Gaza group warns women to cover heads

[oberliner]

GAZA CITY, Gaza, Dec. 3 (UPI) -- A Palestinian group has warned Palestinian women in Gaza that they must wear head coverings or be subject to attacks by the group.

The group, Just Swords of Islam, directed its warning to female students at universities and colleges who do not wear hijab head coverings according to Islamic tradition, the Jerusalem Post said Sunday. The group said followers in Gaza City recently threw acid in the face of a young woman they said was dressed "immodestly."

Just Swords of Islam said it would show "no mercy on any woman who violates the traditions of Islam and who also hangs out in Internet cafes."

In pamphlets distributed in several places in Gaza, the group claimed responsibility for attacks on 12 Internet cafes and music shops in different parts of the area.

http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/view.php?StoryID=20061203-080822-1412r

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Insanity feeds on itself

as does hate. These people have to have someone to hate and to maim--this sickness is not religion, it is insanity.

[bemildred]

2. Someone needs to slap these silly shits around.

"traditions of Islam" my ass. Mercy is very much within the traditions of Islam, and abuse of women is not.

[Scurrilous]

7. Fanaticism not limited to Gaza:

J’lem: Bleach war against ‘immodest’ women (10.25.06)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3319405,00.html

Residents of haredi neighborhood claim attacks by religious fanatics battling against ‘promiscuity’ of clothing stores and shoppers; victim: This is Bitul Torah. Don’t they have anything better to do than look at women and determine whether they are modest or not?

<snip>

"More and more women in Jerusalem’s Geula neighborhood have been complaining of being sprayed with a bleach mix.

The attacks mark an escalation of the religious fanatics’ battle against what they refer to as the ‘promiscuity’ on the haredi streets and the infiltration of ‘fashion’ that often times does not correspond with the strict dress codes in the community."

<snip>

"A vendor at one of the local clothing stores said she felt something wet dripping on her shirt as she was walking down the street. At first she thought someone poured water over her, but later realized that she had been sprayed with bleach.

“This is Bitul Torah (wasting time that could be spent on Torah study), “she said. “Don’t they have anything else to do but look at women and determine whether they are modest or not? I thought we should perhaps organize a demonstration and declare, ‘we are modest and do not want to be burned,’ but obviously this did not materialize.”

Until recently the religious zealots focused their battle against the clothing stores: Last week yeshiva students arrived at a women’s clothing store on Amos Street and destroyed thousands of shekels worth of merchandise with bleach. The store was shut down immediately and a men’s clothing store was set up in its place.

About six months ago a store from the same chain was set ablaze in Bnei Brak."

[cali]

8. Awkward comparison there, but keep trying.

Israel is a state which recognizes gay marriage. It is a socially liberal state. There really is no comparison here.

[Scurrilous]

9. It is awkward isn't it...

...that this type of behavior exists in a socially liberal state.


Operation 'cover up'(11.17.06)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3329074,00.html

Jerusalem pride parade struggle ends, new struggle begins against tight clothing. Ultra-Orthodox rabbis to hold ‘modesty’ rally Saturday

<snip>

"After the struggle against the recent pride parade in Jerusalem, ultra-Orthodox rabbis have marked their next target: The tight lycra shirts and short skirts. For this purpose, some of the most important rabbis are set to convene at a rally Saturday night in a bid to "safeguard modesty."

Last year, the limits of modesty were broken in the Orthodox community, when young Orthodox girls began visiting shopping malls and buying fashionable clothing from popular chain stores such as Castro and Zara – too fashionable if you ask the rabbis."

<snip>

"In order to fight the practice, several measures have been taken such as the burning of clothing stores and spraying bleach on passersby on Jerusalem’s streets. In contrast, seminary rabbis and administrators decided to have female students sign a new modesty regulations contract.

The contract would bind each student to wear extra thick stockings, a shirt long enough that even bending down would not rise above the skirt, a skirt that would completely cover the knees. In addition, all lycra shirts would be prohibited.

In order to ensure that the public follow these regulations, top rabbis are expected to meet Saturday at the Tamir Hall in Jerusalem to clearly state the new regulations."

[cali]

10. LOL. Try again.

do we have gay marriage here in the US? Why no, except for MA. In fact we have stupid referendum after stupid referendum, and our own homegrown nuts like Phelps. And of course, there's such support for gays and lesbians in the WB and Gaza! As I said, try again. This sure doesn't make your case.

[pelsar]

12. but you have to love the attempts...

attempting to compare israels liberal democracy with the chaotic, half theocratic society in gaza is really grasping at straws, but it is significant in how facts can be ignored in the attempt.....anything goes when it comes to israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. But that's not what the comparison was...

The comparison was of one group of religious extremists to another group of religious extremists. Whether or not they live in a liberal democracy is totally irrelevent to the fact that no matter where they are religious extremists are all pretty much the same and it's not confined to one ethnicity as some would have people believe...

[eyl]

23. Yeah, but there's another difference

which everyone seems to mix.

The haredi groups, objectionable as their actions are, are trying to enforce their modesty codes in their own neighborhoods. The Islamic group cited in the OP is trying to do so throughout Gaza.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. I could think of many more irrelevent differences...

..but that's what all those differences are - irrelevent. A religious freak who tries to enforce their modesty codes in their own neighbourhood while others set to work in their own neigbhourhoods are every bit as objectionable as a religious freak who's part of a tighter group who tries to enforce it on a bunch of neighbourhoods....

[eyl]

25. It's relevent

not in how objectionable it is, but in terms of the overall impact of their actions.

[Scurrilous]

34. Knesset okays preliminary reading to revoke gay marriage ruling

<snip>

"Two weeks after the High Court of Justice issued a precedent-setting ruling authorizing five gay couples married abroad to be registered legally in Israel, the Knesset plenum on Wednesday approved in a preliminary hearing a bill to rescind the court's ruling.

The bill, which was initiated by MK Michael Eitan and approved in accelerated proceedings by a majority of 33-31, would prohibit the Population Registry from recognizing the unions until the Knesset has issued legislation approving same-sex marriages. The bill calls for a status quo on the issue, considering that Israel does not recognize homosexual marriages.

All MKs from Likud, Shas, Yisrael Beiteinu, United Torah Judaism, National Union - National Religious Party, and three MKs from Kadima voted in favor of the proposal. Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and Minister Meir Sheetrit were among those who opposed rescinding the ruling."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/797821.html

[bemildred]

11. Doesn't seem to be an ethnic trait, no.

Or the property of any particular religion or political entity. Nonetheless, it is a very stupid, offensive, and counterproductive sort of activity, whether carried out by Arabs, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Confucians, or whomever. Women are people, and ought to enjoy the same rights and personal autonomy as men do, and it is a cultural and political folly to not defend those rights of women.

[donsu]

3. "Just Swords of Islam" what a crock

how come sane Palestinian men aren't stopping them?

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pelsar]

5. the poor palestenians...

they seem to get it "from all ends".....the israelis leave gaza, they get a cease fire and within a few days the next "ugly thing" rears its head.....and "sticks it to them"....

[msmcghee]

6. When . .

. . cowards and bullies are deprived of their favorite target they sometimes have to find the next best option.

They are getting a lot of pressure to stop firing rockets at innocent civilians in Israel - so now some of them have resorted to throwing acid at their own Palestinian women - at least those who are insufficiently pious. Of course, like the Israeli school kids, these women are similarly unable to defend themselves and offer no threat in return.

Will this also be excused as the only option for resistance that the cruel Israeli apartheid regime has left them?

[pelsar]

13. of this i have no doubt

with little training for anything, few jobs to produce, a hieracrachy that promotes that the most violence prone go to the top of the social pyramid, its hardly a surprise that with israel gone they turn on themselves....

as the Hamas spokesmen put it so bluntly:

"Gaza is suffering under the yoke of anarchy and the sword of thugs. We've been attacked by the bacteria of stupidity and don't know where we're headed."

throw in religious fanaticism (as in hamas) and you get an incredble mix that shows up in the likes of Iran and in the Taliban. And if that is where they are headed, I truly feel sorry of the citizen palestenian. Not only will his life be filled with moral squads checking up on "him" barging in the night to remove the "sinners", but as we've seen with some of the Intls alreadys kicked out, and the ISM doesnt write about the rights of the palestenains within gaza, the gaza blogs also dont mention the internal chaos.....

infact, except for hamas spokesman nobody seems to "give a shit" about the citizen palesetine under palestenian rule, no matter how cruel or chaotic and anarchic it can get. Its not so much that i am surprised, but the hypocrasy always strikes me, as the cry for "human rights" seems to become a whimper when its the palestenains who are ignoring basic human rights to other palestenains.

[breakaleg]

14. you are getting a lot of mileage out of that one statement.

[pelsar]

16. they're rare in english

whereas the israeli news interviews some palestenains and we have more info in the hebrew press....the intl/english press has very little. Every so often theres a translation from a local paper about the internal problems that makes it way to english papers..but thats all thats acceptable around here.

hence the strong statements by hamas, which are clear, should be remembered (and it does make blaming israel for the problems in gaza kinda hard when the hamas spokesman claims otherwise).

Though i was amused when one reaction was that: his opinions are just his own opinions and dont reflect hamas stand...i thought that was rather amusing given his job....but hey, if we cant blame israel whats left?

[Violet_Crumble]

18. I'm curious as to why yr interpreting his statement the way you are...

..which is to interpret it as absolving Israel of any blame. What I liked about his statement was that he moved above the black and white all blame must be placed on the other side that is way too prevalent in this conflict, yet reading his statement in the context of yr posts I'm left with the incorrect vision of him saying that Israel wasn't to blame for anything...

[pelsar]

20. hes blaming the internal social chaos....

where it belongs...on the palestenains themselves.......hes not forgetting about israel, its just not relevant when it comes to their internal social structure...and hes 100% right. (he wants to remove israel from the face of the earth....)

things like blaming israel for increased palestenain wife beating (a report by the UN) is simply absurd, yet so many bought in to that. (not mentioned here, but just an example).

The only way anyone, be it an individual or society starts to fix things is taking that very first step which is to stop blaming the "other" for ones problems...hes doing exactly that, and i think its great. (for them, for israel for me and for those who like to blame israel for all of the palestenian problems...-but the last one, though its the "sweetest" is actually the least important)

[Violet_Crumble]

22. No, that's incorrect. I just went and found the article he was quoted in

This is what he actually said: '"Anarchy, wanton killing, land steeling, thuggery … is the occupation responsible for all?," he asked, saying that the Palestinians should stop espousing conspiracy theories which "limit our thinking." '

The only way anyone, be it an individual or society starts to fix things is taking that very first step which is to stop blaming the "other" for ones problems...

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean doing a complete swing and blaming themselves for everything either...

on edit: forgot to add the link to the article...

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3296410,00.html

[pelsar]

26. he is VERY Clear...

We didn't succeed in preserving the victory of liberating Gaza. 500 people died in the Strip since the withdrawal, as opposed to 3-4 Israelis killed by rockets. The reality in Gaza today is one of neglect, sadness, and failure. When someone errs we are scared to criticize him to avoid being accused of being against the resistance," Hamad wrote.

------

Hamad appeals to leaders of Palestinian factions saying that resistance against Israel is worthless when "the land is full with anarchy, corruption, thuggery, and gang killings. Isn't building the homeland part of the resistance?"

it couldnt be said clearer: resisting israel is worthless if we cant create a society that "works"......israel is not part of that equation. That guy may want me dead, but i definitely agree with his view on the Palestinian society. Either he is some kind of "self hating Palestenian muslim" or he is looking at his society, seeing it for what it is, and understands that israel is not part of the internal divisions an chaos.....we may have an influence, but they have the same influence on us, yet we dont go "blaming the palestenians for our failure", and its good to hear that this guy at least isnt looking for excuses either.

Hes not the first who has said it, the newspaper of the local paper also commented on it about a year ago (read it someplace on the internet).....

I just think this is an essential element, a society that basis itself on improvement and advancement and not some "jihad" mentality which has been nothing but failure for the last 50+ years.

[breakaleg]

28. He is very clear. He is NOT saying Israel is blameless. He's saying

that Palestinians have to take responsibility for their mistakes in the current state of Gaza. He's saying they failed to make it a success.

It seems to me your statements (in the many threads you've posted in quoting this article) you seem to be saying that he's admitting that Palestinians are responsible for all of their ills and Israel had nothing to do with it. That is a gross misinterpretation of that one statement.

[msmcghee]

30. I believe his point was not that . .

. . Israel is blameless - but that the Palestinians are accepting some of the blame for their own decisions - and that that is good.

I don't think I've ever heard pelsar claim that Israel does everything right and in fact he has offered numrous criticisms of Israeli policy and actions in his posts in this forum.

However, most would agree that unless the militias stop attacking Israel with rockets from Gaza, there will be no possibility for this first stage of peace to succeed or spread, no possibility that innocent Palestinian civilians will not continue to die as the result of the inevitable IDF efforts to stop the attacks.

As someone who has expressed such outrage in the past over such efforts by the IDF when the missiles were coming on a more regular basis - I would think you'd approve of any efforts by the Palestinians in Gaza to examine their own motivations for continuing their unconscionable attacks against Israeli citizens (which are war crimes in fact).

Here is a statement by a Palestinian that offers a sliver of hope for the future by accepting some responsibility for the results of their own decisions. Apparently it's more important to you that any statements made by Hamas be interpreted as a condemnation of Israel, even if that was not the intention of the statement - than that any good come from this current cease fire.

[breakaleg]

31. Here we are arguing about what we believe someone else said.

I suggest you read his posts again. And not just the ones in this thread. As I mentioned in my post, he's been referencing this statement frequently.

[newyorican]

19. Disagree...

Its not so much that i am surprised, but the hypocrasy always strikes me, as the cry for "human rights" seems to become a whimper when its the palestenains who are ignoring basic human rights to other palestenains.

It's much less a matter of not caring, as you state (in a failed attempt to read the minds and characterize those you disagree with). It is much more a matter of triage, stop the bullets to the brain before you stop the bullets to the abdomen. While the later is possibly fatal, the former definitely is.

[pelsar]

21. bullets have stopped....going to the brain...

gaza: dec 2006 (just like it was last year)....no israelis in gaza. I have yet to read a single "human rights violation story" coming out of gaza from any ISM member, blogger, etc.....just the hamas spokesman

human rigths are supposed to be universal irreguardless of geographical placement and who is the govt.....gaza has plenty of reporters and journalists, intl in place, yet not a peep since israel left.

now i actually do understand that complaining may put ones life in danger....(as in the italian reporters that reported the israelis "lynched in ramalla)..but is that excuse good enough?

[newyorican]

27. No they haven't...

...any assertion of that is pure fantasy.

It's telling that I can see both (shots to brain and abdomen) as problems, whereas you choose not to see the headshots at all.

[pelsar]

32. perhaps i'm more used to shooting....

and i recognize when it stops.....and when its coming from a single direction....GAZA 2006.....or if you disagree perhaps some details?

[IntiRaymi]

15. Religious nutcases.

Absolutist thought.

[Tom Joad]

29. Everyone needs to take cover. Israel attacks, day in, day out.

[pelsar]

33. good response...

almost relevant to the original article and almost relevant to the discussion...but it sure does indicate a certain super simplistic POV....something i've come across in many settlers, "jews for jesus", and others......just being religious i guess.