Palestinian girl, 14, killed by IDF fire near West Bank fence

[oberliner]

Israel Defense Forces troops on Tuesday opened fire on two teenaged Palestinian girls approaching the separation fence near the West Bank town of Tul Karm, killing one and wounding the other.

The slain girl was identified as 14-year-old Da'ah Abed al-Kadr, and her wounded friend was named as 12-year-old Rasha Shalbi.

IDF sources said troops opened fire when they noticed a suspicious figure approaching the fence, some 100 meters away. The commanding officer at the scene fired a shot into the air, and a soldier opened fire on the approaching figure.

The bullet penetrated al-Kadr in her hand, leaving her seriously wounded. She died on the way to the Rabin Medical Center in Petah Tikva.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/802990.html

[UndertheOcean]

1. You know , the IDF is the most ethical army in the world <sarcasm>...

but who cares , one more victim that will be soon forgotten .. not as quickly as the 19 year old woman killed by hamas/fatah crossfire recently , but nevertheless forgotten.

[cali]

2. I don't see how this is

defensible. I know there aren't a lot of details in the story, but somehow I really doubt that these two young girls posed any threat. Why did they shoot the girls when they were 100 meters away? This is just so wrong.

[oberliner]

3. did you note this paragraph in the article

"The IDF Central Command ordered the officer and the soldier who fired the shots suspended from all activities. The IDF has opened an investigation into the matter."

[cali]

5. I confess, I didn't read the whole article.

I appreciate your providing me with that information. I'll read it now.

[Englander]

14. Question-

How many idf soldiers/border police officers have been convicted after any investigations following
the shooting of Palestinian men/women/children?

[oberliner]

20. IDF captain jailed for death by negligence of Palestinian teen

http://www.haaretz.co.il/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=423115&contrassID=1&subContrassID=5&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

[Englander]

28. So, the answer's "one"?

The conviction is one of the first of the current intifada pertaining to a case in which a Palestinian was killed.

And it was two & a half years ago?

Last update - 07:51 04/05/2004

And the sentence was six months?

A military court on Monday sentenced an Israel Defense Forces captain found guilty last month of causing the death by negligence of Mohammed Ali Zeid, 16, in October 2002.

Captain Zvi Koratski was sentenced to six months in prison and a further six months on probation. He was also demoted to the rank of first lieutenant.

[oberliner]

31. There were 19 indictments and 6 convictions as of 2005

According to Human Rights Watch with several cases still pending.

Now can you tell me how many Palestinians have been indicted/arrested by the Palestinian Authority for deliberately killing Israeli civilians?

I am particularly curious about the Palestinians who fired the Qassam rockets that killed Dorit Aniso and Yuval Abebeh (ages 2 and 4).

http://www.btselem.org/english/Testimonies/20040929_Death_of_Two_Children_by_Qassam_in_Sderot.asp

[Englander]

33. And the rest;

Here's the rest of the statistics from HRW;

Israel: Failure to Probe Civilian Casualties Fuels Impunity

(Jerusalem, June 22, 2005) — The Israeli military has fostered a climate of impunity in its ranks by failing to thoroughly investigate whether soldiers have killed and injured Palestinian civilians unlawfully or failed to protect them from harm, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today.

>snip

In its most recent communication to Human Rights Watch on the subject, in May 2004, the Israel Defense Forces said they had conducted Military Police investigations into 74 alleged cases of unlawful use of lethal force, fewer than five percent of the civilian deaths recorded at the time.

As of May 22, the Israeli military had initiated 108 investigations resulting in 19 indictments and six convictions, according to Israeli human rights organizations. Two soldiers were convicted for manslaughter, two for causing grave harm, and 2 for illegal use of a weapon.

The longest prison sentence in these cases, handed down on May 18 for causing grave harm, was for 20 months. However, most of the convictions have drawn penalties less severe than those handed down for petty theft or to conscientious objectors.

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/06/22/isrlpa11148.htm

[barb162]

4. ynet or one of the others discussed rock-throwing

[newyorican]

6. Rock throwing from 100 meters?

Did ynet also discuss mind-numbing stupidity?

[oberliner]

7. Lots of discrepancies in this story

From NY Times:

In addition, Israeli troops fatally shot a 14-year-old Palestinian girl, Daah al-Kader, when she approached Israel’s West Bank separation barrier near Tulkarm, the Israeli military and Palestinians said. The military began an investigation of the shooting and suspended the platoon commander and one of the soldiers in the platoon, the military added.

From JPost (Jerusalem Post):

The 10-year-old girl was killed after IDF troops opened fire at a group of Palestinians hurling rocks at a military force next to a section of the West Bank security fence in the Tulkarm area. The IDF said the girl was evacuated for medical treatment in Israel but died of her wounds. The IDF Spokesperson's Office said the incident was under investigation.

From Wafa (Palestine News Agency):

Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) killed Tuesday a 13-year-old girl in Far'on village of Tulkraem city, south of the West Bank, security sources said.

The sources sad that Do'aa Nasser 13, died after being shot by Israeli soldiers guarding the Apartheid Wall in the village. Weinesses said Do'aa was playing with a friend near the wall when she was shot.

From YNet (Yedioth Ahronoth):

A 14-year-old girl was killed Tuesday afternoon by Israel Defense Forces fire in a village near Tulkarm. IDF officials reported that Palestinians rioting near the security fence in the area began hurling stones. Soldiers fired at the rioters, injuring the girl.

[idontwantaname]

9. could i get some links

mainly the ynet article.

----------------

in tulkarem the barrier cuts through a lot of private palestinian farm land. in many cases it runs between the town and the farmland(town is 400-800m from farmland) separating farmers from their land. not only this but roads are cut off by the barrier(6 ways into town cut down to two) and the only way to access it is through settler roads and checkpoints.

[oberliner]

10. Here ya go

Apologies for not including them with my post.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/20/world/middleeast/20mideast.html?hp&ex=1166590800&en=ad552959e92ed63e&ei=5094&partner=homepage

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1164881925328&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

http://wafa.ps/english/body.asp?id=8848

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3341855,00.html

[idontwantaname]

12. no worries

ok. so in the wafa.ps article it said the girl who was shot was shot in faron. i have been there. its a village just outside of tulkaren city center... fairly small. the only way into faron is a small road about 400m from a checkpoint which is along side a settler road. the road use to continue through faron but the separation barrier cut it off. the separation barrier is about600m from faron and no 10 feet after the fence lay a waterwell and acres of untended farmland.
10 years ago the folks in faron would tend their farmland daily but since the settler road and separation barrier block the path and the checkpoint regularly refuse palestinians entrance.

so if the village is a house, than the separation barrier divides the house from the backyard and theres a checkpoint just outside the front door.

[Scurrilous]

16. New ynet article:

Officer, soldier suspended over killing of Palestinian girl

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342337,00.html

<snip>

"Central Command Chief Maj.-Gen. Yair Naveh ordered the suspension from duty of an Israel Defense Forces officer over the killing of a 14-year-old Palestinian girl near Tulkarm on Tuesday.

The soldier who opened fire at the girl was also suspended until the conclusion of an investigation by the Military Police.

Sensors in the security fence section near the West Bank village of Pharaoun alarmed an IDF base in the area that the fence had been approached and a force was dispatched to inspect.

A force identified two Kaffiyeh-clad figures near the fence and a soldier opened fire, killing the girl.

The soldier told his officer that he was sure the figure was a suicide bomber."

[oberliner]

18. More Info from Ha'aretz

Four Palestinians, including a 14-year-old girl and three wanted militants, were killed by Israel Defense Forces troops on the West Bank yesterday.

The girl was shot while trying to cross the separation fence near Tul Karm, in an incident that the IDF called "very grave."

<snip>

The girl, Da'ah Abd al-Qadr, had apparently fought with her mother and wanted to visit relatives in Israel. She convinced a friend, Rasha Shalbi, 12, to come with her.

IDF sources said the troops opened fire when they noticed suspicious figures on the Palestinian side of a tunnel through the fence. The commanding officer fired into the air, and a soldier opened fire when the girls exited the tunnel. Abd al-Qadr was shot in the arm and seriously wounded. She was treated at the scene by IDF medics and died in an ambulance en route to Rabin Medical Center in Petah Tikva.

Palestinian sources claimed that Shalbi was also seriously wounded in the incident, but IDF sources said that she suffered only from shock.

The IDF said that the soldier who shot Abd al-Qadr had not been authorized to shoot. Both the commanding officer and the soldier were suspended and the IDF opened an investigation into the incident.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/803254.html

[oberliner]

21. Also from Al Jazeera:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/2313DF76-EA73-4A02-9AD0-07A28E9D2AF9.htm

The Israeli army has suspended two soldiers involved in the death of a Palestinian girl, believed to be 13-years old, near the West Bank town of Tulkarm.

Witnesses said the soldier opened fire when the girl was playing with a friend near the barrier Israel has built to separate the West Bank from Israel.

The girl was identified as Doaa Abd al-Qadr, and her friend was named as 12-year-old Rasha Shalbi.

Israeli army sources said troops opened fire when they noticed a suspicious figure approaching the fence, 100m away, late on Tuesday night.

[msmcghee]

22. Interesting differences in the stories.

In Haaretz there was far more detail. The girl had argued with her mother and decided to take a younger friend to visit relatives in Israel. Apparently choosing not to cross at the checkpoint (she may have had good reasons for that I assume) she was shot by a soldier (who was not authorized to shoot her) as she emerged from a tunnel under the fence.

In al Jezeera she was just playing with her friend near the barrier wall when she was shot from 100 meters away.

I assume that each newspaper has a motivation to characterize the events in ways that will make their particular readers feel better about the motivations of the persons involved.

It will be interesting to see what actually happened here.

For the record I believe this is a terrible tragedy and I grieve for her and her family.

[Englander]

15. That would be 'cause Jpost (& Ynet & Wafa to a lesser degree)

are in the habit of making shit up.

The NYT article sounds most credible. If Daah al-Kader had been "throwing stones" there wouldn't be
an investigation, & a platoon commander wouldn't be suspended.

'Israeli troops kill 13-year old Palestinian girl

JERUSALEM, Dec 19 (Reuters) - Israeli troops shot and killed a 13-year-old Palestinian girl near the West Bank town of Tulkarm after soldiers accidentally mistook her for a gunman trying to enter Israel, the army said on Tuesday.

She was the third Palestinian to be killed by Israeli troops in the occupied West Bank on Tuesday.

Earlier, Israeli commandos shot dead a Fatah militant in Nablus, witnesses said. An army spokeswoman said the militant tried to evade arrest.

Troops also killed a militant in the West Bank town of Tulkarm, the army said.

An army spokesman said that the girl's shooting was under investigation and that troops treated her at the scene but she died on her way to an Israeli hospital.

The spokesman added that the senior general in the region had ordered that a soldier and the commander at the scene be suspended from duty pending the outcome of an inquiry.

While a Gaza truce declared by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert last month has largely held, Israel has kept up military action in the West Bank.'

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L19393323.htm

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Englander]

13. See also -

"She was carrying a schoolbag containing explosives"

Iman al-hamas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3733638.stm

"He was wearing camouflage & holding a pistol"

Tom Hurndall
http://www.guardian.co.uk/obituaries/story/0,3604,1128176,00.html

"He was caught in rpg crossfire"

James Miller
http://www.nuj.org.uk/inner.php?docid=579

[breakaleg]

8. This is completely disgraceful whether she's 10 or 14.

The big bad Israeli army can't handle people throwing rocks at them? hmmm...

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Phx_Dem]

17. sd

NT.

[geek tragedy]

19. Completely unacceptable. Put 'em both

on trial.

[oberliner]

24. Detained father of girl shot dead by IDF blocked from her funeral

The father of a 14-year-old girl shot dead by Israel Defense Forces soldiers near Tul Karm on Tuesday was not allowed to attend his daughter's funeral on Wednesday.

Nasser Abd al-Qadr is under arrest for entering Israel illegally and is being held in the Abu Kabir lock-up.

His attorney, Rami Otman, requested that the district court allow al-Qadr to attend the funeral, but by the time the court submitted its verdict, the funeral had already started.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/803761.html

[geek tragedy]

25. Oh man. That's just, well

words fail me.

[idontwantaname]

26. the shit thing is

its obvious the israeli govt now recognizes the wall as the border. as i said before it runs ~600m from the village seperating it from its farmland and 10 maybe 20 years ago they have no problems getting to their land.

[breakaleg]

27. Disgraceful.

[Scurrilous]

29. Father of 14-year-old girl killed by IDF released on bail to mourn

<snip>

"Nasser Abd al-Qadr, whose 14-year-old daughter was shot dead by Israel Defense Forces on Tuesday, was released from prison on Friday after his bail was posted.

Earlier Friday, Abd al-Qadr's Lawyers came to an agreement with state prosecution regarding his release from custody to mourn his daughter's death with his family.

MK Zehava Gal-On (Meretz) and MK Ahmed Tibi (United Arab List) paid Abd al-Qadr's NIS 5,000 bail, after earlier it seemed as though no guarantors would be found in time for him to reach the mourning period."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/804562.html

[breakaleg]

30. I didn't know until now what the father was in jail for. He's in jail for

entering Israel illegally to try to find work to feed his family.

[oberliner]

32. Not according to the article

Abd al-Qadr was arrested some two months ago in Kalansua on suspicion of stealing a car, entering Israel illegally and obstructing a policeman in the course of his duty.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. I think the article may have changed since then...

Ha'aretz has an annoying habit of doing that...

Anyway, the article that's there now says he now has been released and though I think it's totally irrelevent to things, he was being held for entering Israel illegally to find work...

'Abd al-Qadr sounded desperate in the Abu Kabir lock-up on Thursday. "What is my crime? I entered to look for work, I don't have a shekel to bring home to my children. All I wanted was to bring them bread. I'm willing to go hungry a month, but the children must eat," he said.'

[Scurrilous]

35. Dismissal, reprimand following Palestinian girl's killing

Nahshon battalion's company commander reprimanded after killing of 14-year-old Palestinian girl in Pharaoun. Platoon commander dismissed, shooting soldier suspended until CID investigation complete

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3343948,00.html

<snip>

"On Sunday, the Central Command Chief Major-General Yair Naveh ordered that the division's commander, who was involved in the difficult incident in which a 14-year-old Palestinian girl was killed, be dismissed from all commanding positions.

Naveh also ordered a reprimand be noted in the battalion's company commander's personal file.

As for the soldier who actually shot the girl, it was decided that his suspension from all activity would continue, until the criminal investigation division's investigation was completed.

The investigation has revealed severe shortcomings in the force's performance."