Abusing 'Anti-Semitism'

[LittleApple81]

Excellent article.


LETTER FROM ISRAEL
by Ran HaCohen

snip...

When a Palestinian kills innocent Israeli civilians, it's anti-semitism. When Palestinians attack soldiers of Israel's occupation army in their own village, it's anti-semitism. When the UN General Assembly votes 133 to 4 condemning Israel's decision to murder the elected Palestinian leader, it means that except for the US, Micronesia and Marshal Islands, all other countries on the globe are anti-semitic. Even when a pregnant Palestinian woman is stopped at an Israeli check-point and gives birth in open field, the only lesson to be learnt is that Ha'aretz journalist Gideon Levy – who reported two such cases in the past two weeks, one in which the baby died – is an anti-semite.

Anti-semitism is an all-encompassing explanation. Anything unpleasant to anti-Palestinian ears is just anotherance of anti-semitism. Jewish consciousness focused on anti-semitism has taken the shape of anti-semitic conspiracy theories, like that of The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion: whereas the anti-semitic classic relates every calamity to Jewish conspiracy, Jews relate to anti-semitic conspiracy every criticism of Israel. As we shall see, this is not the only similarity between anti-Palestinianism and anti-semitism.

It is high time to say it out loud: in the entire course of Jewish history, since the Babylonian Exile in the 6rd century BC, there has never been an era blessed with less anti-semitism than ours. There has never been a better time for Jews to live in than our own.

more...


http://www.antiwar.com/hacohen/h092903.html

[mmm]

1. that's a good one

[Josh]

2. Yeah but when I walk to my very left-leaning university

and see "Death to the Jews" STAMPED (not just written - someone had to pay for a stamp that works on concrete to be stencilled and made) on the walkway and another one saying "The Jews are the New Nazis" next to it, I see antisemitism as quite alive and well.

[Jackie97]

28. If it's okay that I ask a question.....

What university do you go to? Maybe you and some other Jews (or people who agree with you) on your campus can complain about this, and say that you are concerned for the safety of Jews on campus.

I do have to ask something else. Do you know for certain that the person who stamped that was leftist?

[Violet_Crumble]

44. I was going to ask the same thing...

Josh can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's Australian and I got the feeling from reading some of his previous posts that he lives in Sydney. I'm still a bit confused about him calling it a 'very left-leaning' uni. I wonder if he's talking about the students or the university itself? If it's the latter, and Josh is Australian, I find it strange that he'd be calling universities that are chomping at the bit to substantially increase our fees 'very left-leaning'. Anyway, Josh doesn't need anyone else to go with him, the uni should do something on the strength of one person, nor does it matter whether the offensive stuff was written by students or non-students. All he has to do is to go and complain, which is what I'd do if I ever came across anything like that, but the only stuff that gets chalked or painted on walls and places at the uni I go to is garden variety anti-war stuff. But hey, maybe Canberra just isn't 'very left-leaning' enough or something ;)



Violet...

[Jackie97]

46. About tuition increases......

I hate to say it, but I think that's a pretty well spread epidemic in the U.S. It doesn't matter if the school is right winged, left winged, whatever. Some of the most "leftist" schools where I'm at are looking at increase every year. It's pissing off people from both the right and left, but they feel like there isn't much that can be done about it. It sucks.

Off topic, I personally love to read the stuff that people put on the walls in these schools. When the war in Iraq started, students just started up their own "argument" on the bathroom wall about it. Some of those comments got nasty too. LOL. I read a religious argument on the bathroom wall once. Now, a Satanic star has been drawn over it with the message that everybody needs to get a sense of humor. LOL. The only thing that I read that really was definate hate speech was some moron putting on the wall "Why do (n word) smell so bad?". It was followed by a few backlashes. That was at a "left leaning" university too. This stuft happens. It just needs to get reported so they can do something about it.

[Jim Sagle]

3. This thread ain't nuthin' but shit and neither is the article.

[Flying_Pig]

4. Jim Sagle's comments on this thread, are nuthin' but shit.....

I think the article is worth reading...

[bluesoul]

6. Here we go again

Jim is this the best you can do at every thread concerning Israel? One wonders...

[Evil_Dewers]

7. RE: "This thread ain't nuthin' but shit and neither is the article."

That's your opinion. Care to share with us why that's your opinion?

[sushi]

16. According to his sentence

he doesn't like the thread but then he used 'neither' which cancels "ain't," so he doesn't think the article is "nothing but..."

[Evil_Dewers]

9. Israel is walling in the Palestinians

like the Nazis walled-in the Jews in the ghettos of Warsaw. Neither was/is acceptable to me.

[Jackie97]

29. Israel does not thank you.

Unless you're willing to say *why* something "ain't nothing but shit", then what good are your comments to the Israeli cause? I do more for Israel and I'm a critic of Israeli policy. LOL.

[Evil_Dewers]

5. Nah...

I'm sick of being called an anti-Semite because I disagree with the rightwingnuts of Likud--like former terrorist Ariel Sharon.

American Jews need to realize that Sharon is more right wing than George Dubya bush.

[bluesoul]

8. Sharon

Sharon is more right wing then a lot of people not only Dubya, plus he has a bloody past (Sabra & Shatila)...

[Evil_Dewers]

11. Oops. Correction. Sharon is not a former terrorist...

He is a current terrorist who terrorizes the Palestinians daily.

You think because he's been elected that he's now legitimate? Arafat was elected. Milosovic was elected.

[Gimel]

10. Classic

Get a Jew to write:

Thus, evoking Jewish victims of the past to defend Jewish victimisers of the present –remember that Israel has one of the mightiest armies on earth – is a moral fault on a par with, and embarrassingly similar to, anti-semitism itself.

The moral fault is assuming that first of all the claim is indeed true. The desire to protect people who have suffered is the situation, not the desire to oppress.

So we'll just overlook the truth of the claim, being aghast that a person with a Jewish name would write this, and then, indeed it must be the truth.

[Evil_Dewers]

13. How do you protect the people...

who have suffered by being intentionally careless when you fire rockets into Palestinian apartments and at autos on crowded streets and fire missiles into crowded bazaars and you kill twice as many Palestinian civilians as the suicide bombers kill Israeli civilians? Intentionally running over an American peace demonstrator does not endear me to the tactics of Sharon. I guess she was what the Bush administration calls "collateral damage." It was soooooo important to bulldoze that house that an American had to die for it.

There is not a finite amount of terrorists in the world who want to do Israel harm. Bush thinks there are a finite amount of terrorists who want to do Americans harm, and, if he can kill them all, MerKKKa will be safe. But terrorism is like a hydra--kill one and two more heads take its place. Bush created thousands of orphans in Afghanistan and Iraq. I wouldn't blame those orphans for hating MerKKKa and becoming terrorists in about ten years. We reap what we sow.

[Gimel]

42. Those tallies again

How many times do you have to be reappraised of the significance of those figures? And then use Corrie as the starring feature. Let's get real for once.

Edited for typos

[MrPrax]

12. It is overstated...

and labelling everything anti-semticism is probably a dog that won't hunt anymore...
If you notice that during the Peace Movement during the Spring, the tactic was used to attack the Peaceniks...
That killed it...
Many Many people in the Peace movement have dedicated and fought against racism, anti-semticism, sexism, et al to the point of ridicule by those who denouce everyhting as PC and an infringement to their 'personal' right to engage in slur and racism, sexism, ...
A lot of those people have viciously fought Nazi skinheads and White power groups...
AND THEN...find themselves being called anti-semitic!! by the Likud power faction, the usual suspects because they did not want to see an illegal war...

Needless to say, anti-semtism is NOW A very low priority for many many Progressives who indeed question why a special category for racism be created for this particular group...
In fact to create a special category might be unwittingly playing into Zionist exceptionalism...
Best let the various Jewish organizations deal with the Nazis themselves

[Evil_Dewers]

14. Many of the Palestinians are Semites...

[sushi]

17. Aren't all Arabs

Semites?

[Aidoneus]

26. technically yes, but as relates to the common usage of the term

that's mostly irrelevant..

the people who coined the term in the 1800s indeed probably hated both Jews & Arabs (and probably Africans, Turks, Iranians, and anyone else who was not as white, Christian, and "Aryan" as they were), but the widespread/typical use of the term means "anti-Jew" (though with the very same techniques and formulas previously spoken of against the Jews now being recycled to stir up the same hate against Muslims, perhaps a new term is necessary). It's one of those technically misleading things people keep around just because of the entrenched familiarity of its use.

[DuctapeFatwa]

15. Good article. Thanks, LittleApple!

Those with an appreciation of the absurd cannot fail to note the irony of the term "anti-Semitism" being applied to the actions of a gang of European immigrants against a Semitic people.

[rini]

18. knowledge is power, you are powerless

When a Palestinian kills innocent Israeli civilians, it's anti-semitism. No, it's murder.

Even when a pregnant Palestinian woman is stopped at an Israeli check-point and gives birth in open field, the only lesson to be learnt is that Ha'aretz journalist Gideon Levy – who reported two such cases in the past two weeks, one in which the baby died – is an anti-semite.

this was against Israeli policy and is under investigation

Just FYI the very term anti-semitism (hatred of Jews just for being alive, convert or not still hated)didn't come into being until the end of the 19th C. Prior to this time, there was nation fighting nation, no prejudice, and in the early Christian era anti-Jewish (religious) prejudice. There has never in the history of the world been as much prejudice /anti-semitism as in the 20th C.

[Evil_Dewers]

19. Israel is not solely a Jewish state...

Many Arab Israelis are treated as second class citizens even though they live in Israel proper and have Israeli citizenship.

This whole mess is just another reason to hate the evils perpetuated in the name of Yahweh, Allah and God/Jesus...

[Gimel]

20. You are if you feel that way

Being second-class is also a state of mind. Some are, some are not.

[Jackie97]

31. Being second class is a state of mind?

I'll have to remember to tell that to the next Israeli/Palestinian couple that I meet that couldn't stay in Israel after getting married.

[Gimel]

41. Enjoy

the wedding. Sounds great. Many beautiful places in the West Bank.

[Jackie97]

47. More like many ugly places....

Thanks to Israel constantly destroying it. You may support racist policies, thinking that Israel should get away with it, but both Palestinians and Arabs alike WILL ONE DAY BE FREE from this.

[Fight_n_back]

21. For all you whiners about being called an anti semite

just look at how those charges have destroyed Ahnold's career in California.

[Aidoneus]

22. I'm probably just proving your point..

but, um.. what charges? without much deliberate effort (or interest, for that matter) I've run across quite an impressive amount of unsavory bits about him, but that's new.. do you mean his Nazi daddy or him personally?

[Fight_n_back]

23. Yes you are proving my point

it is more damning to be called a liberal than an anti semite, its more damning to be called a Raider fan. Most people on this board don't even acknowledge the possible existence of anti semitism. Many have openly stated that it is justified because of Israel's actions.

So quit whining and get on with it. Just the discussion of anti semitism on this board ends up being anti semitic eventually.

[Resistance]

24. you're the only one whining (not to mention making things up)

It is legitimate to complain about false charges and insinuations of anti-semitism.

And who are these "many" who have openly stated that anti-semitism is justified because of Israeli actions?

You need to quit crying and start paying attention to reality. In reading all your constantly obnoxious, hostile posts, I have come to feel really sorry for you. Open your mind a little bit and you will see that only a fractional minority of Leftist are anti-semitic.

[Fight_n_back]

36. That is very progressive of you

to listen like you did. You were really interested in finding out what I was trying to say. Your parents must be so proud.

[Aidoneus]

25. look at the rest of this thread

while you're at it, check these (you don't really have to, I'll make the same point in more exact form later)--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=16690&mesg_id=16690

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=14910&mesg_id=14910

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=5422&mesg_id=5422

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=5501&mesg_id=5501

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=4576

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=1298&mesg_id=1298

If you notice my involvement in what you describe as "whining" in any of these on the subject, it's news to me. In fact, one would get the idea that the practice of ritualized preemptive deflection just doesn't interest me (the question in general, with notable exceptions, strikes me as rather tedious and a distraction from what I feel to be better lines of denunciation for either side to use instead, but that's a whole other discussion and more complicated than what I could cram into an already dangerously long enough run-on sentence at this time).

That aside now, as for Ahnuld.. what is the allegation(s) about him you alluded to? I think the closest thing I've heard of him relating at all to Jews (besides his Nazi father, of course) was one of his early teachers/mentors, Alfred Gsomethingorother (Gertzel? or a spelling similar to that), who was Jewish.. the matter about Waldheim, perhaps? I can't say I care much about Ahnuld, but this would be a notable (to me anyway, perhaps not to others as you claim) addition to my reasons for disliking him.

[Jackie97]

30. First of all....

I only know of Arnold's father being anti-semitic. What makes Arnold himself that way?

And yes, many people on this board do acknowledge the existence of REAL anti-semitism. It just doesn't include all the crap that you all include (like insulting Israeli policies). And who has justified anti-semitism because of Israel's actions? Show me who it was, and the post.

[Fight_n_back]

35. First of all

find a post where I am included in your "you all"

Open challenge to you my friend. Find where I say that questioning Israeli policy is anti semitic.

Search for years, its not there.

[Jackie97]

48. What about this?

"Most people on this board don't even acknowledge the possible existence of anti semitism. Many have openly stated that it is justified because of Israel's actions."

You talk about people on this board in the first sentence. Were you not talking about them with your second sentence? If you were, then I still expect you to show where people on this board will justify anti-semitism because of Israel's actions. Otherwise, you did make a false accusation about people here on this board.

[Fight_n_back]

49. What?

Your post comes out of nowhere.

[newyorican]

50. I believe that is from your #23

in this thread.

[Jackie97]

52. Yes, it came from #23.

Here's the link.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=17000&mesg_id=17039&page=

Do you really not remember what you write?

[bemildred]

53. First rule of Italian driving:

"What is behind me is not important."

[Jackie97]

54. It is important....

if the car from behind you hits you in the back and messes up your car. When Yang said what he said "behind me", he might very well have been damaging the names of people on this board.

[Fight_n_back]

55. "names of people on this board"

everybody here uses an alias.

If anyone was damaged by anything I said then I am, quite frankly, stunned.

[Darranar]

56. I think you're missing the point. n/t

[Fight_n_back]

60. I fail to see

how that is my problem.

[Jackie97]

64. Your problem is that you don't want to take responsibility.

First, you pretend not to be accusing pro-Palestinians on here of anti-Semitism (which does go against the rules, BTW). Then, you come up with this BS idea that because aliases are used, that you havnen't hurt anybody. You could have still changed whether or not people are willing to listen to them over the internet. I also have to say that many pro-Palestinians take the subject personal. Then, when confronted by another person, you claim it's not your problem. As long as you open your mouth and make knee jerk statements, it is your problem. You need to take some responsibility.

[Fight_n_back]

65. Thank you

for pointing out "my problem".

You have yet to show me where I said that people who are against Israeli policy are anti semitic.

I never claimed that I have never called anyone anti semitic, I claimed that I never stated it was anti semitic to be against Israeli policy.

[Jackie97]

67. You still spoke about the ones on "here"..

and that was against the rules.

[Fight_n_back]

68. The rules

say a lot of things. Police your own side first.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fight_n_back]

70. If you think

that I have broken a rule then feel free to hit the alert button.

You still havn't shown me where I said that criticizing Israel is anti semitic which was your original attack point.

[Jackie97]

71. I don't hit the alert button for everything.....

That would take up too much of my time. Plus, I'm never have been much of a person to be ratting out others most of the time. Obviously, somebody just hit the alert button on my recent post, so I think I'll take some responsibity and find out what I did.

[Equinox]

63. It's not a problem if you don't let it become one.

[Fight_n_back]

57. I kind of get it now

but it still doesn't have anything to do with what I said in the post you were responding to.

The quote you use does not accuse people who are against Israeli policy of being anti semitic so it still comes from out of left field.

Avram Mitzna was against Israeli policy...I never accussed him of being anti semitic.

My main point of evidenc is that I have not been banned for accussing people of anti semitism, therefore, it was either incredibly cryptic or didn't happen.

Jackie...do you happen to know my feelings about current Israeli policy?

I didn't think so.

[Darranar]

59. This is my question for you:

When have people justified anti-semitism becuase of Israel's actions on DU? This doesn't include banned posters.

I don't know how much Jackie knows, but the most I know about your positions on Israeli policy is that you have no problem with the refuseniks and you are bothered by israel's wall. I haven't been here anywhere as long as you have, so I think i have some justification for not knowing.

[Fight_n_back]

61. It has been stated by more than one person

that anti semnitism in Europe and the Arab world stems from Israeli policy.

[Darranar]

62. That doesn't excuse it...

I could say that suicide bombing is partially due to Israeli policy, and that would be true; however, it wouldn't excuse the suicide bombings. I could say that Saddam Hussein's murderous regime was responsible for its own downfall; that would also be true, though it wouldn't excuse the Iraq war.

[Fight_n_back]

66. That is a simplistic view

there are suicide bombings that have nothing to do with Israel.

Who was responsible for Timothy McVeigh,s terror attack? What US policy should change because of Eric Rudolph?

There are policies that Israel has towards the West Bank that should change but not because there are terror attacks. The policies should change in spite of terror attacks.

[Darranar]

72. Don't change the subject...

True or not true, that statement doesn't excuse suicide bombers.

[Darranar]

37. That is plain old junk...

Someone being called an anti-semite is most certainly a big deal. Such lies and smearing can wrekc a person's political life, seperate them from friends, and ruin their careers - for a lie.

I acknowledge the existence of anti-semitism. I simply don't smear anyone who has the slightest chance of being anti-semitic by calling them anti-semitic. Not a single non-banned poster on this forum is anti-semitic.

[Fight_n_back]

38. If it is so ruionous

name a case (and then back it with evidence)

We have been through this before, you and I. You were not able to find evidence of any American politician ruined by charges of anti semitism.

Shit, its tough to find someone ruined by their support for Jim Crow laws.

[Darranar]

39. Whether or not I can PROVE that it's harmful...

the fact is that it's still untrue smearing.

[Fight_n_back]

40. The propoganda here is

that the all powerful Jew media silences all crtics of Israel by "smearing" good, innocent Americans with the charge of anti semitism.

Meanwhile, Pat Buchanon and Robert Novak are on TV several times per week.

This argument that it is worse to be CALLED an anti semite is worse than actual anti semitism is actually quite an amazing canard. More amazing that people like you buy into it.

Charges of anti semitism CARRY NO WEIGHT anywhere outside of Tel Aviv. Its like accussing someone of wearing mismatched socks.

[Equinox]

45. Possibly because it's been turned into that.

Cry wolf one too many times, and no one comes a runnin'.

[Fight_n_back]

73. well....

now do you see the charges against Arnold?
Personally I think they are bunk but you can see that even saying you admire Hitler ends up meaning nothing. It would have been worse for him to say he admired Howard Stern or Bill CLinton.

[Jackie97]

27. I don't like this article.

It seems to be full of BS in some areas.

“Jews may believe in God or not, eat pork or not, live in Israel or not, but they are all united by their unlimited belief in anti-semitism.”

Here, the author is stereotyping Jews to have an “unlimited" belief in anti-semitism. Where does the author come up with such ideas? I know, the letter came from Israel. That doesn't change that this appears to be stereotypical.

“Nowadays, anti-semitism is a taboo and a criminal offence in every developed country on earth.”

It is not. Anti-semitism is considered to be wrong in many areas, but it’s certainly not illegal in every country on earth. The U.S. for example allows holocaust deniers to speak freely (along with other forms of anti-semites). Notice how the author cleverly says "developed country"? You (generic you) wouldn't want to consider the anti-semitism in the underdeveloped countries, would you?

“Such institutionalised discrimination and oppression is not only totally extinct today: it is utterly unimaginable. With one revealing exception (Israel, where non-orthodox religious Jews are discriminated against), Jews enjoy full religious freedom wherever they are. They have full citizenship wherever they live, with full political, civic and human rights like every other citizen.”

Oh yeah, Jews have full citizenship, human rights, and freedom in places like Iraq? Give me a break. What about Russia, where there are so many Jewish victims?

Something about that website has always put a chill up my spine.

[Jim Sagle]

32. Thank you, Jackie. You said it far better than I did.

Not that that was hard to do. ;-)

[Jackie97]

33. Of course I said it better than you did....

All you ever do is give one liners that nobody will take seriously. Will you at least tell people why you think that an article is nothing but shit?

[Darranar]

34. There...

a perfect example of what I was talking about earlier; how the Far Right has injected some racist poison into the Far Left.

Thanks for posting a great post, Jackie.

[Scurrilous]

43. Something to keep in mind...

....when reading anything from antiwar.com. The site is run by Justin Raimondo. Member in good standing of Free Republic since July 1999 (he posts under his name). :eyes:

[Fight_n_back]

51. Wow

Justin Raimondo spends a lot of his waking hours thinking about Jews. He has written a lot about Jews. He is really, really interested in Jews, who they are, where they are, how many there are, how much they have.

Of course, it is probably all innocent.

[Darranar]

58. I don't like antiwar.com either...

Any website which routinely posts articles by Pat Buchanan is worthy of suspicion, IMO.