Cease the fire in the West Bank, too

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"The developments of the last few days are liable to arouse hope. The agreement on a cease-fire in the Gaza Strip, together with the prime minister's impressive speech in Sde Boker, could generate a new atmosphere in Israel's relations with the Palestinians - an atmosphere that would enable the start of serious negotiations between the parties. Israel must not waste this rare window of opportunity.

Against this backdrop, it is difficult to understand the opposition of certain Israel Defense Forces officers, and the reservations expressed yesterday by the defense minister, with regard to an expansion of the cease-fire to the West Bank as well - especially given the Palestinians' declarations that they would be interested in expanding the cease-fire.

The cease-fire will be able to take hold only if it applies to both the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. It is impossible to separate what happens in these two places: Every military operation in the West Bank is liable to draw a response from Gaza, and vice versa. Therefore, the IDF's predawn operation in Qabatiyah on Monday, a day after the cease-fire in Gaza took effect - an operation that resulted in the deaths of a Popular Resistance Committees operative and a 55-year-old woman - was harmful and unnecessary. Anyone who wants to give the cease-fire a chance must impose maximum restraint on himself.

Israel should therefore declare it seeks a total cease-fire, in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, and the IDF should be ordered to hold its fire in both areas, if the Palestinians commit to a similar move. The fact, reported yesterday, that the IDF has already hastened to revise its new rules of engagement in the Gaza Strip in order to once again permit soldiers to open fire on Qassam rocket launchers will also not serve the efforts to consolidate the cease-fire. The Palestinians must be given a real opportunity to work to stop the Qassam fire. Given their complex situation, this cannot be done overnight."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/793995.html

[Behind the Aegis]

1. Oh, please.

Was this editorial written by Hamas?! Yes, let's just demand that Israel do nothing, just sit on their hands and wait patiently for the PA to get their shit together, which by the editorial's own wording, "cannot be done overnight."

[Scurrilous]

2. Sources: Rice will ask Olmert to lift roadblocks in West Bank

<snip>

"American Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice will come to Jerusalem Thursday morning and meet Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. Before this, Rice will visit Jericho, where she will meet Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas.

Rice's visit to Jerusalem is meant to show American support for the new negotiating process, official sources say. That began with the cease-fire, and should presumably lead to setting up a Palestinian national unity government.

In the next stage, the U.S. is expected to help jump-start the political negotiations between Israel and the PA.

After the meeting with PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas in Jericho Thursday, Jerusalem sources say they expect Rice to ask Olmert to help Abbas by alleviating the siege on the Gaza Strip and removing non-essential roadblocks in the West Bank.

Palestinian sources said Rice is expected to ask Abbas and Israel to expand the cease-fire to the West Bank. They will also discuss implementing the border passes agreement that was signed by the U.S., Israel and the PA after Israel's pullout from Gaza."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/794544.html

[Violet_Crumble]

3. I have a question about the ceasefire...

If the ceasefire only applies to Gaza, and I'm thinking that's how Israel sees it as it has killed militants in the West Bank since the ceasefire was announced, why doesn't that also apply to Palestinian militant groups as well? If they were to fire rockets (note to fend of topic diverting attempts: I'm aware that currently there are rockets being fired from Gaza..just thought I'd mention that!) or send suicide bombers from the West Bank, would Israel still think the ceasefire only applies to Gaza?

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Kick....

Just in case anyone who wants to give this one a try missed seeing it...

[pelsar]

5. the cease fire....

is only in gaza....or it was supposed to be......

the westbank was not a part of the negotiations.....the fact that the westbank "actions" (the fighting is still going on as usual) is being used as an excuse for the firing of rockets from gaza is no more than that....an excuse by the palestenains.



israel for its part in an attempt to keep the pseudo cease fire in gaza alive has said it will limit the westbank operations (assuming of course that the palestenains dont succeed in killing "too many israelis).

[Violet_Crumble]

6. Thanks, but you didn't answer my question...

If Israel sees its westbank "actions" as not being part of the ceasefire, then why wouldn't it be considered okay for rockets and suicide bombers to be sent from the West Bank rather than Israel? I have this very strong suspicion that if that were to happen that'd be very swiftly labelled a violation of the ceasefire...

btw, Israel has now violated the ceasefire as well, just in case it hasn't been noticed or is being ignored...

[Behind the Aegis]

7. "Israel has now violated the ceasefire as well"

when?

On edit: Your "questions" were hypotheticals, as were your answers.

[pelsar]

8. there is no cease fire in the westbank....

the palestenians are attempting to send bombers from the westbank.....one was caught and israel didnt say anything about any ceasefire violation.

that i believe answers the question.

[cali]

9. I certainly wouldn't count on that

There are a fair number of people here who either don't understand the ceasefire agreement, or are determined to ignore what that agreement is.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. I know there's no cease-fire in the WB, pelsar. That's what I've been saying in my past two posts...

The reason I said that Israel has violated the ceasefire is because of the reports of Israel firing on Palestinian fishing boats. But then again maybe being in the water doesn't fall into the category of being in Gaza? Back to my question about the West Bank, though, which you've attempted to answer by saying what I asked about has happened and Israel hasn't seen it as a ceasefire violation. I haven't seen anything in the media about that which of course doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but could you give me a link to a report on it and what Israel's reaction has been?

Another thing. People in this forum were complaining when the ceasefire idea first came up as they said it only covered rocket attacks and not suicide bombings so that would have made it a fake ceasefire. With the West Bank not included and Israel killing Palestinians there, which of course is going to be extremely provocative when its militants belonging to groups that are involved in the ceasefire in Gaza, it seems just as much a fake ceasefire as what posters here were objecting to when the proposal was a stop to rocket attacks but other forms of attack weren't mentioned...

[pelsar]

11. its was just a news report...

pipe bomb found in kid trying to get through a checkpoint....happens almost every other day here.....the newspapers dont even write it up as theres nothing to write up (its only a few lines).

there was no israeli govt reaction......its simply "business as usual" on the westbank.


___________________________________
as far as the "cease fire goes........the negotiations by both govts which took place were specfic to the gaza. Whether or not "jihadnikim A or B" agree is not relevant, as the govts agreed and that and only that is relevant.(it is they who must implement their own decisions).

the actual cease fire was never really implemented...the rockets never stopped, it was infact a one sided ceasation of hostitlies by israel, with the palestenian reaction being what it was.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. Sorry, but yr not a credible source, pelsar...

I've just been reading posts from you and others who demand CREDIBLE!!!! sources or else they don't believe something happened, so I'm now jumping on the bandwagon. Give me a credible source (eg Ha'aretz, NYT...or even the Guardian!). Otherwise it's unfounded gossip and as such should be called a lie and discarded...

Also I find yr claim that the ceasefire was one-sided after stating that the only ones responsible were both govts totally absurd. Were those thousands of Palestinian security people being sent out to try to stop the rockets a figment of our collective imaginations?

[pelsar]

13. your choice.....

there were over 15,000 PA security people in the field in gaza...yet rockets were still fired......It was the PA responsablity to stop them, they didnt/couldnt/chose not to...whatever their reasons were.

and the IDF didnt respond for the first few days and we have a possibe incident with the navy, rockets still fly, IDF response?...nothing.....thats a pretty one sided cease fire


as far as catching bombers in the westbank....pipe bombs etc....your choice whether to believe it or not.....happens a lot...my sources are partly the hebrew news/TV, partly the soldiers out there who are the kids of my friends and relatives or others that i meet or know. More so, incidents i was involved in never made it into the news.....

as far as other credible sources....for those who have been here, i have in fact never questioned their experiences....for the others, it seems that were stuck with the news outlets

[Violet_Crumble]

14. I'm using logic...

there were over 15,000 PA security people in the field in gaza...yet rockets were still fired......It was the PA responsablity to stop them, they didnt/couldnt/chose not to...whatever their reasons were.

I see. So I take it that you use the same logic and think that because it's Israel's responsibility to stop their settlers from assaulting and harming Palestinians that you also turn that into just shoving blame onto them and acting as though they weren't involved in doing anything to try to stop these sorts of attacks?

and the IDF didnt respond for the first few days and we have a possibe incident with the navy, rockets still fly, IDF response?...nothing.....thats a pretty one sided cease fire

That's right. They didn't respond for the first few days. But yr claim of it being one-sided is ridiculous and deliberately ignores the fact that Hamas have not only said they'll take action against those who are firing rockets but have sent out soldiers out to try to stop them...


as far as catching bombers in the westbank....pipe bombs etc....your choice whether to believe it or not.....happens a lot...my sources are partly the news partly the soldiers out there who are the kids of my friends and relatives. More so, incidents i was involved in never made it into the news.....

as far as other credible sources....for those who have been here, i have in fact never questioned their experiences....for the others, it seems that were stuck with the news outlets

Sorry, but after seeing you demanding links to things in another thread* and complaining about sources, putting yrself and what you claim you saw on the news up as a source isn't good enough. Especially considering the very strong bias involved and the fact that anecdotal stories are so easy to make up. btw, you haven't been involved in any incidents since the ceasefire started, seeing yr a reserve and yr obviously not on duty...

* http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=157603&mesg_id=157764
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=157603&mesg_id=157879