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Independent expert: IDF bullets didn't kill Mohammed al-Dura

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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 12:30 PM
Original message
Independent expert: IDF bullets didn't kill Mohammed al-Dura
A report presented to a French court last week by an independent ballistics expert maintains that the death of Mohammed al-Dura, a Palestinian child seen being shot in the Gaza Strip during the first days of the intifada in September 2000, could not have been the result of Israeli gunfire, corroborating claims that the shocking footage was doctored.

The ballistics expert, Jean-Claude Schlinger, presented his conclusions after reviewing the footage, which shows Dura and his father cowering by a wall after being caught in the crossfire between Palestinian gunmen and Israel Defense Forces soldiers at the Netzarim junction.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/959836.html
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. To see this tremendous hunger for truth makes one proud of DU.
;)
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. sure is
considering the case is has already been decided and is in appeal, with each passing year it has been 8 now, more "experts" will crawl out of the woodwork to tell us we can't believe our lie'n eye's"
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 09:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. It was decided with doctored evidence
Do you think that its ok to present only part of the evidence to manipulate it to look the way you want it because its Israel or should all of the evidence be available even if it exonerates Israel.
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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. No I think it will go though as many appeals as possible
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 09:32 PM by azurnoir
because then it is undecided or contested and if you claim the evidence was doctored prove it, oh wait thats the basis of the appeal.

It is all important for this case to be proven false for the pro-Israel crowd because the death of this child humanized the Palestinian cause as no other ever has.
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. So truth does not matter as long as Israel is demonized
The fact that the video was edited to fit an agenda does not bother you. The fact that the existence of the raw footage was concealed does not bother you. The fact that No autopsy, bullets, or ballistics examination occurred does not bother you. You dont think there should be an appeal even though the the appeal is based on the discovery of the raw footage which was hidden originally but was since discovered. Truth does not matter and all these things are OK with you as long as Israel is demonised. Is this what you are saying.



In February 2008 Jean-Claude Schlinger, a ballistics expert appointed by the French court, submitted a report indicating that IDF gunfire could not possibly have killed al-Dura. The report concluded that if gunfire had killed the boy, it must have come from the Palestinian position. Schlinger was the first official investigator to review the footage in this fashion not associated with the Israeli government. <2>








The controversy over al-Durrah's death centers on two main areas. First, neither Palestinian nor Israeli officials appear to have conducted a full investigation. No bullets appear to have been recovered; there was no autopsy; and no ballistics tests were conducted at the scene to determine the angle of the shots. Second, there is controversy regarding the way the France 2 footage was shot, edited, and reported.

No autopsy, bullets, or ballistics examination

It was reported that no autopsy was performed,<30> and no bullets appear to have been recovered, either at the hospital or at the scene. In an interview with Esther Shapiro for Three Bullets and a Child, a 2002 documentary for Germany's ARD channel, Talal Abu Rahma, the cameraman, said that bullets had been recovered; he said that Shapiro should ask a named Palestinian official, a general, about them. The general told Shapiro that he had no bullets, and that there had been no Palestinian investigation into the shooting because there was no doubt about who had shot the boy. "It was the Israeli side who committed this murder," he said.<29>

When told the general had no bullets, Abu Rahma said instead that France 2 had collected the bullets at the scene. When questioned about this by Shapiro, he replied: "We have some secrets for ourselves ... We cannot give anything ... everything."<29>

Shapiro also reported that the wall the al-Durrahs sheltered behind, in which bullet holes are visible in the footage, had been destroyed by the IDF before a ballistics examination could be conducted. <29><31> Shapiro's documentary concluded that the boy could not have been shot by the IDF, and that the shooting and his death were accidental.<29><31>

What the raw footage showed
The France 2 footage became controversial because Enderlin's report showed only 59 seconds out of 27 minutes of raw footage, and did not include the scene of the boy's death. Just over three minutes of footage was provided to other news organizations and to the Israeli army. France 2 provided the footage free of charge to the world's media, saying it did not want to profit from the incident.<4> None of the distributed footage shows the boy dying.


Independent journalists view the footage
Charles Enderlin, the France 2 bureau chief in Jerusalem, said that he had cut the death scene from his original report, and from the footage supplied to other media, because it showed the boy in his death throes ("agonie"), which he said in an interview with Télérama in October 2000 was "unbearable."<32>

In October 2004, in response to criticism that the footage may have been edited inappropriately, executives at France 2 allowed three senior French journalists to view all 27 minutes of the raw footage. The three were Daniel Leconte, a former France 2 correspondent; Dennis Jeambar, the editor-in-chief of L'Express; and Luc Rosenzweig, a former editor-in-chief of Le Monde, and a Metula News Agency (Mena) contributor.

Shortly after the viewing, Mena's editor-in-chief Stéphane Juffa reported that the footage did not show the boy's death.<6> Leconte and Jeambar wrote about the footage in an article co-authored a few weeks after viewing it, although it was first published five months later on January 25, 2005 by Le Figaro, allegedly only after it had been offered to, and rejected by, Le Monde.<4> In their article, Leconte and Jeambar write that there is no scene in the France 2 footage that shows the child had died. They wrote that they did not believe that the scene had been staged, but that "this famous 'agony' that Enderlin insisted was cut from the montage does not exist."<4>

They also wrote that the first 20 minutes or so of the film showed young Palestinians "playing at war" for the cameras, falling down as if wounded, then getting up and walking away. They told a radio interviewer that a France 2 official had said "You know it's always like that."<33> In an interview with Cybercast News Service, Leconte said that he found France 2's statement disturbing. "I think that if there is a part of this event that was staged, they have to say it, that there was a part that was staged, that it can happen often in that region for a thousand reasons," he said.<4>

Leconte did not conclude that the shooting of the boy and his father was faked; in his view "At the moment of the shooting, it's no longer acting, there's really shooting, there's no doubt about that."<33>

In February 2005, France 2 also showed the raw footage to the International Herald Tribune. The reporter, Doreen Carvajal, writes that the footage of the father and son lasts several minutes, but does not clearly show the child's death. She also writes there is a cut in the scene that France 2 executives say was caused by the cameraman's efforts to preserve a low battery.<4>

Leconte asks France 2 to correct its report
On February 15, 2005, Leconte said in an interview with the Cybercast News Service that al-Durrah had been shot from the Palestinian position. He said: "The only ones who could hit the child were the Palestinians from their position. If they had been Israeli bullets, they would be very strange bullets because they would have needed to go around the corner."<33> He dismissed an earlier claim by France 2 that the gunshots that struck al-Durrah were bullets that could have ricocheted off the ground, stating "It could happen once, but that there should be eight or nine of them, which go around a corner? They're just saying anything."<33>

Leconte also told the Cybercast News Service that the cameraman had retracted his testimony. France 2's communications director Christine Delavennat said that Abu Rahma had not retracted his testimony, but rather "denied making a statement — falsely attributed to him by a human rights group — to the effect that the Israeli army fired at the boy in cold blood."<33>

Leconte said that because the pictures had "devastating" consequences, which included the public lynching of two Israeli soldiers and a rise in antisemitism among French Muslims, France 2 or Enderlin should admit that their report may have been misleading. "Who will say it, I don't know, but it is important that Enderlin or France 2 should say, that on these pictures, they were wrong — they said things that were not reality," he said.<33>


Enderlin's response
Enderlin responded to Jeambar and Leconte's charges in a January 27, 2005 article in Le Figaro. He wrote that he had alleged the bullets were fired by the Israelis for a number of reasons: first, he trusted the cameraman who, he said, had worked for France 2 for 17 years. It was the cameraman, he said, who made the initial claim during the broadcast, and later had it confirmed by other journalists and sources. The initial Israeli statements also played a role, he said.<14>

Enderlin said "the image corresponded to the reality of the situation, not only in Gaza but also in the West Bank," where, he wrote, in the first month of the Intifada, the IDF had already shot around one million bullets, and killed 118 Palestinians, including 33 children, compared to the 11 Israelis killed. Enderlin attributed these figures to Ben Kaspit of Maariv.<14>

Leconte responded: "I find this, from a journalistic point of view, hallucinating. That a journalist like him can be driven to say such things is very revealing of the state of the press in France today."<33>

Enderlin also wrote that a journalist does not have to take note of "possibly dishonest" later uses by "extremist groups," and accused Jeambar and Leconte of promoting "censorship".<14>

Allegations that the incident was staged

Richard Landes
Richard Landes,<34> a Boston University professor specializing in medieval cultures, and founder and director of the Center for Millennial Studies,<35> studied full footage from other Western news outlets shot on the day of the shooting, including the pictures of the boy, and concluded that the shooting had probably been faked.<36>

He called the footage an example of "Pallywood" cinema, writing: "I came to the realization that Palestinian cameramen, especially when there are no Westerners around, engage in the systematic staging of action scenes."<4> Landes went on to found the website Second Draft, dedicated to gathering evidence on the al-Durrah case and other controversies in journalism.<37>


Shahaf/Duriel investigation
Nahum Shahaf, a physicist, and Yosef Duriel, an engineer, were informally commissioned by IDF Southern Commander Major General Yom Tov Samia to begin a second investigation of the case. Shortly after the shooting, the IDF acknowledged that there was "a high probability" that IDF gunfire had killed al-Durrah. Ha'aretz writes that Deputy Chief of Staff Moshe Ya'alon expressed his sorrow over the tragedy, assuming that "the damage to Israel's reputation was irreversible, and knowing that Israel faced the reality of more children dying ..."<38> Senior officers in the Southern Command were allegedly bitter about what they saw as this hasty capitulation, which is why Shahaf and Duriel's offer to help investigate was accepted. The two were already familiar with one another after being involved in attempts to develop alternative theories about the assassination of Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin in 1995.<38>

On October 23, 2000, Shahaf and Duriel arranged a re-enactment of the shooting on an IDF shooting range, in front of a CBS 60 Minutes camera crew. Duriel told 60 Minutes that he believed al-Durrah was killed by Palestinian gunmen collaborating with the France 2 camera crew and the boy's father, with the intent of fabricating an anti-Israel propaganda symbol.<38> Samia immediately removed Duriel from the investigation, but Duriel continued to insist that his version was accurate and that the IDF were refusing to publicize it because the results were "explosive".<38>

The results of the investigation were released on November 27, 2000. Samia stated: "A comprehensive investigation conducted in the last weeks casts serious doubt that the boy was hit by Israeli fire. It is quite plausible that the boy was hit by Palestinian bullets in the course of the exchange of fire that took place in the area." IDF Chief of Staff Shaul Mofaz later insisted that this investigation was a private enterprise of Samia's.<39> Yossi Almog, a retired senior police officer who specializes in evidence-gathering, told Ha'aretz: "I don't believe the IDF would release a conclusion revising a previous declaration without first conducting a thorough examination, using the best professionals in the security establishment. I wouldn't rely on an approach made by some anonymous person. I might welcome that person's initiative, but I certainly wouldn't accept his conclusions without conducting a systematic, orderly examination, under the best possible conditions. Anything less than that isn't serious."<38>

James Fallows, in a June 2003 article in The Atlantic Monthly titled Who Shot Mohammed al-Dura? characterized Shahaf's evidence for his conclusion as follows:

The reasons to doubt that the al-Duras, the cameramen, and hundreds of onlookers were part of a coordinated fraud are obvious. Shahaf's evidence for this conclusion, based on his videos, is essentially an accumulation of oddities and unanswered questions about the chaotic events of the day. Why is there no footage of the boy after he was shot? Why does he appear to move in his father's lap, and to clasp a hand over his eyes after he is supposedly dead? Why is one Palestinian policeman wearing a Secret Service-style earpiece in one ear? Why is another Palestinian man shown waving his arms and yelling at others, as if 'directing' a dramatic scene? Why does the funeral appear — based on the length of shadows — to have occurred before the apparent time of the shooting? Why is there no blood on the father's shirt just after they are shot? Why did a voice that seems to be that of the France 2 cameraman yell, in Arabic, 'The boy is dead' before he had been hit? Why do ambulances appear instantly for seemingly everyone else and not for al-Dura?"

– James Fallows, The Atlantic Monthly.<22>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah

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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. cont
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 10:30 PM by Dick Dastardly
France 2 legal action
To defend itself against the charges that its reporting of the incident had not been accurate, France 2 filed a series of defamation suits against some of its critics in October 2004.<40>


Philippe Karsenty
The first of the France 2 lawsuits was against Philippe Karsenty, who was charged with defaming Charles Enderlin's and France 2's honor and reputation on his website, Media-Ratings, by suggesting that their original broadcast was fraudulent and calling for the dismissal of Chabot and Enderlin.<40>

The public prosecutor, Sandrine Alimi-Uzan, recommended that the court rule in Karsenty's favor, arguing that he had acted in good faith and had offered convincing evidence that his allegations might be true.<41> Courts are not obliged to follow the recommendations of the public prosecutor, but usually they do. In this case, the judges argued that Karsenty's allegations could not be regarded as credible because "no Israeli authority ... have ever accorded the slightest credit" to them.<20> According to The Jerusalem Post, Israeli officials have explained their silence by saying that it was a "losing proposition" to reopen the al-Durrah case, because they would be "accused of blaming the victim."<20>

On October 19, 2006, the court ruled that Karsenty had libeled France 2 and Enderlin.<42> He was fined €1,000; €3,000 in legal fees; and a symbolic €1 in damages.<19> His appeal against the judgment opened on September 12, 2007.<41> On September 21 a French appeals court ordered the release of the full unedited video tape.<43>

On November 8, 2007 Enderlin confirmed that France 2 would show 18 (out of 27) minutes of unedited footage filmed that day to the French court. <1>. At the November 14th hearing, only 18 minutes out of the original 27 minutse of tape were shown and further questions were raised as to the credibility of Enderlin's and France 2's insistence that their version of the story is true, since the film showed the boy lifting his hand and peering through his fingers moments after Enderlin had narrated his death.<44><45><46><47><48><49>


Karsenty appeal and independent expert analysis
In February 2008 Jean-Claude Schlinger, a ballistics expert appointed by the French court, submitted a report indicating that IDF gunfire could not possibly have killed al-Dura. The report concluded that if gunfire had killed the boy, it must have come from the Palestinian position. Schlinger was the first official investigator to review the footage in this fashion not associated with the Israeli government. <2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah


German TV: Mohammed a-Dura likely killed by Palestinian gunfire

http://www.israelinsider.com/channels/diplomacy/articles/dip_0182.htm

The mysteries and passions of an iconic video frame
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/02/07/video07_ed3_.php

The Al-Dura case : a dramatic conclusion (info # 010311/4EV)
http://www.menapress.com/article.php?sid=962


Birth of an Icon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOwZ8wgV7I4
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. BTW
"It is all important for this case to be proven false for the pro-Israel crowd because the death of this child humanized the Palestinian cause as no other ever has."


You do know that the reporter and TV station originally started the suit, not anyone from the pro Israel crowd. They opened up a can of worms because when it was found out they had more video they did not disclose at the first court it made an appeal almost certain as well as the public discosure of the video



The first of the France 2 lawsuits was against Philippe Karsenty, who was charged with defaming Charles Enderlin's and France 2's honor and reputation on his website, Media-Ratings, by suggesting that their original broadcast was fraudulent and calling for the dismissal of Chabot and Enderlin.<40>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah#Philippe_Karsenty
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
5. you can get "Independent experts" to say that a alien landed was autopsied in New Mexico
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 09:49 PM by Tom Joad
this historical revisionist shit belongs with the David Irving files in the recycle bin.
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Dick Dastardly Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. This was a court ordered
In February 2008 Jean-Claude Schlinger, a ballistics expert appointed by the French court, submitted a report indicating that IDF gunfire could not possibly have killed al-Dura. The report concluded that if gunfire had killed the boy, it must have come from the Palestinian position. Schlinger was the first official investigator to review the footage in this fashion not associated with the Israeli government. <2>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Durrah#_note-13
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. Al Mezan Center for Human Rights calls for impartial investigation:
Edited on Mon Mar-03-08 12:55 AM by Douglas Carpenter
"Al Mezan Calls for an Impartial Investigation into the death of a child in 2000"

link: http://www.imemc.org/article/50758

"This is a statement issued on October 4, 2007 by the Al Mezan Center For Human Rights, in Gaza, commenting on a statement by the Israeli Government Press Office, which claimed that video which clearly showed the fatal shooting of the child, Mohammad Ad Dorra, by Israeli forces was staged by a Palestinian cameraman.

The Israeli Government Press Office (GPO) claimed yesterday that the video of the murder of the Muhammad Jamal Ad-Dura on 30 September 2000 was staged by a cameraman in Gaza. The scene of the killing of the then 11-year-old boy was one of the most moving scenes ever broadcast during the Al Aqsa Intifada; which had started three days before the incident.

The video shows Ad-Dura and his father trying to take cover behind a concrete block while the father trying to protect his son as the Israeli Forces opened fire directly at them.

The child was killed and the father was moderately injured in this incident. The video shows the child and the father in a desperate situation while neither of them posed any danger on the army.

The video was broadcast by France 2 TV, and provoked strong condemnation by official and popular levels worldwide at the time.

Based on the GPO's allegations, Israel stripped the credentials of the two journalists who took the footage. The decision was approved, and therefore accepted, by Israel's Prime Minister Office Legal Advisor. The GPO claims that the Israeli military does not bear responsibility for killing the child.

Nevertheless, according to the information and evidences collected by Al Mezan from the field rebut the GPO's allegations. Al Mezan had availed its evidences to an international fact-finding-mission in 2000.

The mission encompassed the UN independent expert Professor John Dugard and fifteen experts. Al Mezan invited eyewitnesses and other presented other evidences to the mission, which investigated the perpetration of multiple crimes by THE ARMY in this incident. The army also targeted an ambulance that tried to help Ad-Dura and his father and killed its driver; 48-year-old Fayiz Saleem Al-Bilbissy.

Al Mezan noted that the murder of Ad-Dura occurred on the third day of the Intifada; a time that saw the highest rate of killing of Palestinian children by the army. According to the documented information, children were killed as they threw stones at Israeli soldiers who were well-protected inside barracks at the entrance of the road to the former settlement of Netsarim, south of Gaza city. This period was characterized by extensive passive resistance in the form of demonstrations and throwing stones.

Al Mezan views these claims and the measures taken by the GPO against the France 2 journalists as an attempt to repair Israel's image, even after the army commit crimes against civilians, and to convey a message of threat to media and deter its revealing of the army;s illegal conducts.

The Center denounces the Israeli GPO's claims and its decision, which is contrary to Israel's legal obligations vis-à-vis the responsibility for the conduct of its own forces in the OPT. Israel is under the obligation to investigate the conducts which represent violations of the civilians human rights, to suppress such conducts and punish them.

Al Mezan asserts that Israel has systematically employed a policy of covering and immunity as far as the criminal conduct of its forces in OPT is involved. The Center has documented hundreds of cases involving likelihood of criminal conducts. The perpetrators have been protected and the crimes remain unpunished either in Israel or abroad. This policy is in itself a flagrant violation of International Humanitarian Law (IHL) and International Penal Law.

Therefore, Al Mezan calls for a serious, impartial international investigation in the murder of Ad-Dura and for bringing those who prove to be involved in it to justice. The Center also calls for enforcing the mechanisms of accountability as established by the international law against those who commit breaches the IHL and violations of human rights. Those mechanisms represent a crucial means of protecting human rights in our world."

link:

http://www.imemc.org/article/50758
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. October 2007
Predating the court findings.

At this point, what remains of the evidence has been examined by (for the French legal system) an independent expert. People will either agree or disagree.

L-
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