied Territories. These people have been living on temporary tourist visas and are obliged to go abroad every three months to renew their visas. Those who cannot afford to travel abroad become illegal sojourners and live in perpetual anxiety, which confines them to their homes. But even those who go abroad have no guarantee that they will be allowed to return. Indeed, in recent years, the number denied re-entry has increased dramatically. The result is splitting of families, economic disaster, disruption of studies for children and students, and immense suffering in all walks of life. The number of those directly affected by this policy is estimated by B’tselem to be about 120,000 and together with their families the number of victims reaches hundreds of thousands. It is impossible to avoid drawing the conclusion that what we have before us is a sophisticated form of ethnic cleansing.

Speakers:
Shulamit Aloni, former MK and Minister of Education
Antigona Ashkar, B'stelem: The roots and scope of the "denied entry" phenomenon
Suliman Shahin, The Jerusalem Legal Suport Center Legal aspects of the denied entry cases
Yossi Wolfson, Ha Moked

On behalf of the ICRR: Prof. Aharon Eviatar (Prof Emeritus, TAU )

[eyl]

45. That's rather hypocritical

given the number of Israelis who were refused entry to the US (since 9/11) becaused, decades ago, they happened to have been born in Iran or an Arab country (mind you, we're talking about people who immigrated to Israel when they were in single digits, not people who immigrated recently).

[Tom Joad]

46. You have documentation of this?

[eyl]

49. Not online, as far as I can find

but there were numerous news reports on the issue a few years ago (there are presumably stories in the Haaretz and JPost archives, but those are pay-only), and I also know someone this happened to.

In addition, a Google search will bring up perhaps the most famous case of this happening - then-Minister Shaul Mofaz was denied entry to the US (this was in 2002, IIRC) because he was Iranian born, and it took direct Foreign Ministry intervention to clear it up.

[Tom Joad]

50. I think Israel protested this. Shaul Mofaz was eventually allowed

entry.

Thanks for bringing this up. It certainly is an example where a foreign country, in this case, Israel, protested the unfair and really stupid visa policies that restricted their citizens.

All the more reason the US should step up pressure (and we US citizens should make sure they do) to demand that US citizens be treated fairly. The restrictions seem to not apply to individuals, but to nearly all Palestinian-Americans. Just plain discrimination.

[eyl]

51. He was eventually allowed entry

because he was a member of the government.

More plebian sorts weren't as fortunate.

[pelsar]

52. the principle remains...

either one agrees with the idea that states have a right to restrict entry to those who arent its citizens or they dont.

if they dont....well then i would suggest that one is going for a stateless society (which is probably not within human nature at this point)....if its accepted, then israel is doing nothing that Britan, England, Spain, US and every other country on this earth does......

condeming israel for following a standard that all states follow sounds rather pathetic.....

[Tom Joad]

53. It is not "pathetic" to stand against discrimination.

It is not pathetic or "anti-semitic" to stand for human rights.

I don't think a nation has a right to deny people a right to visit their own homeland.

[breakaleg]

54. The issue isn't whether a nation is allowed to restrict entry to

non-citizens. It's on what basis they are being denied entry. If it turns out it is discriminatory and without basis, then it should be protested.

[Englander]

56. Stricter Policy Splits West Bank Families

By Scott Wilson
Washington Post Foreign Service
Monday, October 23, 2006; A16

RAMALLAH, West Bank -- The last time Adel Samara saw his wife, Enayeh, was the morning in late May when she pulled away from their home in Beit Ur in a taxi bound for the border. Her trips to Jordan had become routine, never lasting more than a few days.

>snip

For decades, Palestinian foreign nationals have entered the West Bank and Gaza Strip on three-month tourist visas, renewing them regularly, because residency cards were difficult to obtain. But in recent months Israel's Interior Ministry has refused in many cases to grant new visas, separating thousands of family members from their relatives inside lands the Jewish state occupied in the 1967 Middle East war.

The tightening has coincided with the rise this year of Hamas, a radical Islamic movement, to head the Palestinian government, which most foreign donors have cut off from economic aid. Palestinian officials and Israeli human rights groups contend the shift will undermine private investment in the territories -- investment the Bush administration is seeking to encourage -- while potentially driving out the professional class most likely to have relatives abroad.

"It is a policy that can only be seen in the context of population control," said Nabeel Kassis, president of Bir Zeit University near this city, who along with 10 other Palestinian university presidents warned in an open letter this month that the policy is depleting faculties, student bodies and exchange programs. "They are taking away a segment of the population that could help most with state-building."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/22/AR2006102200853_pf.html