Probe sought of whether Israel targeted media crew

[ProgressiveMuslim]

NEW YORK, April 18 (Reuters) - A leading human rights group called on Friday for an independent investigation into the death of a Reuters cameraman and other civilians in Gaza this week, saying Israeli forces may have targeted the media.

Reuters cameraman Fadel Shana, a 23-year-old Palestinian, was killed in the Gaza Strip on Wednesday while covering events in the enclave for the international news agency. He had been filming an Israeli tank dug in about 1,000 yards (1 km) away.

"Human Rights Watch's investigations at the site found evidence suggesting that an Israeli tank crew fired recklessly or deliberately at the journalist's team," the New York-based group Human Rights Watch said in a statement.

Local doctors said on Thursday that tiny darts sprayed from a controversial missile used by Israel killed Shana, although Israeli forces would not say whether one of their tanks fired the fatal shot.

The last few seconds of video shot on Shana's tripod-mounted camera show the tank firing, then a midair explosion consistent with the burst of a missile.

Reuters previously reported that Shana's soundman, Wafa Abu Mizyed, was wounded in the arm and at least two teenage bystanders were also killed in the incident.

Human Rights Watch quoted the Palestinian Center for Human Rights as saying three bystanders were killed as they watched Shana filming. It identified them as Ahmed 'Aaref Farajallah, 14, Ghassan Khaled Abu 'Otaiwi, 17, and Khalil Isma'il Dughmosh, 22.

more, more, more...
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN18361642

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. MURDER: just another day under Israel's "not so bad" occupation... nt

[idontwantaname]

2. some text i came across...

"Sounds like this was a flechette shell. They have been illegally used by Israel in a civilian areas of the Gaza Strip since 2000. They were also widely used in Lebanon, and that use was numerous times protested by the UN observers there. Such shells banned by the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

The flechette tank shell explodes in the air and fires thousands of 4 inch darts onto a wide area.

Remember this next time Israelis complain that Palestinians place metal fragments in their bombs."

[msmcghee]

3. There is disagreement over your claims.

Wiki: The use of artillery flechette rounds in populated areas has recently been criticized due to their use by the Israel Defense Forces in the Gaza Strip.<1> These criticisms focus on the wide area of effect of artillery flechette rounds, and their use in areas with large civilian populations. Detractors argue that the such use of the rounds conflicts with the Fourth Geneva Convention provisions protecting non-combatants.<2><3>

10 civilians have been killed in the Gaza Strip by flechette shells since the start of the Palestinian intifada, in September 2000. The army has used the weapons very selectively in its fight against terrorism. Israeli media reports have said the army uses the shells mainly against mortar crews firing rounds at Israeli civilian settlements. <4>

Official Israeli sources justify the use of flechette shells. The IDF Spokesperson claims that the use of this weapon is permitted under international law and that "the use of various types of weapons is done according to the judgement of commanders in the field, and based on the threat posed to the security forces." Haim Israeli, Assistant to the Defense Minister, wrote to B'Tselem that "the use of flechette shells in combat is not forbidden. In regards to when this weapon is used, the IDF is aware of the need to balance between military need on one hand, and humanitarian concerns and minimization of damage to the civilian population on the other. The policy regarding the use of various types of weapons is determined based on these considerations." <5>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flechette

********************************

Since the militants love to fire rockets and mortars from civilian areas - ten dead Palestinians since September 2000 sounds like the IDF are being pretty careful with them to me. That's like 1.3 per year.

[idontwantaname]

4. not sure what the disagreement is

so how many INNOCENT aka non-combatants are wounded by this sort of shell? who pays for their bills and mental trauma of the state of israels negligence?

and the significance of the assistant to the defense minister writing a letter to btselem only means they know they are breaking international law, and are making excuses for it (sort of how the bush admin makes excuses for the illegal things they do)

[msmcghee]

5. None of things you mentioned . .

. . bear on the question of the illegality of these munitions . . a claim that you made. If you think they are illegal, Israel apparently feels their use of them in these circumstances is not. Legality is determined by courts . . not anonymous persons making claims on the Internet.

Bt'salem, HRW or PCHR and other NGO's are free to bring charges in some war crimes tribunal of they think they are correct on this. Until they or someone else does so and their claims prevail in court then saying they are illegal - or their use in this situation was illegal - is just your opinion.

[idontwantaname]

7. do you think they should be used in a civilian populated area?

from btselem:

snip>
The great danger posed by flechettes to civilians not involved in the hostilities led the OC Central Command to forbid the use of flechettes in the West Bank. Given that most of the incidents of gunfire in the Gaza Strip occur in or near populated areas, the use of flechette shells should also be prohibited in Gaza, particularly given the variety and sophistication of the weapons available to the IDF. The failure of the OC Southern Command to prohibit this weapon is particularly troubling.
<snip>


http://www.btselem.org/english/firearms/flechette.asp

[msmcghee]

9. I am neither a military expert nor am I Israeli.

It is the Israel and the IDF who must answer that question. From my perspective it appears that Israel is carefully weighing the pro's and con's and have only authorized its use under certain conditions. The small number of civilian deaths that have occurred seems to verify that. I suspect that the different ROE on the WB and Gaza reflect the presence of the more sophisticated anti-tank weapons that Hamas has bragged about as well as the apparent use of those weapons by militants recently in Gaza.

On edit: I would add that the video clips from the incident show that this occurred in a relatively low population density farming area. This did not happen in an area heavily or even moderately populated by civilians.

[idontwantaname]

10. checks and balances

in the end nobody can make the state of israel or its army do what it doesnt want to do (settlers may be the exception) but the system of checks and balances for things like this have been whittled away to nothing.

imagine if americans were like, "oh, guantanamo bay? well, im sure the US army is carefully weighing the pros and cons and have only authorized its use under certain conditions. plus, theres only been a small amount of civilian deaths that have occurred"

perhaps you see what im saying, perhaps not. shameful actions regardless.

[msmcghee]

11. I fail to see much in your argument.

How can you compare the actions of an IDF tank crew in Gaza defending itself from what it probably thinks is an anti-tank guided missile crew preparing to take it out at 2 km - with US policy toward prisoners taken in our anti-terrorist war in Afghanistan and Iraq? I have no expectations of changing your mind on this and I'm not trying to do that. Just pointing out some flaws in your reasoning about the media crew incident which is the topic of the OP under discussion.

Feel free to try to convince me if you really want to - but you'll need something better than cries of "Guantanamo" to do it.

[idontwantaname]

16. anti-terrorist war in Afghanistan and Iraq

thats a laughable pro-war label to put on it.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msmcghee]

6. Here is more info . .

http://www.janes.com/defence/land_forces/news/jdw/jdw010522_2_n.shtml

22 May 2001
Israel's military debates use of flechette round

STEVE RODAN JDW Correspondent
Tel Aviv

The Israel Defence Force (IDF) is using tank-fired flechette anti-personnel rounds in its conflict with Palestinian militants in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Military sources told Jane's Defence Weekly that the IDF is divided about the employment of the round, with some officers arguing that the shell is effective against certain targets while others warn of an international backlash.

The IDF is using a modified version of the M494 105mm APERS-T round provided by the USA in the 1970s. According to a US Army manual, the round is "designed for close-in assault against massed infantry assaults and for offensive fire against exposed enemy personnel".

In IDF service the M494 is fitted with the Reshef Technologies OMEGA M127 electronic fuze which is set before the round is fired. At the set range the forward section of the M494 round ruptures releasing approximately 5,000 small flechette darts and a dye marker. The flechettes are dispersed in a cone-shaped pattern which is 300m long and about 94m wide.

Although the IDF spokesman refused to comment on operational matters, other IDF sources told JDW that commanders are under orders to use the round sparingly and insist it has been employed on only a "handful" of occasions in Gaza. They said the round is used against targets such as mortar crews who cannot be engaged effectively by automatic fire.

"The Israeli military obtained these weapons from the USA after the 1973 war and we have thousands of old shells in warehouses," said an Israeli defence source. "The weapon is not regarded as reliable or effective and gunners have a difficult time in aiming this properly."

Israel Military Industries has developed a 120mm APERS round and the more advanced 105mm and 120mm Anti-Personnel, Anti-Materiel (APAM) round, which is intended to defeat targets such as anti-tank teams. Military sources said the APAM has not been used against Palestinian combatants.

The use of flechette rounds in war is not proscribed by the Geneva Convention but their use in internal security operations is more problematic. A US State Department official told JDW: "There has been no determination as to whether Israel has done something to violate the Arms Export Control Act" or any other arms-related law or agreement in its recent military actions. The official added that the state and defence departments are reviewing those actions and Israel's use of other US-supplied weapons, but refused to confirm whether the flechette rounds were specifically included.

********************************

I have no idea what happened but the more I read about this event the more I suspect that the tank commander believed they were taking out an anti-tank crew. A large video camera with a big lens pointing at you probably looks a lot like an anti-tank launcher at 2 km.

[idontwantaname]

8. bottom line is someone behind the trigger screwed up

and in the end a life is a life no matter how noble the cause. now steps can be taken by either side to solve this, or you can come to the conclusion that if you put screws and nails in your bomb and detonate it in a civilian area, so will i.

[Scurrilous]

13. Israel says probes death of Reuters cameraman

<snip>

"The Israeli army said on Sunday it was investigating the death of a Reuters cameraman in the Gaza Strip last week and declined to say why one of its tanks opened fire, killing the journalist and five other Palestinians.

Four days after 24-year-old Fadel Shana was hit by a spray of metal darts from a controversial missile, the international news agency welcomed the response to its demands for an inquiry and urged the army to present its findings speedily.

Two teenagers died on Sunday of wounds sustained in the incident on Wednesday, raising the death toll to six.

The Israel Defence Forces said: "The IDF is conducting a field investigation to look into the claims regarding the circumstances of the death of a Reuters cameraman."

It added that it investigated all instances of civilian deaths and that all such field investigations were passed to the armed forces' senior law officer, the Military Advocate General.

Reuters Managing Editor for the Middle East, Mark Thompson, said: "We welcome this investigation and urge the IDF to share its findings with us as soon as possible."

more

[bemildred]

14. I don't know if Israel did, but it's pretty clear the tank crew did. nt

[azurnoir]

15. The Israeli investigation into this incident will be

every bit as thorough as its investigation in to James Miller's death, and most likely reach a similar conclusion.

James Henry Dominic Miller (18 December 1968 - 2 May 2003) was a Welsh cameraman, producer, and director, and recipient of numerous awards, including five Emmy Awards. He often worked with Saira Shah with whom he founded and operated an independent production company called Frostbite Productions in 2001. He was killed by a single shot fired by the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) on 2 May 2003 while filming a documentary in Rafah.<1>

The Israeli Military Police investigation into Miller's death closed on 9 March 2005 with an announcement that the soldier suspected of firing the shot would not be indicted as they could not establish that his shot was responsible, though he would be disciplined for violating the rules of engagement and for changing his account of the incident.<2> On 6 April 2006, the inquest jury at St Pancras Coroner's Court in London returned a verdict of unlawful killing, finding that Miller had been "murdered."<1> After meetings with the Miller family, the Attorney General, Lord Goldsmith, sent a formal request to his Israeli counterpart in June 2007 for prosecution proceedings to be enacted within six weeks against the soldier responsible for firing the shot.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Miller_(filmmaker)

Unfortunately Fadel Shana was Palestinian not British, so any investigation by Palestinians that differs from Israels findings will be dismissed out of hand.