Beit Hanoun: It was like a Tsunami

[Scurrilous]

57 graves dug for Palestinians killed in IDF Operation Autumn Clouds. Palestinians report hundreds of homes damaged

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3325080,00.html

<snip>

"Israeli forces pulled out of a battered northern Gaza town on Tuesday after their biggest operation in the Palestinian territory in a year, leaving residents to bury their dead.

"This is the worst raid we have ever witnessed," Said Khalil Yazji, a 45-year-old resident and police officer. "The Israeli army has brought destruction into every single street and nearly into every single house. This is the tsunami of Beit Hanoun."

<snip>

"Beit Hanoun’s mayor, a member of the governing Islamic group Hamas, said some 40 homes were destroyed and 400 damaged during the fighting. The local mosque was completely destroyed except for its tower.

A resident of the town, Muhammed Abu Uda said, “Every day of the operation we heard from the media what was happening, because we were closed up in the house, but what we saw this morning doesn’t come close to what we heard on the radio and television.”

"It’s obvious that someone came and deliberately destroyed sidewalks. They destroyed potholes and we are drowning in sewage. There isn’t a home without a bullet hole in it, and that is in the best case – in the worst case the house is partly or completely destroyed," Abu Uda said."

[msmcghee]

1. It's interesting how selective one's pity can be around here.

In the Arab world, if a town is suspected of harboring persons opposed to the current regime - much less overt acts like firing rockets at the regime - the response is typically wholesale slaughter of all the residents of the town. This is actually a custom among Arab regimes going back centuries. Very much like the way Saddam Hussein simple sent deadly chemical filled rockets into those villages in Kurdistan.

If I recall, the only people complaining about that at the time were Kurds. It certainly wasn't seen as anything extraordinary - except later when various factions found they could use the color glossies for propoganda purposes.

Instead of flattening the town with artillery fired from a few miles away, as any brave Arab leader worth his medals would do in a similar situation, Israel places boots on the ground and suffers casualties to try to arrest those who are firing rockets into Israel. And the "poor Palestinians" are pitied for their damaged sidewalks and sewer lines.

Damn those Jews. :sarcasm:

[Tom Joad]

13. Danny Pipes (ADL- friend) supported Saddam's mass slaughter.

So don't talk to us about "arabs do". It is not the Arabs, it is not the Jews (as you so perversely suggest), it is those who support policies of militarism and occupation. To try to frame this as favoring one people over another is just not accurate, but is all too typical. We get the same thing from the freepers when most of us oppose the war in Iraq, as they accuse us of "supporting Arab terrorists over American lives" because we support ending US occupation of Iraq, though for the most part such simplistic jingoism is rightly rejected, at least at DU.

All people must oppose occupation, oppression and instead support liberation. All must support human rights for all.

Why do some isreal supporters want the arming of the bloodiest dictators in the Arab world? Even more importantly, why did the ADL, once rightly regarded as one of the most important civil rights groups in this country, support the likes of Dan Pipes, Bush's appointee to the "United States Institute of Peace", who once spoke out publicly for arming Saddam, with the full knowledge of his record of bloody rule? considering Pipes extremist anti-Arab rhetoric, it was sad day for the pro-Bush ADL.

It just shows how extreme these organizations have become, no longer caring about human rights or liberties, but only protecting the current policy objectives of the Israeli regime.

Copy of lil' Danny Pipes plea for arms for Saddam, from the April 27, 1987 issue of The New Republic
http://www.tomjoad.org/pipes_supportSaddam.pdf Feel free to look it up at your local public library.

[IntiRaymi]

18. That is why this is the I/P Forum.

We talk Israel & Palestine here, you see....because I/P stands for Israel/Palestine.....
:eyes:

[breakaleg]

2. If the damage is as they describe, then it's hard to believe it was

unintentional. Why is there sewage in the streets? And why would they destroy the sidewalks?

[breakaleg]

3. Take a look at the comments at the end of the article...

These people are rejoicing at the damage and destruction and actually calling for more.

Are the Israeli supporters helping their cause with comments like these? They sound a little blood-thirsty.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. So?

Those are unmoderated comments from around the world. They are no more 'blood-thirsty' than the comments over at Ha'aretz from the "other" side.

[Englander]

7. That stuff would be considered 'hate-speech' here.

In the UK, some of those comments would be prosectuable, they'd be considered 'hate-speech'.
Particularly #35, from Robert, in Toronto.

[breakaleg]

11. That was particularly repugnant. nt

[pelsar]

5. its called military vehicles.....

tanks and armored personal carriers are heavier and wider than cars..and the driving is less accurate. Streets/sidwalks with poor foundations will buckle under their weight, which in turn will destroy the sewer/water lines underneath.

i doubt you ever drove a tank or an apc...since you say "its hard to believe it was unintentional"...perhaps if you dont really know you should try asking, maybe some one here could help you (and yes i do have some experience as a tank driver: upgraded T-56s-russian tanks)

[Englander]

6. It's called 'collective punishment'.

The many are forced to suffer for the crimes of a few. The intention is to force the civilian
population to suffer enough that they're be persuaded to stop the 'guerillas' in their midst from
engaging in attacks against the occupying forces. It's a tactic that colonialist/imperialist armies
have used before, what is surprising that this should happen in the 21st century, the age of human
rights, & freedom & democracy.

[pelsar]

8. Its called targeting civilians

The many are forced to suffer for the for the religion and nationality....thats what the kassams are aiming for: killing israelis anywhere and everywhere they can.

give the shooters time to aim and correct their firing and they'll succeed in their targeting....this is something many would like to see.

so and we have the perennial question that tends to "bring the posts to a grinding halt"

your proposal for stopping the kassams?.....(shall i remind you that from the very day israel left gaza, they kept coming without let up)....or you can claim that its the Palestinians right to kill israeli civilians, even those behind the 67 borders...and i shall accept that as a acceptable answer (as i do that of hizballa and hamas an islamic jihad. and al aska brigades and force 17.....)

actually what i'm more surprised as is how pseudo leftist can actually march and promote groups like hizballa and hamas whos agenda mimics that of the taliban (stoning women for being raped?..hanging homosexuals and even those who promote civil rights)
____

and btw my original answer was technical for someone who had no understanding of how tanks move in urban environments.....it seems you also have no idea how they work, hence the topic change.....

[Englander]

9. *sigh*

I wasn't addressing yourself, I was responding to post #2.

Now that DU is at level 4, the 'ignore' function has been switched off, so I can see what was
previously ignored. When normalcy returns, I shall continue with the policy of putting any posters
who make repugnant accusations, who fabricate fantastical fantasies, & who come across as being
'wilfully ignorent' (sic) on permanent ignore.

[pelsar]

10. your addressing no 2 wasnt obvious...

no 2 had in effect a question (based on lack of knowledge) of how tanks and APCs navigate in the relatively narrow streets of Beit Hanon. I assumed that since he had never been there, nor had any experience with tanks (i believe you dont either)...it seemed appropriate to add some relevant information...and i"m sure he appreciated learning about something that he didnt know about.

Putting me on ignore probably a good idea, this way you wont have to disappear when i ask questions that are never answered....or even tried to.....save some embarrassment.

[newyorican]

19. heh

Wed Nov-08-06 03:31 AM
Response to Reply #2 <---seems fairly obvious...

[Tom Joad]

12. The IDF terror machine marches on.

[Scurrilous]

14. $50m to repair Israeli damage

<snip>

"It will take at least $50m to rebuild Beit Hanun in the northern Gaza Strip after an Israeli offensive and a devastating artillery strike there, said Palestinian foreign minister Mahmud Zahar on Sunday.

Zahar told foreign ministers at an emergency Arab League meeting here that the Beit Hanun region was a devastated zone that would need about $50m to rebuild all that was destroyed after the latest Israeli offensive "and to lend urgent and immediate help to the families of the martyrs and the wounded."

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2029221,00.html

[breakaleg]

15. I wish we could make it such that the country who does the damage has to pay

for it. Either directly, or by redirecting money they receive in the form of aid. But ultimately they should foot the bill for reconstruction.

[Scurrilous]

16. This is interesting:

Northern farmers: We'll ask Lebanon for compensation

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3327204,00.html

'Hizbullah abused us for a month, but Israel government and property tax authority have been abusing us for three month,' farmers say

<snip>

"Council heads of communities in the north said Sunday that they would ask the Lebanese government for compensation for damages caused to farmers and private property during the war with Hizbullah, charging that the Israeli government did little to doll out compensations."

<snip>

""Three months passed since the end of the war and it seems that the State of Israel forgot us," Eitan Dudi, the head of the forum for border communities said during an emergency meeting with community leaders.

"That's the first move in the struggle, and if the problem is not solved we intend on striking all schools as of next Sunday and to sever ties with the State of Israel. We will hold a protest in Avivim near the border, a village overlooking Maroun al-Ras, and we will look into the possibility of cutting through the border fence and ask the Lebanese government to care for us, because our country is simply ignoring us."

<snip>

""Hizbullah abused us for a month, but the State of Israel and the property tax authority have been abusing us for three month and there seems to be no end on the horizon. It is absurd to see Hizbullah completing rehabilitating most of the villages damaged in the war in southern Lebanon and here nothing is moving," Davidi said."

[bemildred]

17. LOL. I don't expect that will be too well received in Tel Aviv.

Might just be an attention getting device though.
It should get even better if Hizbullah coughs up some money.