ADL's Foxman, Falwell critic, mourns him as 'dear friend of Israel'

[Englander]

By Haaretz Service and news agencies

Anti-Defamation League National Director Abraham Foxman, a critic of evangelist Jerry Falwell in life, has voiced sadness at his death, calling him a "dear friend of Israel" who would be greatly missed.

The folksy, small-town preacher who used the power of television to found the Moral Majority and turn the Christian right into a mighty force in American politics during the Reagan years, died Tuesday at 73.

"Despite our many disagreements through the years, we were saddened to learn of the loss of the Rev. Jerry Falwell. He was a passionate leader of Christianity in America and a dear friend of Israel." Foxman said in a statement.

The ADL, while praising Falwell for his brand of Christian Zionism, was often critical of statements the organization viewed as fostering intolerance. Falwell wrote in his book America Can Be Saved that "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them."

Haaretz

[bemildred]

1. Isn't that precious. A fond farewell to an old comrade in arms. nt

[barb162]

3. And Al Sharpton last night was quite laudatory of Mr. Falwell.

[bemildred]

5. The Reverend Al is a politician, and you will see no politicians

utter an unkind word about the dead.

[barb162]

6. Maybe DUers should be more like politicians. n/t

[bemildred]

8. Perhaps.

It's my impression many come here to vent in one form or another, so it's no surprise that they do so.

[IndianaGreen]

12. Sharpton, the man that gave racism a bad name in the Tawana Brawley case

All one has to do is to say they support whatever Israel does, and that makes them righteous in the eyes of the ultra-Zionist fanatics that believe a Supreme Being gave them a blank check to murder, persecute, exploit, and steal land from people.

Religion is the great curse of humanity!

[barb162]

17. Will you admit he's a civil rights activist / liberal?

How about that he ran as a Democrat from President?
BTW, I think his actions were disgraceful on the Brawley case, what little I remember of that case.

[IndianaGreen]

20. Sharpton is a civil rights charlatan and a racist, like Jesse Jackson

In 2004 Sharpton got money from the Kerry campaign, supposedly for consulting, while still a candidate. Sharpton attacked Dean for not having enough minorities in his staff, in that minority-rich state of Vertmont. Now we find Sharpton getting money funneled into one of his "consulting" organizations from the Hillary campaign. I expect Sharpton to earn his pay in 2008 as he did in 2004.

[barb162]

25. Well, those are not very nice things to write about two Democratic

presidential candidates of the past (though I agree with you to some extent). The fact is you can find something wrong with everyone's past, correct? DOes that mean whatever they state about a person who died is invalid? Does that mean whatever they state about ANYTHING is invalid?

[Crunchy Frog]

39. Well, I have about as much respect for Foxman as I have for Sharpton.

Larry Flynt too.:)

[jonnyblitz]

2. many here at DU are under the illusion that the ADL is a liberal

group. they so are NOT. there is a statement on their site in support of the war on Iraq, for example.

[barb162]

4. ADL is a liberal group and that is no illusion.

BTW, many here are under the illusion that Hamas, Fatah, Hezbo, etc., are liberal groups and they aren't.

[Tom Joad]

9. A Liberal group? Not often times, Barb. for example, It came to bat for Dan Pipes, a Bush appointee

when even the republican congress could not muster the necessary votes to confirm him in the Senate as Bush's appointee to the board of United States Institute of Peace, a Congressionally sponsored think tank dedicated to "the peaceful resolution of international conflicts." He ended up getting a recess appointment by Bush.

From the ADL press release:

New York, N.Y., August 25, 2003 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) commended President George W. Bush for appointing Middle East scholar Daniel Pipes to the board of the United States Institute of Peace.

So what's up with that? One of Bush's most extremist advisors is getting a plug by the ADL. A man who supported US military support for Saddam Hussein back in 1987 in an article in The New Republic, a man who believed, like Bush, that war is the answer for creating "peace"

"Conditions of peace have, by and large, been created through military victory"-- Daniel Pipes

A man who supported Bush's policies in Iraq, indeed, one of Bush's key advisors pushing for war against the Iraqi people....
He recieved the full, unqualified endorsement of the ADL.

This is just one example of many. It focus recently has been to attack Jimmy Carter, and to defame him.

The ADL is liberal? Let's just say it does not seem to be consistant.

[barb162]

21. Sorry Tom, that doesn't fly. ADL's mission is about stopping

the defamation of Jews and discrimination, which I consider a progressive and just goal.

"The immediate object of the League is to stop, by appeals to reason and conscience and, if necessary, by appeals to law, the defamation of the Jewish people. Its ultimate purpose is to secure justice and fair treatment to all citizens alike and to put an end forever to unjust and unfair discrimination against and ridicule of any sect or body of citizens."
http://www.adl.org/main_about_adl.asp
I disagree with most of what you've got in that post. To discuss Pipes and say he supported Bush in regard to Iraq is really off. As in, so what? So did a lot of Democrats in Congress and elsewhere. In many books about the leadup to the Iraq war, I don't remember Pipes being mentioned as a "key" adviser. Key advisers were in his cabinet and others in high posts, like NSA and let's remember a guy called Cheney. Beside that, I think Bush was itching to attack Iraq ever since his dad didn't finish off Hussein in the first Gulf War (though I can't prove it). It's also clear Bush was suspecting Iraq had a hand in 9-11 until Richard Clarke set him straight on that.

[Tom Joad]

27. That goal is fine, but their politics goes beyond that. They also work to support

specific Israeli policies that violate human rights.

And it may not be siginicant for you that Pipes takes these extreme positions... like when he supported arming Saddam back in the 80's, but for many of us it is very significant.

[barb162]

7. I recall Martin Luther King considering himself a friend of Israel.

[Tom Joad]

10. That's true, but we can't speak for King as to what policies he would have supported

Jimmy Carter also calls himself a friend of Israel.

we can say that people like Falwell would do everything they can to get the US to send more cluster bombs to Israel, and would have no problem with the horrific war visited upon the people of Lebanon. Just like Falwell pushed for war against Iraq.

Other friends of Israel have a different perspective.

[barb162]

18. If you can't speak for King, I think you can't speak for Falwell

any more. The only thing you can do is go back to their statements. As far as referencing armaments, are you equally against those who espouse about arming Israel's enemies.

[IndianaGreen]

13. Had MLK lived, he would have joined Desmond Tutu in condemning Israel's Occupation of Palestine

MLK never lived to see the cruelty of the "Chosen People" to their fellow human beings, all in the name of GAWD. Kinda similar to the Southern segregationists, wasn't it? No wonder the GOP is a welcome home for the pro-settlement crowd.

[oberliner]

16. BS

During his lifetime King witnessed the birth of Israel and the continuing struggle to build a nation. He consistently reiterated his stand on the Israel- Arab conflict, stating "Israel's right to exist as a state in security is uncontestable." It was no accident that King emphasized "security" in his statements on the Middle East.

On March 25, 1968, less than two weeks before his tragic death, he spoke out with clarity and directness stating, "peace for Israel means security, and we must stand with all our might to protect its right to exist, its territorial integrity. I see Israel as one of the great outposts of democracy in the world, and a marvelous example of what can be done, how desert land can be transformed into an oasis of brotherhood and democracy. Peace for Israel means security and that security must be a reality."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/01/21/ED115336.DTL&hw=luther+king+john+lewis&sn=001&sc=1000

I'm sure MLK would've loved your snarky reference to "GAWD".

Edit to add: I also don't think he'd agree that "religion is the great curse of humanity"

[barb162]

22. You nor others can make statements like that for MLK.

You have no knowledge of what he would have done had he lived.
References to GAWD, segregationists, etc., has no place here as far as I am concerned, though I do wonder what you think about the cruelty exhibited in the Fatah-Hamas violence of today and the last few months, where innocent Palestinians are getting nailed in crossfire.

[IndianaGreen]

26. MLK would have been run over by an Israeli bulldozer, like Rachel Corrie was

or he would have been shot by an Israeli sniper for daring to demonstrate against Sharon's wall.

MLK did not live to see all the ugliness of Israeli racism and violence against the Palestinians, the Lebanese, and her own Arab citizens.

MLK would have stood on the same side of the I/P issue as Desmond Tutu and Nelson Mandela, and not side with pukes like Jerry Falwell or his ilk.

[barb162]

28. I think MLK was a very intelligent man and I doubt he would

have stood in front of a bulldozer screeching like Corrie.

King was into peaceful demonstrations, remember?

Do you ever wonder why Israeli Arabs aren't running over to live on the other side of the wall, what with all that Israeli cruelty you are mentioning? I mean, you'd think there'd be a mass fucking exodus by now of Israeli Arabs over to the Palestinian side if there weere such cruelty as you are trying to portray. As to the Palestinians, I think they are experiencing extremely high levels of cruelty from the Palestinian factional fighting. The Lebanese? Come on, ask the Christian and other Lebanese how much they enjoyed Hezbo using them as human shields when they were firing off rockets into Israel.

[Shaktimaan]

29. You do realize of course,

that MLK was a deeply religious man and drew much of his inspiration and courage from the very philosophy that you consider a blight upon humanity. Of where MLK would have stood on specific issues we can only speculate. But we do know that while he was alive his most fundamental beliefs were the exact opposite of your own. So if I were you I would not jump to presume an intimate understanding of exactly what the man would be doing or thinking today, you don't seem to have a very strong grip on what his thoughts WERE, much less what they might have been.

And the southern segregationists were primarily Democrats right up until the 60's civil rights movement when they abandoned the Democratic party for the GOP as punishment for voting in favor of integration.

[IndianaGreen]

11. "Falwell adopted the cause of the most thuggish and demented Israeli settlers"

Birds of a feather flock together. Foxman and Falwell, what a pair of losers!

Faith-Based Fraud

Jerry Falwell's foul rantings prove you can get away with anything if you have "Reverend" in front of your name.

By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Wednesday, May 16, 2007, at 12:46 PM ET

The discovery of the carcass of Jerry Falwell on the floor of an obscure office in Virginia has almost zero significance, except perhaps for two categories of the species labeled "credulous idiot." The first such category consists of those who expected Falwell (and themselves) to be bodily raptured out of the biosphere and assumed into the heavens, leaving pilotless planes and driverless trucks and taxis to crash with their innocent victims as collateral damage. This group is so stupid and uncultured that it may perhaps be forgiven. It is so far "left behind" that almost its only pleasure is to gloat at the idea of others being abandoned in the same condition.

The second such category is of slightly more importance, because it consists of the editors, producers, publicists, and a host of other media riffraff who allowed Falwell to prove, almost every week, that there is no vileness that cannot be freely uttered by a man whose name is prefaced with the word Reverend. Try this: Call a TV station and tell them that you know the Antichrist is already on earth and is an adult Jewish male. See how far you get. Then try the same thing and add that you are the Rev. Jim-Bob Vermin. "Why, Reverend, come right on the show!" What a fool Don Imus was. If he had paid the paltry few bucks to make himself a certified clergyman, he could be jeering and sneering to the present hour.

Falwell went much further than his mad 1999 assertion about the Jewish Antichrist. In the time immediately following the assault by religious fascism on American civil society in September 2001, he used his regular indulgence on the airwaves to commit treason. Entirely exculpating the suicide-murderers, he asserted that their acts were a divine punishment of the United States. Again, I ask you to imagine how such a person would be treated if he were not supposedly a man of faith.

<snip>

Seeking to deflect the charge of anti-Jewish prejudice, Falwell adopted the cause of the most thuggish and demented Israeli settlers, proclaiming that their occupation of the West Bank and Gaza was a holy matter and hoping that they might help to bring on Armageddon and the return of the Messiah. A detail in this ghastly narrative, as adepts of the "Left Behind" series will know, is that the return of the risen Christ will require the mass slaughter or mass conversion of all Jews. This consideration did not prevent Menachem Begin from awarding Falwell the Jabotinsky Centennial Medal in 1980 and has not inhibited other Israeli extremists from embracing him and his co-thinkers ever since. All bigots and frauds are brothers under the skin. Trying to interrupt the fiesta of piety on national television on the night of Falwell's death, I found myself waiting while Ralph Reed went all moist about the role of the departed in empowering "people of faith." Here was the hypocritical casino-based Christian who sought and received the kosher stamp from Jack Abramoff. Perfect.

http://www.slate.com/id/2166337/

[oberliner]

14. Foxman and Falwell are not "birds of a feather"

ADL Condemns Falwell's Anti-Muslim Remarks; Urges Him to Apologize

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

The Rev. Jerry Falwell has once again demonstrated his intolerance by his outrageous charge about the Prophet Mohammed. He owes an apology to the millions of good people who follow the Muslim faith. As a man of the cloth, he should be working toward bringing faith communities closer together, not driving wedges through them.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/DiRaB_41/4168_41.htm

Falwell on the proposed amendment to ban gay marriage: The issue is simply this. The family is one man married to one woman, period.

Foxman on the proposed amendment to ban gay marriage:

"We urge you to vote against the proposed Constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage when it comes before the Senate," said Ms. Balser and Mr. Foxman. "We believe that it is important to make sure the law is able to protect all members of society. A Constitutional amendment banning gay marriage would have the opposite effect.

"We oppose any effort to amend the United States Constitution in a manner that discriminates against a specific group of Americans. That is exactly what the proposed amendment does. It targets an entire class of people for social, economic, and civic discrimination in a way that is anathema to American principles of democracy. Discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation is as ugly as any other form of discrimination.

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/CvlRt_32/4535_41.htm

[IndianaGreen]

15. I am dancing on Falwell's grave!

I am glad Falwell is dead. I only regret that he wasn't joined in death by the other charlatans and peddlers of religious smut like Dobson and Robertson.

Screw his family! His son is following his disgusting father into the same ministry of bigotry and intolerance.

You wouldn't criticize someone for dancing on Hitler's grave, or Torquemada's. Falwell was a Baptist version of Torquemada, and he enabled the American Hitler, George W. Bush.

I curse all of them, the fathers that impregnated their mothers, and the women that gave them birth.

As to Foxman, he showed his true colors when he joined the Venezuelan elites in a smear campaign against Chavez.

[bemildred]

23. LOL. Tell it.

Money grubbing weasels are all much alike, whatever sort of snake oil they are selling. There is big money in fear, and they all sell that.

[barb162]

24. Well you can waste your time dancing on his grave all you want

because he won't know about it, will he.

Although Chavez is off-topic, hasn't that two bit dictator been trying to stifle freedom of the press in Venezuela?

[Violet_Crumble]

30. I'm not mourning the death of that ugly bigot...

He was anti-semitic, anti-feminist, anti-liberal, anti-left, and anti-gay. But he was pro-Israel, so some 'supporters' of Israel like Foxman overlook the fact that he hated Jews and was no friend of Israel...

Chavez wasn't off-topic, as the ADL are the subject of this thread and their outright lies about Chavez are relevant. I find it ironic that the ADL falsely accused Chavez of being an anti-semite and now here's Foxman mourning the death of someone who's anti-Jewish statements were made in English and which he himself acknowledged were anti-semitic...

[barb162]

31. This has something to do with Chavez? That's news and also off-topic

"ADL's Foxman, Falwell critic, mourns him as 'dear friend of Israel'"

[Violet_Crumble]

32. You just had it explained to you why Chavez got mentioned. It's not off-topic...

Though using yr criteria, there's plenty of off-topic posts of yrs in plenty of other threads...

Now, back to Foxman mourning Falwell. Do you or don't you find it pathetic that Foxman would call an anti-semite like Falwell a 'dear friend of Israel'?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Violet_Crumble]

33. Jerry Falwell: Jews can't go to heaven without being converted to Jesus Christ...

Yep, real friend of the Jewish people was Jerry ;)

"Earlier today, reports began circulating across the globe that I have recently stated that Jews can go to heaven without being converted to Jesus Christ. This is categorically untrue." - Jerry Falwell

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=7030

'The Jews are returning to their land of unbelief. They are spiritually blind and desperately in need of their Messiah and Savior.' - Jerry Falwell, Listen, America!

http://atheism.about.com/library/glossary/western/bldef_falwelljerry.htm

Oh, and let's not forget that he thought the antichrist is a male Jew. From an article by Jeffrey Goldberg:

"In my opinion," he told me, "the Antichrist will be a counterfeit of the true Christ, which means that he will be male and Jewish, since Jesus was male and Jewish."

http://www.slate.com/id/45483/

[Tom Joad]

36. Reagan, who saluted the members of the Waffen-SS as "victims", yet the ADL awarded him with

the "Torch of Liberty Award".

Besides Reagan's support for those poor "victims", Reagan also supported the right-wing death squads of Guatemala and El Salvador, in what was, as Allan Nairn described it, one of the most intensive campaigns of mass murder in recent history.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/06/08/1453229

Reagan was also a key supporter of the Indonesia military campaign of genocide against the people of East Timor.

So not only did Reagan mourn dead fascists, but aided and abetted death squads in their work.
But it seems all that did not matter to the ADL, that never miss a political opportunity.

[Crunchy Frog]

40. Also gave an award to Silvio Berlusconi

after he defended Mussolini's treatment of the Jews IIRC.

I used to be under the impression that the ADL was a group primarily dedicated to combatting bigotry and intolerance. Now I know that they'll support any bigot whatsoever as long as that person supports Israel.

[barb162]

19. Oh, and Jesse Jackson said some nice things

``Over the years we became friends; sometimes we had polar opposite points of view. ... I have many fond memories of him. He leaves a great legacy of service and a great university behind. He's left his footprints in the sands of time.'' - The Rev. Jesse Jackson.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,,-6635984,00.html

[Violet_Crumble]

34. The Devil and Jerry Falwell

Chatting with the late reverend about Judaism and the Antichrist.
By Jeffrey Goldberg
Posted Tuesday, May 15, 2007, at 5:48 PM ET

The Rev. Jerry Falwell died Tuesday at age 73; he was pronounced dead shortly after he was found unresponsive in his office at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va. Falwell's most enduring legacy is likely to be his role in turning evangelical Christianity into an important part of the political right. But many will also remember him for his curious claim that the Antichrist was a living, male Jew. In 1999, Jeffrey Goldberg—living, male, and Jewish—visited the reverend to ask whether he, Goldberg, might possibly be the Antichrist.



Early one shiny autumn morning, I got in my car and drove to Lynchburg, Va., in order to find out whether or not I am the Antichrist. You know: the Beast, the Worthless Shepherd, the Little Horn, the Abomination, the linchpin of the Diabolical Trinity. That Antichrist.

I had my suspicions. Nowhere on my body could I find the mark of the Beast—666—but I do have a freckle that's shaped like Bermuda. And though I have never been seized by a desire to lead the armies of Satan in a final, bloody confrontation with the forces of God on the plain of Armageddon, I do suffer from aggravated dyspepsia, as well as chronic malaise, conditions that I'm sure afflict the Antichrist.

The surest suspicion I had about my pivotal role in Christian eschatology grew from the fact that I am Jewish, male, and alive. These are the qualifications for the job of Antichrist as specified by Lynchburg's most famous preacher, Jerry Falwell, in a speech he made earlier this year.

I was actually going to see the Rev. Falwell on a different matter, the future of Jerusalem, but I thought I might just slip this question—the one about me maybe being the Antichrist—into the stream of the interview. Falwell, I guessed, wouldn't be happy to discuss his views on the identity of the Antichrist—he had apologized for the remark but took quite a load of grief for it anyway.

As it turned out, though, Falwell was eager to talk about the Antichrist. And, as it also turned out, he didn't really feel bad for saying what he said. In fact, he was more convinced than ever that the Antichrist is a Jew who walks among us.

http://www.slate.com/id/2166221/

[Scurrilous]

38. A toxic legacy

<snip>

"It remains bewildering why Foxman, who has been at the forefront of challenging menacing Bible-thumpers like Falwell, saw fit to whitewash Jerry Falwell's toxic legacy. The two sparred on many occasions, and the loathing was apparently mutual. (Falwell recently told the journalist Zev Chafets that Foxman was a "damn fool.") And while there is an understandable tendency not to speak ill of the recently deceased, we should be clear-eyed about the damage Falwell has wrought. The jowly pastor from Lynchburg, Virginia, was many things over the course of his long life - a bigot and a demagogue are two that come quickly to mind - but he was definitely not a "dear friend" of the Jewish State or the Jewish people. He will not be missed."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/863011.html

[barb162]

37. Larry Flynt: My friend, Jerry Falwell

Larry Flynt: My friend, Jerry Falwell
How the pornographer found himself in the embrace of the reverend who sued him.
By Larry Flynt, LARRY FLYNT is the publisher of Hustler magazine and the author of "Sex, Lies and Politics."
May 20, 2007


THE FIRST TIME the Rev. Jerry Falwell put his hands on me, I was stunned. Not only had we been archenemies for 15 years, his beliefs and mine traveling in different solar systems, and not only had he sued me for $50 million (a case I lost repeatedly yet eventually won in the Supreme Court), but now he was hugging me in front of millions on the Larry King show.

It was 1997. My autobiography, "An Unseemly Man," had just been published, describing my life as a publisher of pornography. The film "The People vs. Larry Flynt" had recently come out, and the country was well aware of the battle that Falwell and I had fought: a battle that had changed the laws governing what the American public can see and hear in the media and that had dramatically strengthened our right to free speech.

King was conducting the interview. It was the first time since the infamous 1988 trial that the reverend and I had been in the same room together, and the thought of even breathing the same air with him made me sick. I disagreed with Falwell (who died last week) on absolutely everything he preached, and he looked at me as symbolic of all the social ills that a society can possibly have. But I'd do anything to sell the book and the film, and Falwell would do anything to preach, so King's audience of 8 million viewers was all the incentive either of us needed to bring us together.

snip


http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-op-flynt20may20,0,2297247.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail