Israel plans to ease West Bank travel rules

[breakaleg]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/12/25/israel.ap/index.html


JERUSALEM (AP) -- Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Monday authorized the removal of dozens of West Bank roadblocks, a concession meant to bolster moderate Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

Olmert approved the measure during a meeting with top security officials.

Deputy Defense Minister Ephraim Sneh said the officials agreed in principle to remove 27 roadblocks. But he said officials still must determine which roadblocks will be dismantled and when they will be removed.

Several hundred Israeli roadblocks dot the West Bank, severely hampering the movement of Palestinians. Israel says the roadblocks are needed for security.

Earlier Monday, Defense Minister Amir Peretz said he has asked the army to dismantle some of the checkpoints.

[Scurrilous]

1. Haaretz probe finds little has changed at W. Bank roadblocks

<snip>

"Israel has made it only marginally easier for Palestinians to get through roadblocks in the West Bank, and in many cases, no changes have been made at all, a Haaretz investigation on Wednesday of roadblocks in the Hebron, Bethlehem, Ramallah and Nablus areas reveals.

The insignificant improvements fail to meet the commitment Prime Minister Ehud Olmert made to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas during their December 24 meeting in Jerusalem.

The roadblocks examined by Haaretz are those located in the areas where the Israel Defense Forces Spokesman's Office says changes have been made. At some of the roadblocks, only slight changes were made to make life easier for the people living in the area, and no changes were made at other roadblocks. Some of the roadblocks where the IDF said improvements were made had not been manned prior to the Olmert-Abbas meeting. The IDF also added portable roadblocks in a few areas, which make the improvements in the permanent roadblocks irrelevant.

Haaretz examined the following roadblocks: Al-Fawar, Idna, East Halhul, Gush Etzion, X Junction, Wadi Nar, Layl Route, Bir Zeit Bridge, Tapuah Junction and Rimonim. In addition, Haaretz has received testimony from Machsom Watch volunteers, who monitor IDF behavior at West Bank roadblocks, about the Jit roadblock, west of Nablus, along with testimony from Palestinians about additional roadblocks."

Here are the findings of the investigation:

more

[bemildred]

12. Gee, who could have predicted this? nt

[4dsc]

2. Aparthied still lives in the WB

I wonder who's trying to fool who??

[Phx_Dem]

3. The WB is not part of Israel

You are corrupting the meaning of the word apartheid by using it in this context.

[4dsc]

4. True but

Inasmuch as the WB is not the rightful land of Isreal, they still practice aparthied in the WB! The apartheid wall of shame is one example..

[Phx_Dem]

5. The security wall was built to stop suicide attacks

and it's worked well. Do you think a sovereign country has a right to defend it's borders?

[Tom Joad]

6. Israel does not recognize international law. It built that wall inside occupied

territory, in contravention to international law. It did this to take Palestinian land. It is an annexation wall, and that seems pretty plain. Otherwise, Israel would have built this Wall along the Green line. It it had, it would probably would have never been sanctioned by the International Court.

Even the Israeli govt is admitting it was placed where it was so as to maximize its territorial control.

Let's at least be honest here.

[Phx_Dem]

8. In many cases it's not possible to follow the green line

due to topographic restrictions. Moreover, the route has been changed at least 3 times after Palestinians took their concerns through the Israeli court system.

In some areas it does cut into the WB, (like by E. J-lem and Ramallah) but that area is likely to become part of Israel when a peace agreement is finalized (someday).

[Tom Joad]

9. Haim Ramon, Jerusalem Cabinet minister, disagrees.

Haim Ramon, the Jerusalem cabinet minister, said on Israel radio that the Wall in Jerusalem was built “first and foremost to prevent .” But the barrier, he added, “also makes more Jewish. The safer and more Jewish Jerusalem will be, it can serve as a true capital of the state of Israel.”

[Tom Joad]

10. Why did Israel build settlements near these

"dangerous" palestinians? Why are these settlements expanding?

And what kind of peace treaty do you expect Palestinians to agree to? One that takes even more of their land? You expect peace, or surrender?

There will not ever be the latter. Israel should work on being fair to Palestinians so there can be real peace.

[Phx_Dem]

11. The Clinton Ideas

allowed for the bedroom communities around J-Lem to become part of Israel. These communities are not filled with religious settlers, just normal people like you and me looking for affordable housing.

I think the details can be worked out with land swaps.

"Israel should work on being fair to Palestinians so there can be real peace."

I agree with this stmt Tom, though it should go both ways.

[Tom Joad]

14. It is thoughtful of Clinton to be willing to sacrifice Palestinian land for peace.

"These communities are not filled with religious settlers, just normal people like you and me looking for affordable housing."

That may be true. Since Israel subsidizes these homes with generous revenue from normal US taxpayers like you and me.

I believe in the geneva convention, that prohibits the "Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."

[Anarcho-Socialist]

17. If the Islamic states and groups like Hamas and Hizbollah

respected Israel's right to exist then I think the Israeli government is likely to be more amenable to withdrawing to its 1967 borders.

If Israel was interested in maximising its territorial control then it would surely have held onto the Sinai and the whole of the West Bank after 1967.

[Tom Joad]

7. There are 17 Palesinian communities caught on the West side (Israeli side) of the Wall.

27,520 Palestinians are cut off from the West Bank because of this (and they have NO citizenship rights in Israel).
http://www.btselem.org/english/Separation_Barrier/Statistics.asp

What's up with this? Why are these "dangerous" Palestinians cut off from their communities? Why aren't they walled off from Israel if they are supposedly "terrorists"?

Is it because the Wall had other purposes?

[Shaktimaan]

13. Tom, it is obvious.

The wall was built inside of Palestinian territory both to encompass any Israeli settlements and to avoid inconveniencing Israelis as much as possible. Yes, that means that Palestinians are disproportionately hurt by the wall's path. And whatever your view on the settlements are it does not change the fact that the wall was built to keep them on the Israeli side of the border, not for any other reason. The wall was not built to hurt Palestinians. However, it seems true that Palestinians' well-being were not considered at all in determining the wall's path. There is a difference however between antagonism and indifference.

The settlements are not a big deal. Israel has proven that they are more than willing to tear them down and evacuate if they have the incentive. Remember when they gave back the entire Sinai? That was a lot of land and a lot of settlers. If the Palestinians come to the table in a real way then the settlements can be dismantled. But as long as Hamas refused to abide by previously signed treaties I see no reason why Israel should. Treaties only work if both sides abide by them.

And no one has insinuated that all Palestinians are terrorists. But you seem to think that this danger is just hype drummed up by politicians to keep the population in a state of fear for the leadership's own dictatorial benefit. I don't understand this view at all. You do realize that suicide bombing is a very real threat, don't you?

If you ever get the chance you might want to try an experiment. Walk around west Jerusalem for a few hours and try and gauge the level of tension. On the buses, on the street, all over. Then cross into east Jerusalem and do the same thing. Try and determine which side has a greater level of tense fear and which side seems more relaxed, sleepy even. I am curious to see if you end up with the same results I did.

[Tom Joad]

15. You mean Israel is willing to treat Jewish citizens like chess pawns also?

Hundreds of thousands of Jewish Settlers live in the West Bank, and they only increase. Over 400,000 Settlers can be uprooted, just like that?

I have been in all parts of Jerusalem.

I sat in a Palestinian refugee camp, near nablus, at night, while occupation roamed the streets in Tanks, ready to terrorize families. I have gone to families home after its possessions were scattered everywhere by occupation forces, even the kids room. They were outside freezing in the night while the soldiers desecrated their home. A mother still crying in the morning because they could not protect her children from this horror.

In the meantime, illegal settlers (under international law) slept soundly through the night in suburban-like fancy homes not far from there. Protected by US tax-funded military.

[Name removed]

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