U.S. Congress recognizes Jewish refugees from Arab countries for first time

[oberliner]

The U.S. House of Representatives on Tuesday approved an unprecedented resolution recognizing Jewish refugees from Arab countries who were forced to flee their homes in the aftermath of the creation of the state of Israel.

According to the language of the resolution, U.S. officials involved in Middle East peace negotiations which also reference the Palestinian refugee question are to "also include a similarly explicit reference to the resolution of the issue of Jewish refugees from Arab countries."

"The world needs to understand that it is not just the Arabs and it's not just the Palestinians in the Middle East, but also Jewish people who themselves were dispossessed of their possessions and their homes, and were victims of terrorist acts," one of the bill's co-sponsors, Rep. Joseph Crowley (D-N.Y.) said.

"Jewish refugees outnumbered Palestinian refugees, and their forced exile from Arab lands must not be omitted from public discussion on the peace process," said Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY).

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/970998.html

[Vegasaurus]

1. It's about time

there were two groups of indigenous people who lost their homes.

To concentrate and focus on only one is absurd.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

2. Why am I only now beginning to hear about this phenomenon nt?

[msmcghee]

3. Because the Jewish refugees haven't been claiming . .

. . victimhood for 60 years?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

14. Why start now? Oh that's right, the talking points were just developed! nt

[azurnoir]

4. It became a "talking point"

when Annapolis was announced, sort of a but look what they did to us, or we were expelled from our homes and lookie at how well we've done, whats wrong with them and why should we give them anything they've given us nothing and on and on; in short posturing victim hood 60 years after the fact.

[Vegasaurus]

5. Well, there is something about the perpetual victimhood

and how an equal number of people who were also forced out of their homes (and not compensated) have done just fine.

There should be recognition and reparations to the Jews forced from Arab countries, just as the Palestinians forced from their homes.

[azurnoir]

8. One difference

the Jews expelled from Arab countries had a place to go that would welcome them and in fact needed their presence and air lifts to help them in some cases.
Which is why until now virtual silence.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

13. You're not seriously going to point the finger at palestinians for being perpetual victims are you?

Isn't that the main reason Israel "deserves" a state of its own?

[msmcghee]

6. Here's a question for you.

Why is it that the creation of several hundred thousand Palestinian refugees, most of whom ended up a short distance from their original homes and among people who spoke the same language and had the same religion, as the result of a war they started, is a "Nabqa" that has been used to justify the attacking and killing of Jewish civilians in Israel for over six decades . . .

. . and bringing to attention the existence of a similar number of Jewish refugees created around the same time and mentioned sixty years later as part of a reconciliation effort - is just a "talking point".

[azurnoir]

7. The timing is the key

just coincidence?

[pelsar]

10. actually i think it is just a talking point..

in fact i think its counterproductive to go back 60 years and "cry" about those jews who left/kicked out......they've made new lives, productive lives overcame prejudices within a few generations and in general have done well......going backwards will serve them no good.(not to mention the fighting over any money, and the govts cut will not help the citizens)

same goes for the Palestenians.....they've been making a profession out of being victims....time to get over it and make something good out of gaza. Its not the first time they've had a chance to develop a society, but it is the first time on a land they can call their own.....

victimhood is not a productive way to live nor to pass down to ones kids....something about crying over spilled milk....

[msmcghee]

11. Good point. I was just trying to get a handle . .

. . on what seemed to be a vast difference in how each side's "injustices" were being perceived and discussed here. But I agree with your take on it, overall.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

23. If the US gave the kinds of massive aid to Palestine that they gave to Israel

along with the political support, the Palestinians may not have been victims for 60 years. Israel no doubt had good leadership in its early days (what a pity it does have that today). But Israel hardly did it on its own.

Unfortunately, with Israel's steel toed boots on its neck, that's not as easy as you make it sound.

Your langauge is reminiscent of right wing talk show radio hosts in this country. It's really pretty heinous for a country to practice every sort of human rights abuse for 40 years, and then have the fucking gall to decry its victims for being victims.

It's no matter, because they are still standing and they will never cooperate in their own destruction.

[Vegasaurus]

24. And nor will Israelis cooperate in their own destruction

which is why they will not go back to '67 lines completely (land swaps, yes) or have a bi-national state.

They just aren't that suicidal.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

25. Pelsar's point is far more sinister.

I reject the notion that Arabs and Palestinians don't have what it takes to make a go of it -- not with all the barriers continuously thrown in front of them.

To victimize them, and then mock them for being victims is pretty heinous.

[pelsar]

27. The Palestinians do have what it takes...

they're just not using their limited resources in the right way....somewhere within their own society for their own reasons they have decided not to develop their own society in a more beneficial way..


Today I can say explicitly: We failed entirely in the intifada. We haven't seen any benefit or positive result from it. We achieved nothing. It's a crushing failure. We failed at the political level - we didn't succeed in translating the military actions into political achievements

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/971604.html

_____

i think a large part of the problem is the attitude/beliefs that you written here: resistance for resistance sake and not a goal oriented movement.


not with all the barriers continuously thrown in front of them......

there are always barriers, thats how life is, to use "barriers" as the reason for something not getting done is no more than an excuse...a bad excuse at that.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

28. Pelsar, cut the crap

40 years of murderous military occupation is not equivalent to life's daily barriers.

If you can't admit that, then we cannot have a dialog.

[pelsar]

33. actions have consequences.....

thats how life works....those 40 years?...the Palestenains have multiple choices throughout that period..and before that as well. In case you didnt notice, wrong resistance has made their lives more and more miserable...thats because wrong/dumb actions have consequences.....the type of consequences that makes things worse, that is why they are "wrong and dumb".

i'm still having a hard time getting over that sentence/belief of yours "even the wrong resistance is permissible" (or something like that). You like blaming israel and the US for the Palestinians failures....i think that view is very very narrow, you can add the arab countries..but most of all you can blame the Palestinians themselves:

Former Al-Aqsa commander Zakariya Zubeid
Today I can say explicitly: We failed entirely in the intifada. We haven't seen any benefit or positive result from it. We achieved nothing. It's a crushing failure...... "Why? Because our politicians are whores. Our leadership is garbage. Look at Ruhi Fatouh, who was president of the PA for 60 days, as Yasser Arafat's replacement. He smuggled mobile phones. Do you understand? We have been defeated. The political splits and schisms have destroyed us not only politically - they have destroyed our national identity.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/971604.html

and hes not the only one....I've seen Hamasnikim with similar words, PA guys as well.....its a start, recognizing what doesnt work

[azurnoir]

35. More from the article

"They lied to us, Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The PA promised us that after we spent three months in PA facilities and if we didn't get involved in actions, we would receive a pardon. The three months ended and nothing happened. We still need to sleep at the headquarters of the security organizations. They promised us jobs and they haven't materialized either. Some of us are getting a salary of NIS 1,050 a month. What can you do with that? Buy Bamba for your children? They lied to everyone, they made a distinction between those who were really in the Al-Aqsa Brigades, whom they screwed, and groups that called themselves by that name, but in fact were working on behalf of the PA."

The heads of the Tanzim, the senior Fatah people who were supposed to have become the organization's leaders of the future, are also making little effort to conceal their despair. They watch as their movement marches toward annihilation: without real reforms, without substantive change, but with endless talk about elections in Fatah and a war on corruption. Even the heads of some of the security organizations are critical of the stuttering actions of the PA against Hamas and the Islamic Jihad in the West Bank. And while Hamas indirectly conducts indirect negotiations with Israel on a cease-fire, the PA, as Zubeidi says, has "zero achievements" to show: limping negotiations, Israeli unwillingness to help, corruption and the absence of reforms. In the view of some Tanzim people, the PA is on a sure path to disintegration. Not in a swift and sharp way, but rather in a prolonged process, at the end of which it will disappear from the West Bank and will be replaced by the Israeli occupation and Hamas. Nearly the only scenario that could change the face of things is, of course, a political agreement or a framework agreement between the PA and Israel. But who can trust the Israelis?

Your spin was just a tad disingenuous

[pelsar]

37. Zubeidi is somewhat of a tv star in israel

hes been interviewed over the years on many many occasions and has said quite a few things.....the article itself contains several different subjects as well....i was and am interested when the Palestinians take responsibility for their actions, irreguardless of what israel does or doesn't do.

thats usually a tough one to accept for those who make the zillon of excuses for the Palestinians or try their best to fault israel with everything.....but then they actually have to live with the consequences of their actions...i guess it makes things look different from that point of view.

[azurnoir]

39. More spin?

Zubeidi calls the Israelis "untrustable" and "liars".

[pelsar]

41. so?

and hes said so on israeli tv several times.....what does that have to do with his take on the PA/hamas/ and the failed intifada and failed Palestinians leadership?

(oh and he no longer on Israels wanted list, as he publicly "quit" the al aska brigades.)

[azurnoir]

43. Why is it that Israel will only deal with

Palestinian "whores" as he calls Fatah?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

36. What actions are responsible for the 1900 new homes going up in the WB?

Hamasnikim? Excuse me while I gag.

Pelsar has clearly drunk the kool aidnikim.

[pelsar]

38. israel is..

one doesnt have to make excuses/blame the other side for the various actions of the societies leaders/govt.....you should try it....

[azurnoir]

42. So you admit that Olmert openly lied

at Annapolis, when there was an agreement to cease new building in the OPT? What a surprise:sarcasm:

[Vegasaurus]

32. The Palestinians have had more help and financial support

than any refugee group in history.

For the first 20 years, there was no occupation, and there was no reason the Palestinians couldn't have pulled themselves together and declared themselves a state. Instead , they chose perpetual war, and have suffered because of their bad choices.

In the 40 years since there has been an occupation, their lives have become increasingly miserable, as more and more violent resistance has brought them more and more restrictions.

You have to wonder if the Palestinians can make a go of it, because they have had lots of opportunities, and have squandered each and every one.

If they couldn't make a go of it with the aid and support they have gotten, that is their problem. They didn't always have Israel's "boot", and couldn't make it then either.

These are hard things to face.

[msmcghee]

26. Since 1993, Palestinians have received . .

. . more than $1.7 billion in U.S. economic assistance via USAID projects alone - more than from any other donor country.

What's to show for it?

http://www.usaid.gov/wbg/

[Dick Dastardly]

40. Israel did not recieve large amounts of assistance until 1974

Israel has received more direct aid from the United States since World War II than any other country, but the amounts for the first half of this period were relatively small. Between 1949 and 1973, the U.S. provided Israel with an average of about $122 million a year, a total of $3.1 billion (and actually more than $1 billion of that was loans for military equipment in 1971-73) . Prior to 1971, Israel received a total of only $277 million in military aid, all in the form of loans as credit sales. The bulk of the economic aid was also lent to Israel. By comparison, the Arab states received nearly three times as much aid before 1971, $4.4 billion, or $170 million per year. Moreover, unlike Israel, which receives nearly all its aid from the United States, Arab nations have gotten assistance from Asia, Eastern Europe, the Soviet Union and the European Community.

Israel did not begin to receive large amounts of assistance until 1974, following the 1973 war, and the sums increased dramatically after the Camp David agreements. Altogether, since 1949, Israel has received more than $90 billion in assistance. Though the totals are impressive, the value of assistance to Israel has been eroded by inflation.

U.S. economic grants to Israel ended in 1959. U.S. aid to Israel from then until 1985 consisted largely of loans, which Israel repaid, and surplus commodities, which Israel bought. Israel began buying arms from the United States in 1962, but did not receive any grant military assistance until after the 1973 Yom Kippur War. As a result, Israel had to go deeply into debt to finance its economic development and arms procurement. The decision to convert military aid to grants that year was based on the prevailing view in Congress that without a strong Israel, war in the Middle East was more likely, and that the U.S. would face higher direct expenditures in such an eventuality.

more
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf21.html#h


In any case the aid they have gotten is a pittance compared to what the US has spent supporting S Korea, Japan and Europe

[azurnoir]

29. The Palestinians

"same goes for the Palestenians.....they've been making a profession out of being victims....time to get over it and make something good out of gaza. Its not the first time they've had a chance to develop a society, but it is the first time on a land they can call their"

So you are claiming that the Palestinians have not suffered any land acquisition by Israel for 60 years?

Oh thats right, Israel gave them Gaza. Do not look anywhere else right?

What about the West Bank? No land taken there in 60 years right?

[oberliner]

31. For 20 of those 60 years, the West Bank was occupied by Jordan

There was no Palestinian state established in the West Bank during that time.

I wish more people would take a look at the Geneva Accords. They provide a solid framework for the creation of an independent Palestinian state that I think would be amenable to all parties involved.

We need to start thinking about ways to move forward and try to support and encourage those who are promoting a peaceful resolution to this conflict. One that would lead to two states living side by side at peace with one another.

[LeftishBrit]

34. I agree

There is little point IMO in constantly rehashing who is to blame for what aspect of the problems, except when it leads to a solution, which it generally doesn't. The main issue is how to move forward to a decent two-state solution. Admittedly, as the old farmer said to the man who asked for directions, "If I were you, I wouldn't start from here"; but unfortunately that's what people will need to do. The Geneva Accords could certainly provide a useful basis for a beginning.

[breakaleg]

30. And Israel has no part in this? It's hard to take your criticisms seriously when they are so

self serving.

[breakaleg]

9. Hitching a ride on the magic carpet

"Any analogy between Palestinian refugees and Jewish immigrants from Arab lands is folly in historical and political terms"


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=329736

[ProgressiveMuslim]

12. Folly indeed.... it's shameless. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

15. No, what is shameless...

...is that the Palestinian "refugees" were never treated as "immigrants," but rather as pawns. They were then, and they are now. Of the Arab nations, only Jordan stepped up to the plate.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

16. No, what's shameless is trying to minimize their tragedy by claiming reciprocity.

There was indeed a heinous crime committed -- by the state of Israel.

[Vegasaurus]

17. But there is reciprocity

Palestinians lost their homes. So did Jews, who were expelled (or persecuted so badly they had no choice but to leave).

They were never compensated for their losses, in land or property.

The fact that they have gone on to make productive lives for themselves, while the Palestinians live on aid in squalid refugee camps doesn't make the fact that 850,000 Jews lost their homes and livelihoods any less valid.

But the eternal victimhood of the Palestinians will go on into the next millenium, at the rate they're going.

[breakaleg]

18. Israeli Jews pushed Palestinians out of theirs. Palestinians did NOT push Jews out of theirs. See

the difference?

[Vegasaurus]

19. No? If you were a Jew who had lost your home in an Arab land

(one of the 850,000), you would surely disagree.

[breakaleg]

22. So, you're saying Palestinians pushed Jews out of say Saudi Arabia?

[Behind the Aegis]

20. And it is shameless to minimize the tragedy suffered by the Jews...

...because it doesn't fit your narrative! Don't forget the heinous crimes committed by the Arabs against the Jews and the Palestinians, and they are still committing those crimes by using them as pawns.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

21. Then let's have *everyone* go back to where they came from! nt