Don't Be Deceived: a conversation with Nonie Darwish

[Meshuga]

The daughter of a high-ranking Egyptian officer assassinated by Israeli intelligence exposes the lies Muslim children are taught about Jews, reveals that even moderate Arabs tacitly support the radical Muslim line—and calls on all Arabs to support Israel.

Nonie Darwish is author of Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror (Sentinel, 2006) and the founder of Arabs for Israel, an organization that opposes radical Islam and calls on Arabs to make peace with Israel. She was interviewed by Reform Judaism editor Aron Hirt-Manheimer and managing editor Joy Weinberg.

CLICK HERE for the interview.

[GeorgeGist]

1. I wasn't before ...

and I'm still not.

[bemildred]

2. So her father was killed in a terrorist attack? nt

[Meshuga]

3. If you equate an assassination of a specific person

with deliberately killing random civilians then it is a terrorist attack. I would say the answer lies in the eyes of the beholder. The anti-Israel crowd will call it terrorist attack and the pro-Israel crowd will call it an assassination of a key person due to a war. So I guess you will have to take your pick.

[bemildred]

4. Assassination always kills specific people.

Most people consider the killing of al Hariri a terrorist attack, for example. How is this different?

[Meshuga]

5. He was assassinated

He was assassinated in a terror act that took not only his life but the life of 20 or so people, including bodyguards and bystanders.

[Shaktimaan]

14. I always considered terrorism to be defined by its intent.

By which I mean that the goal of terrorism, ultimately, is to instill fear in the populace, usually to influence policy or for some other kind of political reason. I also feel that the word "terrorism" indicates perpetrators other than a state or official governing body. Nations commit war crimes rather than terrorism.

For instance, when Saddam gassed the Kurds, that was a crime against humanity, but not really terrorism. However, when Saddam sponsored suicide bombing in Israel through Hamas, the act could be considered state-sponsoring of terrorism. And of course, Hamas itself, commits terrorism. Now that they have been elected though... ? They are still terrorists in my opinion, but any actions they take now are far more serious than mere terrorism, as they now speak for the Palestinian people. So when Hamas sent a few Qassams over before, it was just a terror incident. Now it could be considered an act of war.

I would not consider an assassination to be terrorism. Its goal is not to terrorize, but to influence events by killing a VIP. Totally different.

[bemildred]

16. All right, at least intelligent and no name calling.

1.) Intention is probably the most coherent guide, the problem is that not being able to read minds, it is a very unreliable one. This is easily observed by the fact that most everyone considers violence directed against them "terrorism" (it scares them, right?) and their own retaliatory or anticipatory violence "justified self-defense" (It doesn't scare them, right? In fact it gives them a temporary illusion of safety). About violence that has nothing to do with them, opinions tend to vary. Barring mind reading, one is left with what one can glean by the nature of the violence, which generally is not much, as people will lie and dissemble about their motives in these things.

2.) States commit terrorism all the time, it is the foundation of their power, the self-asserted monopoly on violence. Power is the expectation of being obeyed, that is how we know for instance that Mr Abbas just lost a lot of power, and violence and the threat of violence are one of the principle foundations of that power or expectation in all states. Some just use it with more enthusiasm than others, or are more or less even-handed in it's use, from need or predilection.

3.) Saddam gassing the Kurds seems very much an act of terrorism, its intent was to terrorize the Kurds into renewed obedience. It had nothing to do with war. I'm sure he viewed it as an "internal matter". But war is simply large scale violence in any case, one tends to think of it as being between political entities, but that is still a very mushy distinction, especially when you have such term as "the war on crime" and "the war one drugs" in common use. War lovers like to dress it up, but that is still all it really is, pillage and conquest and keeping ones provinces in subjugation.

4.) I don't really see why an assassination cannot be terrorism, as you say it all depends on the motive, are you getting rid of an opponent or intimidating his peers? It could be either or both.

[Tom Joad]

6. I thought Democratic Underground was supposed to use non-racist sources?

Unlike Little Green Footballs...

But we have people here saying "Palestinians are part of a death cult" "Ethnic Cleansing might be the answer" and a victim of tourette's syndrome repeat obscenity-laced nonsense against progressives (several thousand times!) and now this woman who is championed by Kahanist is highlighted.

Sweet. Not.

Now if you excuse me, i have to take a shower... and i gotta scrub down real good.

[Meshuga]

7. Reform Judaism Magazine...

...is far from a racist source. It is a magazine by a progressive Jewish movement (the Reform Movement is the largest Jewish group in the US) very much aligned with the Democratic party. Get educated!

Nonie Darwish opposing of radical Islam and calling on Arabs to make peace with Israel is not anything even close to racism or Kahanism.

The central claim of Kahanism is that all Arabs are, and will continue to be, enemies of Jews, and that a Jewish fundamentalist state, absent of a voting Arab population and that includes Israel, the West Bank and Gaza Strip and also possibly areas of modern-day Jordan and Lebanon, should be created. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahanism#Premises

Nonie Darwish does not preach any of that.

Your claims are beyond ridiculous.

[Tom Joad]

8. I did not mention that magazine. Nonie Darwish is championed by Kahanist. She is sponsored by

Frontpage Mag folks that also support the JDL terror group. So i was referring not to the "reform" magazine but to Nonie and her usual groupies.

[Meshuga]

9. Nonie Darwish doesn’t preach for the hating of any group

You are trying to make connections that don't exist and paint Nonie Darwish as a racist just because you disagree with her.

If the JDL Praises Marting Luther King Jr. for his remarks on zionism should we discredit Dr. King as well?

Give me a break!

[Tom Joad]

10. I don't think King would have gone on a speaking tour with a jdl groupie

Nonie did.

[Meshuga]

11. Still

You are trying hard with the guilty by association spiel. Please show me links of her promoting hate and racism and I might join you on your criticism of this person. Otherwise, I will stick to my conclusion that you are only trying to smear her because, what she says, represents a threat to your model of the world.

[AviBaruch]

13. When in doubt, attack the source

even when they're right.

Looks like your trying to do some deceiving.

[LeftishBrit]

15. I looked at the site, as I was rather concerned

I didn't find anything like that on the site. What I did find is the following:



Dear Reader: Our Jewish Imperative in Iraq
by Eric H. Yoffie
Last March, the Union for Reform Judaism’s Executive Committee overwhelmingly passed a resolution calling for a phased withdrawal of most American troops from Iraq. Of course, in our large and diverse Movement, there were some who disagreed with all or part of this resolution. Some argued that the war on terrorism would be adversely affected by a withdrawal; some insisted that the region would be destabilized and Israel’s position undermined; and some feared that our departure would lead to a massacre of Iraq’s Sunni minority. All of these points were considered in the Movement-wide debate that preceded the vote, but in the end, our leadership concluded that the war in Iraq had made America less safe, weakened the U.S. military, destabilized the Mideast, pushed Americans in the direction of isolationism, and diminished our nation’s capability to counter the Iranian threat.

While we welcome a debate on these issues, a certain number of our congregational leaders made a different point, urging the Union to focus on spirituality, not politics. It is more important, they said, that we Reform Jews concentrate on Jewish education, worship, and Outreach than on issues of public policy.

I understand this argument, but I cannot agree. Reform Judaism came into being as a protest against those who insisted on limiting Judaism to matters of ritual and study. A central principle of our Movement has always been to apply the insights of our tradition to the real problems of the society in which we live. For Reform Jews, worship and study must always lead to active engagement with the world.

Of course, it is not easy to apply ancient teachings to contemporary issues. That is why we must display humility when struggling with these questions and remain open to dialogue with all who interpret Torah differently.

Still, when confronted with issues of great moral urgency, the Reform Movement has always spoken out. This was true in the 1920s and ’30s when we championed workers’ rights; in the 1950s and ’60s when we supported civil rights legislation; and in the 1960s and ’70s when we opposed the war in Vietnam. In each case, we heard passionate arguments urging us to avoid “politics,” but we proceeded anyway—studying the relevant Jewish sources, developing our positions, and advocating for our point of view. We were not indifferent to the complexity of the issues, but we felt that our ancient faith had something important to say on the vital matters of the day, and that we could not responsibly remain silent.

What was true then is true today. And this conviction is what draws so many Jews, young and old, to our ranks.

Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie
President, Union for Reform Judaism



Good stuff, IMO!

[Tom Joad]

18. Again, the source i was referring to was Darwish herself, not the magazine

Please reread my post.

[Meshuga]

19. Rabbi Yoffie is a great guy

He usually writes and says good stuff. :-)

[Scurrilous]

12. More on Nonie Darwish:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x90934#91389

[LeftishBrit]

17. Well, I have looked a bit at interviews with her

I don't think she is a hater, but some of her views about Islam and the Moslem culture are a bit strong. In some ways, this is reminding me of the debates about Norman Finkelstein a few days ago. Of course, they are very different people, but there is something in common: both are rejecting aspects of their own culture and religion that they perceive as inimical to peace, to the point of being seen by some as self-hating bigots against their own culture.

I would have to read a lot more of her writings to make up my mind what I really think of her and her views: on an initial impression, she strikes me as a bit too sympathetic to the Israeli and American right. But I could change my mind on reading more.

Whatever reservations I might have about her views in general, I think the 'Arabs for Israel' site is great, and it really touched me. I wish there were more such organizations on both sides.

[Meshuga]

20. I don't agree with her politics...

or with everything she says but I find it stupid when I see the attempts by some to disqualify her by smearing her as a hater or a racist.

[mystikiel]

21. I think that some Arabs have learned that if you become an anti-Islamic zealot

you are almost guaranteed a book deal and lecture circuit.

Eg: Brigitte Gabriel
Wafa Sultan
Walid Shoebat
Nonie Darwish

When you think about it there are far more esoteric, fringe group Uncle-Tomming Arab voices in the American media than there are authentic Arab voices.