Two Fatah men killed in Gaza; Hamas threatens W. Bank battles

[pelsar]

"I will not live in a Hamas-run state," said Shadi, a fighter from Fatah, after fleeing Gaza for the West Bank, via Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/871541.html

so i guess gaza is now occupied by hamas? hence the refugees running to the "apartheid" state (funny how that is, they prefer the israelis to their own)

and the egyptian/rafah border is now in the hands of hamas...that makes it a egypt/hamas issue.
________

so whats a "progressive" to do?.....israel may control 3/4 of their borders but not the fourth. That leaves only the fantasy that israel contols gaza.

[breakaleg]

1. First of all, where is this from? Is there a news story you'd like to link?

Secondly, your glee is disgusting. You think that 40 years of occupation somehow equates to this situation in Gaza? You seem to be taking random accusations that have been legitimately leveled towards Israel's treatment of Palestinians, and with no basis at all, now directing those same charges towards Palestinians.

How would what's going on there right now constituted and "apartheid state"? Care to back that up?

[pelsar]

2. my "glee"...

is directed at the hypocrisy of the "progressives" with their constant complaints of israel human rights violations over the years and their excuses for the palestenians....it should be clear as day to even those "progressives" as its been to me for years the two standards.

i have yet to hear the crys for bringing to justice those hamas men who tossed the fatah cook down the 15 stories to his death.....

i have yet to hear the "bring to the intl court" the hamas officers in charge of the operations where they attacked homes with civilians inside.

I have yet to hear the outrage at the hamas men who killed the non violent Palestinian protesters during a protest march.....

why is there silence?

furthermore, unlike some here, who have made it clear that a theocratic dictatorship is none of anybody's business (who have a tradition of no tolerance for homosexuals etc) i believe that such a thing is nothing more than a disaster for the citizens of gaza and the whole region..(maybe the ISM and UN should have taught civil rights....)

I have heard the "cry" from Palestinians that occupation was better than what they got now and that the want the israelis back... (but thats kind of tough for a "progressive" to hear, it kind of ruins they're belief that they know whats best for the Palestinians.)


you read to fast, my comment about the apartheid state was directed at the accusations about israel...

[breakaleg]

3. Take it easy. The situation is still very much ongoing. I'm sure that any human rights

abuses will be called out when things calm down and the respective agencies get a chance to address those issues. You see, there are some of us that care about civilians on all sides of this thing and we will be quite eager to see all abuses dealt with.

I have yet to see an ounce of compassion from your 'side' in this thing. In fact, it seems the "glee" I mentioned can barely be contained.

[pelsar]

4. you've got to be kidding?

I'm sure that any human rights abuses will be called out when things calm down and the respective agencies get a chance to address those issues

how much time?....you tell me and i'll be sure to "put it in my calander"...and when they're long forgotten (like when hamas attacked and killed the Palestinian school children) I'll remind you and I'm sure you'll have some kind of excuse blaming the non existent occupation.

btw when israel attacked lebanon i dont recall there was a "lag time"...so why is there now?

but lets at least clarify which agencies: UN? doctors without borders? HRW?, the EU? British academics?


but no, "the progressives" give only lip service to the israeli civilians... furthermore the progressives who are so eager to get rid of the occupation have expressed (and i believe this includes you) an amazing lack of interest in "post occupation"...well it appears we are now in "post occupation in gaza with a whole new govt. (but that could also be declared an occupier)

i understand that they've declared the koran the basis for the laws of gaza...i'm sure many a Palestinian will find those laws a lot harsher than any occupation..but then hey...i guess religious repression from your own is better than a secular occupation (though again it seems quite a few Palestinians disagree with that).

I dont have to "play a compassion" game. i have a clear hierarchy of lives that are important to me (as we all do). My concern for citizen palestine goes as far as how it affects me. The better their lives are the better mine will be, in essence my concern for them is way beyond yours since i'm affect directly...i dont believe you are.

[azurnoir]

5. Actually they already have

Human Rights Watch

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/13/isrlpa16156.htm

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/06/16/isrlpa16199.htm

edited to correct link

[pelsar]

6. the calls to Hague?

HRW and Bets'alem have noticed...but I'm talking about a single standard here.....

remember lebanon? and the calls of israeli war crimes?...remember the shells that landed in Beit hanun and the calls for investigation (A UN mission to investigate the deaths.....)

remember this:
Killing of civilians in Lebanon is likely to subject Israeli soldiers to war crime trials in international courts, UN human rights high commissioner says
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3278907,00.html

______

do you really believe the "cry" of war crimes will be heard

[azurnoir]

7. The UN condemned

both Israel and Hezbollah

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=20134&Cr=middle&Cr1=east


To concede there may not a "cry" to bring Haneya or Abbas to the Hauge.

[rayofreason]

8. Well what do you know?

The pathology will not, can not, be contained.