Polish newspaper: Israeli security rude, aggressive toward residents

[bemildred]

The Krakow city council is looking into the behavior of Israeli security guards who accompany Israeli youth groups to Poland, Polish media have reported. The guards have been accused of acting rudely toward local residents and even using unnecessary force against them, including handcuffing people perceived as threatening to the Israeli young people. According to one newspaper, "Israeli security do what they wish with the Poles and treat residents and tourists as potential terrorists."

More than 20,000 Israeli teens visit Poland each year on Education Ministry programs to learn about the concentration camps and death camps. It has been argued that the visits are one-dimensional, ignore 800 years of Jewish history in Poland, and give participants the impression that the Poles were no less responsible than the Germans for the murder of Jews.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/862771.html

[papau]

1. impression that the Poles were no less responsible than the Germans for the murder of Jews" -correct

as to impression - the histories show that some folks could not wait to steal the belongings of the Jews in Poland and many indeed helped the Germans.

Just as in Germany not all were guilty, but then not all were innocent. The only plus for the Poles is that they weren't the ones that thought up the idea to the point of implementation - and that they also suffered under the Germans with many (3 million) killed.

There was both official and popular anti-Semitism in Poland before the war, at times encouraged by the Catholic Church and by some political parties- Some Poles betrayed hidden Jews to the Germans, and others made their living as "Jew-hunters", -But I am sure the kids learn that the Polish Government in Exile was also the first (in November 1942) to reveal the existence of Nazi-run concentration camps and the systematic extermination of the Jews by the Nazis, through its courier Jan Karski and through the activities of Witold Pilecki, a member of Armia Krajowa who volunteered to be imprisoned in Auschwitz in order to organize a resistance movement inside the camp itself.

During those 800 years there were good times - and bad times - and some have a hard time forgetting/forgiving the bad times. I am just glad when folks do not act on family histories.

So Israeli security guards stop folks from harassing the kids - my question would be why don't the Polish police do that job.

[breakaleg]

2. Perhaps you read a different article than the one linked... but it seems to me

that Israeli security forces handcuffing people when they aren't even in their own damned country is way way beyond the line. Unless of course they have different rules or something.

[papau]

3. The handcuffing is over the line but why did they feel it necessary? n/t

n/t

[breakaleg]

4. Hey, if you are not in your own country, then you'd best not cross any lines.

Frankly, I'd like to see them arrested and charged with assault, since that's what that was.

[emilyg]

5. So would I.

[Shaktimaan]

8. I have two answers to this...

#1

You would not consider it understandable if I made a decision to begin a program of intense violence against the population of Poland? What if I just implemented it against the people who are living in my house? If you find it understandable for Hezbollah to continue attacking Israel for years following Israel's withdrawl merely because of the earlier occupation then surely you would feel similarly about my decision to cut a swath of blood straight through Poland. I mean, if the Israelis "deserve whatever they get" then shouldn't the Poles?

What's the difference?

#2

Hey, if you are not in your own country, then you'd best not cross any lines.

Do you feel similarly about western protesters who break Israeli laws during many of their actions in Gaza or during security fence protests? Or would arresting them be denounced as "fascist" or something similar?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. Poland is not currently illegally occupying any other country.

Israel is. That's one big difference right there (although I don't think it justifies violence against civilians).

While protesting against an illegal act of oppression and handcuffing people without any legal authority are both technically illegal, they're clearly in no sense morally equivalent.

Most of the Israeli "security fence" isn't in Israel,anyhow.

[Lurking Dem]

12. Yet the entire nation was picked up and moved west

after WWII. No one is protesting for "right of return". No suicide bombers. No Poles trying to forge east with violence. Nobody screaming for the pre-war lines to be redrawn.

Just a lot of documented hatred of Jews.

[Igel]

28. Some Germans are bent out of shape over it.

They're not happy with the ethnic cleansing of Czechoslovakia and the loss of the eastern portions of Germany to Poland. Probably some are pissed they lost whatever Kaliningrad used to be called.

I suspect it would be interesting to see the distribution of anti-Jewish hatred. Lodz used to have a very large Jewish population, and I'm not sure how virulent the anti-Semitism was there ... unlike over near Bialystok, for example.

[Shaktimaan]

38. Interestingly...

my best friend is a Jewish immigrant from Lodz. He was young when he moved here but his parnets were not. I'll get back to you all on this.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

40. I guess this is what happens when you have nothing intelligent to add to the OP - attack those who

disagree with you pov. I can't even give you points for originality on this one.

[Jim Sagle]

41. I can 't give YOU points for anything but your typing.

[pelsar]

6. I actually enjoy your ranting....

i find it rather amusing in many respects....

[breakaleg]

7. Was someone talking to you?

[pelsar]

10. its called freedom of speech...

it allows people to make comments to a large degree when and where they feel like it. My own comments on this board are not always directed only to the "reply" but to the larger audience here as well.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[bemildred]

68. The notion that the current citizens of Poland, whatever their faults,

ought to somehow be held responsible for things that happened over 62 years ago while under Nazi military occupation in their conquered country is fatuous. One may criticize SOME FEW of the people living in Poland AT THAT TIME for their own actions, but that is all. One may criticize the current citizens of Poland for their own observable faults, but that is all. It is as wrong to stereotype Poles in general as anyone else. The Poles have suffered horribly in one war and occupation after another for centuries. They do have a long history of politically and religiously inspired anti-semitism, but that does not mean they are responsible for what Hitler and the Nazi's did. No, I am not Polish in any way or form, but that just needs to be said.

[Shaktimaan]

70. Agreed.

However it needs to be noted that modern day polls have named rural Poles as the most anti-Semitic people in all of Europe. I am firmly against carrying over blame for atrocities, no matter how severe, over many generations. But Poland is well-known for having an extremely anti-semitic population by modern standards. For example, I read a poll recently that had an absurd amount of the whole country believing that Jews had undue influence in the inner workings of their government. This besides the fact that Poland doesn't really have any Jews anymore.

I am not anti-Polish by any means. I dated a girl a few years ago who was Polish, (as in, from Poland and still living there) and am partly Polish myself. But we should give credit where credit is due. The Poles have a problem with anti-semitism in their nation.

[Shaktimaan]

9. did you read the comments?

As a participant of the March of the Living in 1998, and the 60th anniversary of the Lodz Ghetto liquidation, I can only add that the rudeness by the Israeli security did not occur on my trip in 1998. On the contrary, I was a witness to more antisemitic incidents perpetrated by Poles, involving more than `rudeness` (throwing of bottles, shouts of `heil hitler`, swastikas and stars of david graffitti, remains of a recent synagogue bombing, the marketing of stereotypical Jewish doll figures) in the week that I was in Poland than in my entire lifetime living in Canada. I think the mentality behind these disgusting yet shamelessly perpetrated acts which I saw with my own eyes, may have come into play during one of these incidents.

I have personally experienced polish hatred of Jews when i was on a trip in Poland with a school. They attacked us on the streets and our security guard had to call police to hold them back im not talking about a few people but a hoard at least a dozen men. Others tried to run us over in another town when we were getting on the bus. They then followed the bus until we called the cops to stop the car.
There is a reason for the Israeli security being tight and with Haaretz`s history this may not even have happened. I felt my life was being threatened by people living next to a death camp where my grandparents where terrorized years ago.

My son have participated in the "March of the living" in 2004. That`s what he saw there - hatred in the eyes.
And yes - Poles were much more enthusiastic that most European nations in helping Nazis to exterminate Jews.

[msmcghee]

13. Thanks for filling us in with the background that explains . .

. . what's going on in this news story - a story that made it seem like Israeli security accompanying Jewish students on educational tours were being "rude and aggressive toward residents of Poland" for no good reason, except perhaps that they were being "typically rude and aggressive Jews".

I note that the story was a Haaretz story about Polish news stories - about how the Polish press was reporting these incidents. It's interesting to see how (the Polish newspapers in this case) play the antisemitism card so casually - by their use of certain stereotypical terms in their headlines and by what they do not explain.

But it's also interesting how in this forum that some of the initial comments were not about the misleading Polish headlines - they instead picked up the same phrases and accusations - no questioning, no looking for any explanation - suggesting that the Israeli security should be arrested and that they should watch their step when in a foreign country. It's interesting to see how eagerly the worst possible interpretation of their actions was accepted without question. And this by people who so casually insinuate in their comments that I and others here are bigoted. papau's comments were balanced and informative, thanks papau.

I also notice that the op who dropped this story into the I/P forum - choosing to excerpts paragraphs that make the antisemitism the subject rather than the object of the story as it was more clearly laid out in the Haaretz article - saw no need to make further comments of his own.

Lest anyone not understand, let me be clear. I am prejudiced - against people who consistently find that the solution to all their problems involves the wanton killing of innocent civilians. I am even more prejudiced when those people seem to always find - in their actions and the words they use to justify them - that Jews (or any other particular ethnic or religious group) are the civilians that most need killing. I don't care if they are Lithuanian, Polish or Palestinian. And I have little patience for Americans or other westerners who support them by pretending to support the "human rights" of those doing the killing.

[breakaleg]

14. where did you get the bit about "typically rude and aggressive Jews"?

I didn't see it in the article. Did you make it up? Because you did put it in quotes.

Every security detail should watch their steps in a foreign country. Especially when it comes to assaulting the locals. This is common sense.

This story had 5 paragraphs, all of them only one sentence each. You sure got a lot of information out of it that wasn't there.

[msmcghee]

15. Quotes can mean more than one thing.

In this case they are used to emphasize that those are not my sentiments but typical sentiments of many others - a common stereotype.

[breakaleg]

16. Again, where did you get it? There was nothing like that in the article so who are these others?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

18. Why? Because those sentiments weren't even hinted at in the article and you refuse to admit it?

That's your issue.

[parkia00]

19. That's the main problem then isn't it?

About your last paragraph. The trouble starts when some people simply associate an entire group of people with a simple stereotypical connection whether it be "typically rude and aggressive Jews" or typically violent extremist Palestinians terrorists. Sure there are Jews that fit the description above as well as Palestinians that fit this description. But I think it's logical to say that most don't. It's always one small group of people that behave in the worst manner that brings about such characterization that becomes a stigmata which ultimately effects all their own people leading to prejudice and even death. When one group sees the other through tainted eyes and the other group sees through much the same, it makes war, violence, hatred and killings a much easier thing to do. After all some would argue that these people cannot be dealt with like normal people. They are violent killers because these people are just like that. So the only (easiest solution) is to simply use violence because that is the only thing they understand.

[msmcghee]

20. Good point, but in this case . .

. . you are comparing two different things.

I used the term prejudice to describe my view (perhaps the ironic intent was too subtle) - but qualified it as to specific actions of some Palestinians. That applies it to specific people who do certain things - not a group of people identifiable by ethnicity or religion. I judge people by their words and actions - not their group affiliation (unless that group is specifically associated with certain repugnant actions and views, like Nazis for example)

In my post I limited my condemnation to - people who consistently find that the solution to all their problems involves the wanton killing of innocent civilians. I am even more prejudiced when those people seem to always find - in their actions and the words they use to justify them - that Jews (or any other particular ethnic or religious group) are the civilians that most need killing.

Condemnation and bearing responsibility are not the same thing. To be clear, I do not condemn all Palestinians - even though they must bear responsibility for the actions of their government - just as you and I do for the actions of our government.

I don't condemn all Americans or myself for the actions of GWB - just as I do not condemn all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas - even though we all must bear moral responsibility for those actions and will eventually have to pay for them in various ways. That's one of the prices we pay for the right to elect our government.

[Robson]

21. Someone comes to your house and bullies and acts like an ass - don't come back

WTF....how does a foreign country get off bullying and handcuffing residents at whim?

Although with these private military armies running around our country guarding the rich and famous we might soon face the same treatment.

The solution is simple. If I was the Polish President I'd tell Israel to either respect the residents and others in Poland, and act like a visitor, or refuse them entry.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

22. It's not "a foreign country", as far as I can tell.

The article appears to be about some Israelis behaving badly in Poland, not about any arm of the Israeli state doing so.

[Robson]

23. Handcuffing and bullying is more than bad behavior, wouldn't you agree

Possibly I don’t understand your point. Didn’t it say “Israeli security guards”? I’m surmising they could be private, IDF government or government forces under special contract, but I think it reasonable to surmise that they were from Israel along with the school children.

In any case these non-resident security guards were demonstrating more than bad behavior. Pushing, bullying and handcuffing citizens and tourists is considered criminal behavior by most first world countries.

As an example, if you as an American, were visiting the Smithsonian in Washington and Israeli security guards escorting a group of Israeli school children started to push you around and handcuff your family members because they didn’t like your behavior…. outrage would be an understatement.

Am I misreading the article?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

24. You said "how does a foreign country get off doing this?"

My point is that it's not Israel doing this, it's a group of Israelis.

If I were handcuffed by an Israeli security guard, my outrage would be directed at them personally, and at their employer, not at Israel.

I'm not sure "more than bad behaviour" makes sense - there's no upper bound on bad behaviour; mass murder is clearly bad behaviour. You can use stronger terms too if you want, but they're not mutually exclusive, and without knowledge of the context I'd be inclined to use a more moderate term - the article may not be a fair representation of the event; it may omit mitigating circumstances, for example.

[Robson]

25. I believe it more than bad behavior of individuals

Sorry based upon what I read, I have to disagree.

I will surmise that Israeli school children escorted by guards on these trips is an institutional thing mandated by the Israeli government. That makes the bad behavior of said guards in Poland more than the individual behavior of mere tourists visiting a country. These guards represent Israel. It's similar to those American troops in Japan accused of raping young girls. The fallout hurts the USA, the military and the individual must accept the ultimate blame and face charges.

[Lurking Dem]

26. So you believe the Polish articles wholesale?

[Robson]

27. Whom should we believe?

I'm an objective American, not a Polish or Israeli apologist. It's the Pole's country, and if the Poles say it then my guess is much of it is true. What other motive would they have? What motive would some have to trivialize it? If it was the USA and this behavior occured I'd say STF out.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3402765,00.html

Quote: The article published in Przekroj, titled “Young Israeli’s run amok in Poland”, describes incidents of Israeli teens playing football in the hotel hallway at 2 am, burning carpets, breaking furniture, and leaving a mess in their beds and sinks.

Other teens were accused of hiring a stripper, and still others were said to have humiliated flight attendants while flying with the Polish Lot Airlines.

The article also criticized Shin Bet guards, and featured quotes by locals claiming that the guards beat them and forced them to undergo humiliating security checks.

[msmcghee]

30. Smell test?

The article also criticized Shin Bet guards, and featured quotes by locals claiming that the guards beat them and forced them to undergo humiliating security checks.

I'm not sure what kinds of laws they have in Poland but in almost any democracy there are laws against unlawful detention, kidnapping, assault, etc. - which according to these "un-named locals" the Shin Bet guards violated.

Instead of " Polish newspaper: Israeli security rude, aggressive toward residents"

. . why are we not reading about Polish headlines that quote actual government officials that say "Shin Bet Security Guards Arrested for Assault and Kidnapping"?

Could it be because the story is bullshit?

I guess if it's an accusation that some Jews someplace in the world did something bad - there's no reason to question the story - because we all know about Jews and their incredible power and capacity for evil, even in foreign countries where the local police are apparently powerless to protect their citizens.

Sarcasm icon omitted as part of the ongoing half-wit elimination program which after reading this thread seems more urgent than ever.

[Lurking Dem]

31. Yet stories from the Iranian Press Agency

are deemed "propaganda" on a regular basis.

Hmmmmmmm.

[Robson]

Wouldn't one assume that the JP, Haaretz, ynetnews, etc have vetted it?

because they all published articles on it. BTW the Polish newspaper that published was named above, but their internet site does not have an English language version.

I agree, and my first question was why haven't Polish authorities either arrested the perps or banned the trips if the children and guards can't behave. That is what I'd expect from our government under similar circumstances. Call me old fashioned but I'm a big believer in showing common courtesy by both guests and hosts, with a larger onus on guests...whether visiting an individual home or the home of many (as in country).

[msmcghee]

33. The story was about the Polish headlines.

It was not about the truthfulness of the what those headlines were describing.

It was quite useful in any case in the sense of exposing hypocrisy. As Lurking Dem pointed out, the Iranian News Service can publish a verbatim transcript of Iran's president promising the demise of the Jewish state according to their own translators - and we get several threads here with dozens of posts explaining how he really didn't meant that - exactly.

But any news story, no matter how fishy and lacking in any corroborating evidence, without any quoted sources - as long as it says something bad about Jews - is taken as the gospel truth and indignantly defended in this forum.

As one poster above put it . .

"It's the Pole's country, and if the Poles say it then my guess is much of it is true. What other motive would they have? What motive would some have to trivialize it?"

Remarkable. Thanks to the op for dropping this hypocrisy bait on us.

[Robson]

34. No preconceived opinions here...are there?

Actually it was I who posted that the Polish people, as they are the hosts and supposed "victims" of abuse, who should be most able to make the call on it, not the guests. To the Polish it is a big deal as it would be in the USA or any other country. I don't pay much attention to what the kids did, as kids are kids and those on a field trip can be obnoxious. However I do fully empathize with the Polish people being upset for being manhandled by some outside intelligence force. I fail to understand why the Polish don't simply ban these school trips if they are being abused.

So...are you an objective observer or someone who claims or believes that anyone who says anything remotely negative about Israel has either ulterior motives or is lying? Most of us have preconceived notions but some have highly biased views.

[Jim Sagle]

37. "and if the Poles say it then my guess is much of it is true."

Wrong guess.

[Robson]

39. If true would Shin Bet admit it?

And Israli Shin Bet would admit it if the stories were true? Most of us have the common sense, objectivity and rationality to know that it would be swept under the covers by Shin Bet (and of course the Israeli apologists). Some are so biased as to believe Israel has the right to do anything anywhere. I don't think so.

The whole point of the Pole's story is to make it end.

[Jim Sagle]

42. No, the whole point is to bash Jews, same as it ever was.

And everybody goddamn well knows it.

[Robson]

43. Interesting response and belief

Now that's an interesting response. I conclude that you believe if anyone criticizes Israel, they are Jew bashing and therefore by deduction anti-Semitic. If so then you must truly believe that Jews and Israel must be judged by a different standard than the rest of the world. I don't think so and I'm not anti-Semitic.

In all honesty, I don't consider Jews or Israel as anything special as compared to any other ethnic group or country.

What's your opinion?

[Jim Sagle]

44. You're nothing special either, pal.

[Robson]

45. With all due respect

Why did you answer my legitimate question with another question that is confrontational and personal? If you don't care to (or can't answer) then don't answer it, but it doesn't advance discussion to personally demean others. That's only my opinion.

[Jim Sagle]

46. I get it. You can make snotty comments but I can't respond in kind.

[Robson]

47. OK I get it you did answer

Because I asked if you considered Jews and Israel as something special, as compared to the rest of the world's population then my question was snotty? Get a life my friend. Jews, Israel, just like the France, French, English, Chinese, Christians, Muslim, Americans, etc. are nothing special. We/they are only a part of the world's population.... and like others deserve respect but nothing special. Based upon your response I sense you truly believe otherwise.

[Jim Sagle]

48. No one said they WERE special, brainiac.

But they sure get a lot of special attention on DU.

Like this thread, for instance.

[Robson]

49. Untouchables?

Would the "Untouchables" as a descriptor better meet your requirements as non-snotty sir?

Except that 99% of the world believes that criticism of Israel is sometimes warranted and based upon the OP it is.

Some appear to blindly support Israel and then foolishly and vehemently attack any criticism with claims of racism. I suggest that the outcome of such frivolous philosophy may drive the claims more to reality than the reverse, and such claims will become a causal instead of preventive factor.

Thanks for the insight. I rarely visit this forum, but I find this obvious bias toward Israel by some, and against other countries as interesting. I'll check-in to the forum more regularly.

[Lurking Dem]

50. Confusing criticism of Israel

with criticism of Jews (which is what the article was doing) doesn't help much.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lurking Dem]

54. First of all

nowhere in the article does it say there was Shin Bet or that anyone was representing the nation of Israel in any official capacity.

Secondly, I was not blindly defending Israel, nor have I ever done so.

Thirdly, my call for not conflating Israel with Jews (or, specifically to this article, conflating the nation of Israel with her individual citizens) is hardly a call to "muddy" anything but pointedly the contrary.

[Jim Sagle]

51. Projection is such an easy game to play.

Aong with sly antisemitic threats:

I suggest that the outcome of such frivolous philosophy may drive the claims more to reality than the reverse, and such claims will become a causal instead of preventive factor.

[Robson]

53. Always remember the Golden Rule

The key to getting along in this world (countries and individuals) is fairness and objectivity and an ability to empathize with others. The "golden rule" works too.....except the one that is promoted by some that says those with the gold rule.

[Jim Sagle]

55. Another sly antisemitic dig.

The "golden rule" works too.....except the one that is promoted by some that says those with the gold rule.

Seek help.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[oberliner]

57. I didn't realize the National Review was a progressive publication

This guy also promotes intelligent design over evolution and is a Senior Fellow at the Discovery Institute.

Odd choice for recommended reading on a site like DU.

[Robson]

58. Referring to this article not his total ideology

My point was not his total political ideology but his views in this one article of over-reading anti-Semitism in every syllable or word or intonation. Although I'm not a fan or regular reader of National Review (I prefer Atlantic Monthly for in depth articles) I seem to recollect some very critical articles about Bush.

[oberliner]

59. Some responses to that article can be found here

http://www.leaderu.com/ftissues/ft9808/opinion/klinghoffer.html

The first response begins this way:

As a member of the Editorial Board of First Things since its inception, I protest the publication of David Klinghoffer’s "Anti-Semitism Without Anti-Semites" (April). . . . The article is nothing less than evil—evil, not just misguided, because its intent is clearly to hurt, and without any greater, justifiable end to permit its angry words. . . . The evil of this article comes across on three different levels: political, moral, and theological—especially theological.

<End of excerpt>

Several other responses to the article are at the above link.

[Lurking Dem]

61. That article managed to disparage

Jews - both secular and religious - African Americans, Asians, and people with AIDS.

Did I miss anyone?

[Jim Sagle]

60. Your biased comments are there on screen for all to see - no need for a BS diagnosis.

[Igel]

29. I'd like a link to the Polish articles,

or--gasp!--the name of the newspaper so I could track it down myself. Sometimes the rest of the article puts the bit cited in a different light; sometimes not.

But, no, no actual names. Just 'unnamed sources said'.

[Violet_Crumble]

62. Here's a link...

Source: Przekrój weekly of May the 10th 2007
Author:
English translation: SPOŁEM group for MoPoPressReview

A young polish Jew, who as usual in Sabbath, went to pray in his synagogue couple months ago, also didn’t get his answer. He only asked, why can’t he enter the temple. Instead of an answer, he got kicked.
- ‘I saw this with my own eyes’ - says Mike Urbaniak, the editor of Forum Of Polish Jews and correspondent of European Jewish Press in Poland. - ‘I saw how my friend is being brutally attacked by security agents from Israel, without any reason.’

All this apparently in sake of Israeli childrens’ safety.
- ‘For Poles it may be difficult to understand, but security agents accompany Israelis at all times, both in Israel and abroad’ - explains Michał Sobelman, a spokesman for Israeli embassy in Poland. - ‘This is a parents’ demand, otherwise they wouldn’t agree for any kind of trip. Poland is no exception.’

But it was in Poland, as Mike Urbaniak reports, where Jews from Israel brutally kicked a Polish Jew in front of a synagogue, and then threatened him with prison. Israeli teenagers could watch.

- ‘We are very sorry when we hear about such incidents’ - Sobelman admits - ‘Detailed analysis is carried out in each case. We will do everything we can, to prevent such situations in the future. Maybe we will have to change training methods of our security agents, so that they would know Poland is not like Israel, that the scale of threats here is insignificant?

Professor Moshe Zimmermann, head of German History Institute at Hebrew University in Jerusalem thinks however, that the problem is not only in the security agents’ behaviour. He thinks Israelis basically think that Poles aren’t equal partners for them. And it’s not only that they think Poles can’t ensure their children’s safety.

- ‘They are not equal partners to any kind of discussion. It applies also to our common history, contemporary history and politics. In result Israeli youth see Poles as second category people, as potential enemies’ - he explains bluntly.

An instruction on conduct with the local inhabitants given away to Israeli teenagers coming to Poland couple years ago may confirm professor’s opinion. It contained such a paragraph: ‘Everywhere we will be surrounded by Poles. We will hate them because of their participation in Holocaust’.

- ‘Agendas of our teenagers’ trips to Poland are set in advance by the Israeli government, and are not flexible’ - says Ilona Dworak-Cousin, the chairwoman of the Polish-Israeli Friendship Association in Israel. - ‘Those trips basically come down to visiting, one by one, the places of extermination of Jews. From that perspective Poland is just a huge Jewish graveyard. And nothing more. Meeting living people, for those who organise these trips, is meaningless.’


http://polishpress.wordpress.com/2007/05/11/israeli-teenagers-are-a-nuisance-in-poland/

This isn't aimed at you, but at two posters in this thread who leapt in immediately making accusations of antisemitism against Poles and the Polish media for daring to point out that Israeli security guards are being rude and aggressive towards locals. Did it occur to either of you that some of the people complaining about the behaviour of the Israeli security guards are Polish Jews? And does it occur to you that when a spokesman from the Israeli embassy says that they are investigating the behaviour of the security guards and that training methods may have to be changed so that the behaviour doesn't continue, that there is a problem, and that problem isn't about the perception in Poland of Jews, but the perception of Israeli security guards?

[breakaleg]

63. Thanks for clearing that up. Now I'll sit patiently and wait for the string of apologies

from those who brought forward charges of antisemitism.

[Violet_Crumble]

64. Don't hold yr breath waiting :)

The translation of a Polish article will either be ignored or met with torrents of abuse and more knee-jerk accusations of antisemitism...

My favourite knee-jerk accusation moment in this thread is an accusation that the headline 'Polish newspaper: Israeli security rude, aggressive toward residents' is antisemitic :)

[oberliner]

65. I call BS on this

An instruction on conduct with the local inhabitants given away to Israeli teenagers coming to Poland couple years ago may confirm professor’s opinion. It contained such a paragraph: ‘Everywhere we will be surrounded by Poles. We will hate them because of their participation in Holocaust’.

[Violet_Crumble]

66. You can call BS on it if you like...

I'm not particularly interested as you seem intent on not reading the entire article and instead focusing on little bits of it that you think you can pull apart...

A question for you, oberliner. I posted a translation of an article that gives much more detail about the rudeness and abuse of Israeli security guards in Poland than the OP did. All it takes is a quick read of the article to become aware that not only are Polish Jews falling victim to the abuse (hence all those knee-jerk claims of antisemitism in this thread look pretty stupid), but that Israeli officials are aware of the problem and are looking at ways of changing the behaviour. Do you think it's antisemitic for Poles to complain about the way they're being treated by security guards? And what measures do you think could be taken to solve it?

[oberliner]

67. In response to your questions

First, I think it's totally legit to make note of something from an article of questionable truthfulness in order to cast doubt on the accuracy of the article as a whole.

But to answer your questions, I do not think it's antisemitic for Poles to complain about mistreatment by Israeli security guards. Assuming the reports are accurate, I would think that the communication with the Israeli embassy in Poland would lead to a change in the offending behavior.

The spokesman from the Israeli embassy in Poland is quoted in the article as saying, "We will do everything we can, to prevent such situations in the future."

If, however, it turns out that the reporting of the incidents was exagerrated or otherwised embellished (as seems to be the case from the quote I cited in my response) then I think one would have to ask the question of why the reporting of this situation was done in that matter.

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69. Deleted message

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