Wanted: A moderate pro-Israel lobby

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"I am a member of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the premier American pro-Israel lobby. AIPAC plays a vital role in bolstering America's alliance with the Jewish state, from galvanizing Congressional backing for U.S. military and economic aid, to marshaling moral and political support for its right to self-defense. But AIPAC has not always defined "support for Israel" the way many American Jews and Israelis do.

AIPAC claims that it champions the policies of the elected Israeli government, whatever they may be. But it does not faithfully live up to this promise: Over the past 20 years, it has supported right-wing governments in Israel wholeheartedly, while being halfhearted, or worse, about the policies of left-wing administrations. And when Israel is ruled from the right, AIPAC's credo makes supporting Israel synonymous with lining up behind policies which many American Jews - and often the other half or more of the Israeli public - think baneful for Israel's quest for peace and security.

Indeed, AIPAC sometimes tries to be more Israeli than the Israeli government, urging American Jews and their elected representatives in Washington to oppose moderate, responsible positions on Israel, while hewing to the hardest line on the Israeli and American Jewish political spectrum."

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[lcordero2]

1. George Soros is currently working on that

Hopefully a lot of lives will be saved.

The govt I hope all go to hell, but I truly feel for the people since they are being held hostage.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[furman]

4. Forsooth your facts regarding military strength are inaccurate

Forsooth, Israel does not have the fourth most powerful military in the world.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/ ranks Israel at 26.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_size_of_armed_forces ranks Israel at 28.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_active_troops ranks Israel at 32.

On all these rankings Egypt and Iran are considerably higher.

http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-military-spending-countries-map.html does not even have Israel in the top 10.
However, Saudi Arabia is ranked 7th and Iran is 9th.

Can you provide links to credible sources for world military strengh that show Israel ranked fourth in any context?


Forsooth, your use of the word "Zionist" in this context can be considered offensive and antisemitic.

[leveymg]

3. And a moderate Israeli government to go with it.

They have to dance together, or else it's just gilding the lilly.

[nicoll]

5. do you really want peace

The American Jewish lobby in Washington is very strong, but will never bring peace to the Middle East because they will not address the Problem of the Palestinian people not having a state of their own. This is not one of those thing that will go away in time. The juggling act you should be looking for is a viable Palestinian state along side Israel within the 26,990sq km of land for Israel to finally find peace and security for Israel.

The Golan heights gives Israel security against Syria and Lebanon. The Golan Heights was annexed by Israel in the early eighties, but this was never recognized by the international community and Syria in particular. Israel needs to keep the Golan Heights and not only that but have Syria to accept it as part of Israel. This is so important for Israeli security because maybe then Syria might stop funding Hezbolhah in Lebanon. How could Israel get the Syrians to do this? It is all about give and take.

If Israel was to give land to the Palestinians to allow the formation of a Palestinian state from the unification of the West Bank and Gaza Strip then it could obtain security with Syria and Lebanon. A unified and newly formed Palestine would have a better chance of being politically stable and economically viable.

West Bank (5860) + Gaza Strip (360) + unification land (5000) giving a total of just over 10,000sq km of land.

This would still leave Israel with 20770 + 1250 (Golan Heights) - 5000 = 17,020sq km of land

Security and a peaceful solution to the conflict are more important than the size of Israel.

Every day the Palestinian people have no state they are like a sponge to extremists.

[msmcghee]

6. You have overlooked one simple fact.

Those who make the decisions in the PT have stated that their mission in life is the destruction of Israel and all the Jews who live there.

They have never once stated that if some accommodation to land issues were resolved they could see their way to peaceful coexistence with Israel.

Why don't you believe them?

[sabbat hunter]

9. so israel

would have to give up the OT, the golan heights, PLUS Israeli land?


what would israel get in return? how will it be compensated for this loss of land?

[Tom Joad]

7. gotta stop aipac. If you want peace in the Middle East.

www.stopAIPAC.org

John Walsh:
"My fellow American," Howard Friedman, President of AIPAC, begins his letter of July 30 to friends and supporters of AIPAC, "Look what you've done"! After warning that "Israel is fighting a pivotal war for its life," by which he means Israel's wanton slaughter and all-out destruction in Lebanon, Friedman condemns "the expected chorus of international condemnation of Israel's actions" and Europe's call for "a cease-fire immediately." Then he exults: "only ONE nation in the world came out and flatly declared: Let Israel finish the job. . That nation is the United States of America--and the reason it had such a clear, unambiguous view of the situation is YOU and the rest of America Jewry." (All emphases in the original here and below.) Here I must take issue with President Friedman since I bet that most Jewish Americans, in contrast to the AIPAC crowd, were horrified by the slaughter in Lebanon. In fact if anyone other than President Friedman wrote this, he would be accused of fabricating a Jewish plot and labeled a nutty conspiracy theorist and scurrilous anti-Semite.)

Read all about it here:
http://www.stopaipac.org/aipaclebanon.htm

aipac is an extremist lobby. While folks can talk about free speech (yes, political extremists, including Rightists, have the right to free speech), the rest of us have that same right. That means we can raise our voices in condemnation of the militarism aipac champions.

[Tom Joad]

8. Best alternative to aipac. U.S. Campaign to End the Occupation

http://www.endtheoccupation.org/

The US Campaign is a diverse coalition working for freedom from occupation and equal rights for all by challenging US policy towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The Campaign is based on human rights and international law, providing a non-sectarian framework for everyone who supports its Call to Action. Its strategy is to inform, educate, and mobilize the public so as to change the US role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to support peace, justice, human rights, and international law.

CALL TO ACTION

Our Principles and Purpose

* We stand for freedom from occupation, and equal rights for all. International law guarantees these human rights, including the right to exist in peace and security.

* We aim to change those U.S. policies that sustain Israel's 37-year occupation of the Palestinian West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, and deny equal rights for all.

Our Goals

* We will inform, educate, and mobilize the public regarding the U.S. Government's current as well as potential role in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

* We seek to change such policies as the billions of U.S. military and economic aid dollars provided despite Israel’s violations of U.S. and international law.

* We call for the U.S. to work within the U.N. to implement a just and lasting peace.