Israeli airstrike targets Gaza

[maddezmom]

JERUSALEM - Israeli aircraft attacked Palestinian rocket launchers in northern Gaza on Wednesday, in the first Israeli airstrike since Hamas militants seized control of the coastal strip last week, the army said.

There were no immediate reports of casualties.

Aircraft attacked two rocket launchers after one rocket hit near the Israeli town of Sderot, the army said.

Palestinians regularly fire rockets from Gaza into Israel, drawing Israeli retaliation.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians;_ylt=ApGjxeXhHbIQTiox6Pd9jiKs0NUE

[oberliner]

1. Israeli planes, tanks hit Gaza

EREZ CROSSING, Gaza Strip - Israel fired missiles and sent tanks on a foray into Gaza on Wednesday, killing four Palestinians in the deadliest military action since Hamas militants took control of the coastal strip.

At the same time, Israel eased restrictions on travel in and out of Gaza, letting in a few seriously ill or wounded Palestinians who had been holed up for days at a fetid border crossing.

A teenager with leukemia and four other Palestinians in need of medical care went through the tunnel at the Erez crossing in Israel, the military said. Israeli officials also authorized entry of all foreign nationals living in Gaza.

Israel's Supreme Court was hearing a petition by a human rights group demanding that Israeli authorities also offer immediate medical treatment to 26 critically ill Palestinians hospitalized in Gaza.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070620/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians;_ylt=AjNgkg8WsVCBjMinpA0D88es0NUE

[ShortnFiery]

2. There they go again! Campaigning to win the Palestinians' Hearts and Minds.

I'm sure that they will NOW immediately disavow Hamas since Israel and the USA has ordered them to do so. :eyes:

Truth be told, these agressive actions are the best recruiting tools for organizations such as Hamas. Bravo. :(

[Kagemusha]

3. I can't complain about hitting those actively rocketing Israel.

And I would not consider that to be an aggressive action.

'Course, that leaves the undercover operation that led to a shootout... (Edit: That was the West Bank though wasn't it?)

[ShortnFiery]

4. Yeah, and what the hell we kill a few kids and civilians - we're not state sponsored terrorists

it's merely collateral damage. But somehow, those innocents are JUST AS DEAD. :(

[Kagemusha]

5. Well, you're quite right about that.

The nonviolent Gazans (and there's plenty of them) just can't catch a break.

[Hangingon]

7. Isreal has lost lots of innocent civilians to those rockets.

[ShortnFiery]

8. Oh, so it's the old "eye for an eye" rationale?

:eyes:

[Kagemusha]

20. Retaliation's one thing.

Shooting people who are literally in the act of shooting at you is just not something that can be fairly complained about.

[Hangingon]

44. No. Just you shoot at us, we shoot back.

Why should I have more sympathy for Palestinian civilians than Israeli.

[barb162]

45. No, it's about self defense.

I'm sorry you have a problem with a nation defending itself.

[pelsar]

6. so your one of those...

who prefer the kassams on sederot .....and that israel shouldnt do anything about it...nice to meet you.

so perhaps i can get a straight answer. As i understand it (and this is what i've been lead to believe) that given the limitations of technologly its far better for the kassams to land on sederot and the surrounding villages and farms, terrorize the israeli civilians in the attempts to kill them, rather than have israel do anything to stop them (I repeat using todays technologies).

or if you believe otherwise, would you have an immediate suggestion for the IDF and govt of israel?....something that might work tomorrow?
(in the interest of brevity, i might remind you that gaza and egypt share a border with no interference from israel or the EU)

[ShortnFiery]

9. I might remind you that "an eye for an eye" makes the world BLIND. n/t

[AviBaruch]

10. That's always a lovely sentiment

espoused only when the hitee decides to hit back.

[ShortnFiery]

12. Nothing's EVER solved by perpetuating the cycle of violence - you KNOW that!

But gee, I'm originally from Nebraska, so I have no dog in this fight (not Jewish, not Muslim), so if you folks over in the Middle East want to kill each other till the cows come home, it's just NOT my (the USA's) call. :shrug:

All I want is for our illustrious Leaders to EXTRACT USA's TROOPS out of that hellhole!

Specifically, since neither party wishes to act *sane* then "getting the HELL out of Dodge" (the entire Middle East Arena) is the only alternative lest we continue to get caught in the crossfire of your never-ending murder and retribution OVER Religion. :thumbsdown:

Then hopefully we (USA) can begin to discipline Pentagon spending and stop acting like the Worlds' Police Force. :thumbsup:

[pelsar]

13. still short of a suggestion...

israel left gaza (i.e breaking the cylce of violence...or at least tried to)...gaza has a border with egypt....palestenians in gaza shoot missiles over the intl border to kill israelis.....

and you seem to think its wrong for israel to do anything about it.....did i get that right?

[ShortnFiery]

15. What you need to "get right" is that this whole killing and retribution gig is Israel-Palestine.

I wish we could build a big wall around you folks - so you'd either kill each other off of the map OR learn to live together.

What I don't want is "proxy wars" and USA troops dying for NOTHING that we have any TRUE stake in, i.e., it's NOT our neighborhood.

Good luck. I'm EQUALLY disgusted with both Israeli and Palestinian factions. :nuke:

Kill each other off until the end of time but leave USA troops out of your religious war. :thumbsdown:

[Shaktimaan]

17. I wasn't aware that the US had any troops involved in the I/P conflict. np

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Shaktimaan]

24. The UN didn't clear the way for Israel.

Israel was a country in all but name prior to the UN's existence. The Middle East has been on fire since WW one and the collapse of the Ottoman empire. And much of the fighting has very little to do with Israel.

But I am surprised that a progressive would support Israel leaving the ME. How's this work... the Arab countries decide that they don't want their Jews any longer. Europe decides the same. So your solution for this minority population of refugees is to ship them off to Alaska, or some other out of the way gulag, I presume.

What if the Eskimos don't want the Jews then either?

[ShortnFiery]

26. "What if the Eskimos don't want the Jews then either?" Then be SECULAR like the good ole' USA. n/t

[Shaktimaan]

29. Israel is secular.

You don't know much about this topic, do you?

[ShortnFiery]

30. Wait a minute! You can't have it both ways. Which is it = Jewish? or Israel? n/t

[Shaktimaan]

34. Jewish is an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture.

Israel exists as a bulwark against anti-semitism. It is not a religious state. You do not even need to be Jewish to immigrate or gain citizenship. Most of the people are secular Jews. You can be secular and still be Jewish.

Japan is the Japanese state, yet still manages to be secular.

I think you are getting hung up on Judaism being anything other than a religion.

[ShortnFiery]

35. No other democratic country is so "rigid" in citizenship requirements.

You have to admit that there's a strong undercurrent of religion that is fueling the slaughter? ;)

[Shaktimaan]

37. No, there's an undercurrent of xenophobia and nationalism that fuels the slaughter.

This fight is not about religion. Some religious people have adopted it as a cause. But the Zionists and the Palestinians are both secular for the most part. This fight is not over nonsense. It is over very real issues and as such there is no simple solution that exists. Neither side is made up of slavering fundamentalists who are fighting because they believe that it is God's will. That isn't to say such people don't exist. They do. But they are a minority on both sides.

[AviBaruch]

39. Please educate us on these rigid

citizenship requirements.

[Meshuga]

41. I would also like to know

about these rigid requirenments for citezenship.

Welcome to the DU, AviBaruch!

[LeftishBrit]

48. You're mistaken about Israel's citizenship requirements

There's a lot of confusion around about the 'Law of Return'. This law means that all Jews (that is, ethnic Jews; there is no religious requirement) CAN get citizenship, if they wish to and are prepared to go through the necessary procedures, including renouncing other citizenship. It does not mean that ONLY Jews can get citizenship; and in fact it's quite possible for non-Jews to get it. Moreover, a fair number of non-Jews - Israeli Arabs and Druze - are native-born citizens of Israel. While there is undoubtedly some prejudice and discrimination against them, they are regarded as citizens.

[ShortnFiery]

50. Sincere thanks for the understandable explanation!

Yes, I was in error, big time. :blush:

I still don't understand why you continue the cycle of killing and retributions against each other, but I do appreciate your clear explanation regarding "The Right of Return." :hi:

[rayofreason]

54. German "Right of Return"

You might be interested in German rules for citizenship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nationality_law

Israel looks pretty open throughout its history by comparison.

[pelsar]

55. cycle of killing and retributions against each other

its not the difficult to understand: Just take an honest look at gaza:

2 years ago israel, destroyed the settlements in gaza and left:...that could be described as "breaking the cycle.'...Isnt that what the complaint is? the settlements?.....What was the reaction from the Palestenian side?

30 rockets in to israel, across the border......what happened even after israel did nothing....more rockets....and more rockets......(without any killing or retribution from israel in the beginning)

what happened last summer in Lebanon?....israel was not in lebanon, was not "attacking lebanon".....what did israel get?....kidnappings and rockets.

perhaps your question shouldnt be about the "cycle of killing"..maybe it should be why are those groups attacking israel from across the intl borders?.....

[barb162]

51. Got a link?

You might want to check Saudi Arabia and a few other Mideast countries for citizenship requirments. Then go to other continents and check various countries for citizenship requirements.

[azurnoir]

53. The US has military "trainers" in

the West Bank formerly in Gaza

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x177474

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShortnFiery]

27. Yes, the hate never ends. How sweet. n/t

[AviBaruch]

38. It's amazing how many "progressives"

only see hate when Israel responds and fail to see it when Hamas shoots rockets at their homes

[Shaktimaan]

16. So,

you think this fight is over religion?

I'm guessing you haven't read too much about this conflict, huh?

[ShortnFiery]

22. Really? Then why not have a secular state named Israel-Palestine? n/t

[Shaktimaan]

28. Because the Palestinians rejected it.

But Israel IS secular, you know. And there are plenty of Palestinians living there with the same rtights as the Jewish Israeli have.

[ShortnFiery]

32. When you only let ONE religious sect return, then, in essence, you're not secular. n/t

[Shaktimaan]

36. They don't.

Is Japan not secular because they make special provisions for people of Japanese descent?

Additionally, you do not even need to be Jewish to qualify for right-of-return. Many immigrants are not Jewish. They use the persecution standard, if you are Jewish enough to be persecuted as such, then you can gain entry. Despite your actual religious beliefs.

[ShortnFiery]

40. With genuine respect, I honestly don't understand ...

That's why I wish that although we continue to give you (Israel) financial support, you please understand if we (the USA) get the hell out of the ENTIRE Middle East?

Really, IMO, all of what you have thoughtfully attempted to explain to me - makes absolutely no sense given my culture and background. :shrug:

Best Regards, SnF

[LeftishBrit]

49. Why not have a secular state called USA-Mexico?

The I/P conflict is predominantly based on nationalism, not religion as such.

[pelsar]

11. that wasnt the question...

was it?

i'm just wondering if you prefer to see the israeli kids terrorized and the IDF do nothing...as was the case a month or so.....


really simple question for one who does seem to have an opinion on the matter.

[barb162]

46. Then the kassams shouldn't be fired into Israel.

[Shaktimaan]

14. It seems that Hamas

had no trouble recruiting soldiers back when Israel declined to retaliate against the Qassams launched at them from Gaza. After several months of inaction by Israel, and several thousand rockets having been launched, it became clear that there was no benefit to be had from Israel sitting on their hands.

Striking back, however, drastically reduces the number of Qassams landing on Israel. Yes, this produces casualties, despite Israel's attempts at limiting collateral damage. Since Hamas' strategy is to use their civilians as shields, Israel is unable to strike back without incurring some civilian deaths. Were Israel indifferent to Palestinian casualties, though, Hamas would not utilize this strategy, using your civilians as shields only works if your enemy actually cares about their lives. And Israel has often aborted missions when it became obvious that the human cost would be too high. Contrast this with Hamas, whose goal is to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible in their attacks.

There is something extremely cynical in repeatedly attacking a much stronger foe, despite their refusal to retaliate, only to criticize them when they finally do defend themselves. Doubly cynical is when you use your civilians as cover, using your enemies humanity as a weapon against them, then holding them responsible when some of your own become casualties.

So, perhaps you have a better strategy for Israel in this kind of situation, Shortnfiery? If you were Israel, how would you defend yourself against such an enemy?

[ShortnFiery]

18. Honest Answer?

If I were Israel, I'd ask the USA to offer me the state of Alaska for a new homeland. :wow:

Don't laugh! I'm not Jewish nor Muslim, therefore, IF I were Israel I'd make like a sheep herder and get the flock out of the Middle East. :shrug:

[Shaktimaan]

21. I was kind of hoping for a practicle answer.

Something that Israel can actually do, like, in real life.

[ShortnFiery]

23. Well, IMO, if you wish to stop the slaughter before the end of time, make Israel-Palestine SECULAR.

[Shaktimaan]

31. OK, done! Both the PLO and Israel are now secular!

(But then, they always were.)

Now what?

[ShortnFiery]

33. Don't change the subject. You folks must love to hate because there's no SANITY here.

No viable alternative but incursions and occupations until you KILL EACH OTHER off completely.

It's a tragedy (Entire Middle Eastern Religious - Sectarian Violence) that I hope our leaders extract us (USA troops) from a.s.a.p. :scared: :nuke:

Aloha!

[Shaktimaan]

42. Love to hate whom?

I don't hate anyone. I've lost friends to terrorism. Right here in New York my friend was shot in the head by a Palestinian terrorist. But I don't hate Palestinians because of it. I'd prefer peace. But that's easier said than done.

A million people might work for years towards peace, but one guy can undo it all in an afternoon. Just because there is conflict and hate does not mean that anyone is lacking for sanity. What's crazy is that some people think that if everyone would just stop fighting then everything would be fine. If everything was fine then there wouldn't be any fighting to begin with. War is a symptom as much as it is a cause here...

and everyone is involved, whether they desire to be or not. It's a little late for the US to bring everyone home. About 4 years too late.

[ShortnFiery]

43. It's by far NOT too late for the USA to get out of the Middle East - it's NOT our hood. n/t

[barb162]

47. If Abbas and Israel make a deal, is that sane?

[LeftishBrit]

52. I hope it's confirmed that there were no casualties

I have no problem with the rocket launchers being attacked, so long as there isn't collateral damage.

Too many people just get killed or injured through happening to be in the wrong place.

[henank]

56. You put an intolerable demand upon Israel

You agree that Israel is entitled to strike at the rocket launchers, but only on condition that there is no collateral damage. Now you know as well as I do that Israel takes inordinate trouble to avoid collateral damage, and yet it still happens. Again, you know as well as I do why this happens. Because the cynical murderous terrorists place their rocket launchers amongst civilians, thereby pretty much guaranteeing that there will almost always be collateral damage. The fact that this collateral damage is minimal compared to other conflicts (look at Iraq and Afghanistan for clear examples) just shows how much effort Israel is putting into this.

Compare this to the terrorists whose missiles definitely are fired at Israel's civilian population, not at IDF targets.

And yet when Israel carries out targeted assassinations precisely in order to avoid civilian casualties, she gets condemned too.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I guess to a lot of commenters here Israel should preferably just sit back and take whatever is shot, fired and bombed.