Security cameras capture dozens of Jewish teens assaulting Arab in J'lem

[ProgressiveMuslim]

By Uri Blau

Dozens of Jewish teenagers assaulted two Arab teens near a mall in Jerusalem's Pisgat Ze'ev neighborhood in an unprovoked attack on the eve of Holocaust Memorial Day. Haaretz has obtained footage of the attack caught on tape by the mall's security cameras.

An indictment was filed two weeks ago against 11 teenage suspects, eight of them minors. The boys allegedly responded to an ICQ message calling on those with "Jewish blood" to "put an end to all the Arabs hanging around" Pisgat Ze'ev. They gathered near the neighborhood mall armed with knives, sticks and clubs and brutally assaulted two Arab boys, 16 and 18, who were passing by on their way home to Shoafat refugee camp.

One of the victims, Ahmed Abu Kamal, escaped after being stabbed in the back, but his friend, as one suspect told police, became a "trampoline and punching bag."

The footage shows the Jewish boys waiting near the mall. At 10:48 P.M., the two Arabs walk by. After a brief conversation, one of them is thrown into the street, pushed to the safety railing and attacked.

The victim told police: "We were jumped by a group of more than 80 kids with clubs and knives in their hands and they attacked us. All I remember now is fainting and waking up in the hospital."

more..
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/PrintArticleEn.jhtml?itemNo=987692

[still_one]

1. The hate that is propagated by both sides will lead to more situations like this

until the "adults" finally decide that maybe it is in all parties interest to sit down and talk

[LeftishBrit]

2. I strongly agree.!

And in the immediate term, the culprits need to be severely punished by the law, to show that such actions won't be tolerated.

[notfullofit]

3. Positive response

I hope this is the view of most Israelis

Title: Animals

Name: JR

City: Netanya State:


Yes, we have our fair share of scumbags as well.
These animals deserve to be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives.
In fact, I think there should be a special law which has more severe punishments for acts that bring dishonor on our religion and our culture. If you act as bad as the enemy, you are as bad as the enemy, therefore you should be treated as the enemy.

I think 95% of Israelis would feel as sick as I do to see this happening.

[azurnoir]

5. But will they be punished

I seriously doubt it or it will a "for show" type thing if at all, the article says "a pattern of violence" meaning that it has been going on for a period of time so most likely it has also been being tolerated and is considered to message to those Arabs who insist on living on "Jewish" soil.

[pelsar]

6. love the imagination...

always trys to cover all grounds.....so if they are punished (they have been arrested)...its means its "only for show"...perhaps explain, as per your definition of what an arrest would look like if it wasnt for show....feel free to define, so i can better understand.


the "pattern of violence" ....i've missed that pattern...perhaps a bit of research in to other attacks upon arabs that show the "pattern". I cant say i've noticed it, but assume you have?

[azurnoir]

7. Arrested does not mean charged

charged does not mean convicted, convicted does not sentenced, sentenced does not mean .......... is what for show means, there are a few steps between arrest and actual punishment, unless of course you are suggesting that the arrest it self was enough.

But I asked a question it always amazes me that a mere question can bring accusations.

always trys to cover all grounds.....so if they are punished (they have been arrested)...its means its "only for show"...perhaps explain, as per your definition of what an arrest would look like if it wasnt for show....feel free to define, so i can better understand.

As for where I got the word pattern from it was Ha'artz article linked to by another poster

Last month's attack by a Jewish mob on Arab youths got ample press, but shouldn't be considered an isolated incident.
In fact, Arab residents of Jerusalem, particularly taxi drivers, detail a pattern of racially-motivated violent acts by religious Jews.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/988061.html

[pelsar]

8. first the accusation...

disguised as question..

most likely it has also been being tolerated and is considered to message to those Arabs who insist on living on "Jewish" soil.

how many times have you made such?...i recall how you asked/accused how the israeli govt didnt care about the kassams because "there were no ashkenazi sabras in the area...until it was pointed out that there are...or sharons ranch?....what was the question?...something about if sharons ranch was in range? (except that it is)

and of course there was the westbank water acquifer, i'm sure you made it into question/accusation that israel must be in the westbank to steal the water...(except for the fact that the water acquifer goes under the 67 line....)

wasnt there something you questioned about israel probably needing to steal water from Lebanons Litani (i remember vaguly abunch of incredibly dumb posts about that once-though i dont recall who it was...but i admit it does sound like something you would post.)
______

i realize you have a problem with israels existance as per your posts, but research is really a good thing to do, and if you do want to accuse us israels of wanton racism, murder, massacres, stealing water/land, starvation, genocide, targeting journalists, civilians, having a country with a jewish character, not drafting druze, muslims, etc (i may have missed a few, or added a few..i'm working from memory), doing some research is a good thing. It wont change your mind about anything, but its just a good habit to have.

__

the kids are under house arrest....

[azurnoir]

9. On the first

I conceded that you were right, but apparently that is not enough

On the second I stand my ground, the West Bank has much more water than Gaza, we discussed that a long time ago I gave you the figure for each including above and below ground water , arable land and land under irrigation, I do not remember your answer so possibly there was none

as to the last one I never thought Israel wanted the Litani to impractical and Israel could not hold Lebanon, the cost is too high.

and particularly rich

realize you have a problem with israels existance as per your posts, but research is really a good thing to do, and if you do want to accuse us israels of wanton racism, murder, massacres, stealing water/land, starvation, genocide, targeting journalists, civilians, having a country with a jewish character, not drafting druze, muslims, etc (i may have missed a few, or added a few..i'm working from memory), doing some research is a good thing. It wont change your mind about anything, but its just a good habit to have.

Show me were I have accused Israel of starvation, genocide, targeting civilians, murder, having a country with a Jewish character (not quite sure what you mean)? and last but not least not drafting druze Pelsar if I may remind it was you not me that was unaware that Israel drafted the Druze as Druze leaders formally requested many years ago, it took a lengthy discussion and several links before you were convinced I will admit that I was surprised you did not know, as for Muslims are you claiming that Israel does draft them? I said Israel should draft everyone of age into some kind of public service not just any particular group.

[Behind the Aegis]

12. Though not Pelsar...

"Show me were I have accused Israel of starvation, genocide, targeting civilians, murder, having a country with a Jewish character (not quite sure what you mean)? "

azurnoir (1000+ posts) Tue Jun-26-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. There was an NPR interview last week
with a Doctor in Gaza who stated that they were basically out of medicines, Israel allowed albeit grudgingly 20 trucks a day, citing security as usual.

After all slow starvation and death from disease is not genocide is it? :sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=178807&mesg_id=178810

Your :sarcasm: tag implies you believe genocide is being committed.

There are the first two "charges."

[azurnoir]

16. Selective sarcasm?

or a useage that suits your needs, the most you can say if you were truthful is that I used the words, the interpretation is your own and hardly a surprise.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. Face it. You got caught.

Spin any way you'd like you did say Israel was causing "a slow starvation" and equated that act to genocide. I am the one being truthful, are you?

[azurnoir]

22. Yes I am being truthful

and I am not spinning

[Behind the Aegis]

25. And, I am the Pope.

:sarcasm:

Truthful or not?

[azurnoir]

26. So are you saying if I were

Catholic I should kiss your "ring"?:sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

30. Not even. n/t

[pelsar]

23. perhaps this will help explain.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x212914

azurnoir wrote
Generally hate and dislike have the same meaning

____

to be fair...and if you read the posts, unbelievable as it may seem, azurnoir actually posted the dictionary definitions and "conceded" that hate and dislike are not the same thing

So I will concede Israel barred Finkelstein because he "disapproves" of the governmental policies
____

how anyone can actually seriously attempt to explain that hate and dislike are the same is beyond me, but it sure does help explain the loose definitions found in these parts....

[azurnoir]

27. Unbeleivable?

Explain exactly how hate and dislike are so entirely different. Hate is a stronger term than dislike,, but according to you they mean entirely different things so please explain

[pelsar]

29. i believe it came up..

when you replaced my dislike with the word "hate".......and then claimed they were the same. if so why did you bother replacing mine?

i think most people would not confuse the two and actually have to go to a dictionary to find the difference....i really dont think i have to explain the differences.....

[azurnoir]

31. No you do have to explain 'cause I did

but oops I am "throwing 'tude" again

[pelsar]

35. hate does not equal dislike

and they are not interchangeable as you seem to have thought they are. The dictionary definition is pretty clear about that as well: -feel free to pick any dictionary

More so, i believe if you were to take a poll and ask people if they believe hate and dislike are interchangeable or mean the same thing 99.99% would say no..and this would include linguistics professors as well.

perhaps a couple of sudanese who dont speak english might not understand the difference, but the rest would.

____

i find the idea that one has to explain that "hate" and dislike" are not the same to be ridiculous....but you did look it up yourself and i guess you were surpised to learn that they are not the same.

hate and dislike, like "love and like" are simply not interchangeable......

[azurnoir]

38. Depends on the usage Pelsar

Is I dislike cheddar cheese that different from I hate cheddar cheese? Or I love swiss cheese much different from I like swiss cheese? but a week ago I conceded you were right on the subject however you apparently do not have the grace to accept that.

[pelsar]

39. i apologize....then

for my lack of grace......i shall drop it. (i do have a bad tendency not to "let go"..)

[azurnoir]

40. Thank you n/t

[azurnoir]

28. Face it yourself

in your desperation to "get" me on something you came up with one comment where I used the terms genocide and starvation and then try to purport that they reflect my entire opinion, puleez.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. No desperation, except on your part.

A challenge was issued, met, and then denied. No one has said it reflects your "entire" opinion, not me, not Pelsar, so this is yet one more example of "moving the goalposts." The only desperation is on your part trying to project your issues onto me, claiming things that didn't happen, and denying it was said in earnest.

[azurnoir]

33. Why would I be desparate

because I asked if death from disease and slow starvation equated to genocide,on a thread that was about a report from OxFam? OK if you wish you got I used the term in a thread about the subject LOL now run along and scream elsewhere about how I am a antisemite or a liar or an antisemtic liar, it is your privilege there and there I can not rebut you either, but here it is different.

[Behind the Aegis]

34. There is nothing to rebut,

Pelsar said you claimed something, I showed you did. You can pretend all you want is was simply a "harmless" question asked about a report, but those with basic reading comprehension skills will be able to understand you used sarcasm to relay your belief that Israel is causing a slow starvation, which in turn is responsible for the genocide of the Palestinians of Gaza. Try not to spin anymore, you will only get more dizzy and those other accusations, those are reflections of yourself in the mirror.

[azurnoir]

36. As I said you pulled one quote

and are trying to now falsely purport that it represents that I believe that Israel is committing genocide. If that is the case then after over 1,000 posts you should be able to find much more, prove your point, but I notice you do not, because you can not prove anything except that I used the word once and for your own purposes you claim that this proves that I believe Israel is committing genocide, that claim is false and sir if you really wish to prove anything you will provide more evidence otherwise you are being to put it politely disingenuous.
Rebut any way you want, I am done with it having said what I need to say.
If this is your claim prove it, oh thats right you found that I used the word once lol that is all you need, right?

[Behind the Aegis]

41. One quote was all that was needed.

You said: "Show me were I have accused Israel of starvation, genocide, targeting civilians, murder, having a country with a Jewish character (not quite sure what you mean)?"

I showed where you accused Israel of "slow starvation" and implied it was part of a genocide.

The 'goal' was not to prove you "believe" Israel is committing genocide, the goal was to show you had accused Israel of genocide. So, despite your attempts to move the goalposts, once again, I successfully showed "...were (you) have accused Israel of starvation, genocide,..."

"As I said you pulled one quote and are trying to now falsely purport that it represents that I believe that Israel is committing genocide." Again, the goal was not to prove you believe Israel is committing genocide. In my prior post, I even clearly said: "No one has said it reflects your "entire" opinion, not me, not Pelsar..." Therefore, the rest of your post is moot.

Your challenge was to prove if you had ever accused Israel of starvation and genocide. The challenge was met with an affirmation. The challenge was not to prove you believed Israel is committing genocide (and starvation, though you dropped that part of the conversation).

[ProgressiveMuslim]

13. As with the Jim Crow south in the US...

the existence of the segreation, the separate and unequal, is what breeds the contempt.

The kids might be punished, but will that really change the cultural zeitgeist?

I do hope the proceedings will be followed. I would love to hear how their lawyers argue.

[notfullofit]

14. The

seeds have to have been sown somewhere.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. What seeds? Of Israeli contempt for its Arab citizenry? nt

[notfullofit]

17. No, not

collective Israeli contempt but the contempt sewn from the parents of the young monsters that commit these crimes.

Just to clarify, I don't believe in collective punishment from either side.

[pelsar]

20. the lawyers arent arguing it..

the kids are under house arrest, the adults are in prison. The lawyers (on tv) started to argue "good kids" bad influence but the interview cut him off with a really sarcastic remark....the lawyer then mentioned that no one is arguing the crime itself but its too early to go into punishments....

would you please stop with this nonsense:
the existence of the segreation, the separate and unequal. If you actually have some knowledge of such places, please enlighten me and if its not to out of my way, i'll even go and take pictures of the signs...

[pelsar]

19. i was writing from memory...hence the generalizations..which i mentioned

i had forgotten that druze are officially drafted, i stand corrected ( they do have an easy out, just be requesting). Muslims are not formally drafted.

the westbank water?..i believe your claim is that israel has to be in the westbank for the acquirer that is under the westbank...as mentioned its also under the israeli side of the 67 border. Hence its accessible from both sides. The second acquifer by the jordan valley feeds "the locals". (what "above ground water?...there are no lakes/ponds in the westbank, at best its runoff)

you have a constant flow of accusations (last one is about the potential of expelling arab israelis) of course you have no proof, your whole accusation seems to come from a poll which is about israelis preferring the govt to encourage arab emigration. From that you go to ethnic cleansing.

like so many of your accusations they have a flimsy base, but the accusations are always based in some form of israeli racism, be it against arab israelis, jewish israelis from arab countries etc

[notfullofit]

10. That's a

pretty strong accusation you make there.

Do you really doubt the offenders will be punished?
Do you really think this kind of behaviour is tolerated?

The comments I read in response to the article showed more outrage than tolerance.

[azurnoir]

11. See reply #7

now that there is a video tape maybe not but prior to the tape being made public?

[pelsar]

24. consistent.....

you dont make statements..you insuate about israels racial society via innocent questions......

now that there is a video tape maybe not but prior to the tape being made public?


you dont make direct accusations ....you do the " have you stopped beating your wife" type of question. Your insinuation is that only because there is a video tape is there any kind of indignation, had there not be, then such acts may very well be tolerated......


what was your last "question"? ...perhaps in the next election the govt will expel the arab israelis?

Do you deny that polls show 1/2 of Israeli Jews want Israeli Arabs expelled, albeit the government has not made any moves to do so or expressed support for such an ides, something IMHO that could possibly change depending on the outcome of the next elections.

in one sentence you claim there is no govt support and no evidence..and then the claim that maybe in the next elections they might?

its a great system you have there...accuse but always with a question mark at the end, so that when you accusation never happens (has any of them every materialized?) you just move on to the next one, but having implanted the idea that israel is a racist country..after all what kind of govt would even consider expelling its citizens?.

[azurnoir]

37. The quote should have read

now that there is a video tape maybe not but prior to the tape being made public?

rather than now that there is a video tape maybe not but prior to the tape being made public?

it was a typo and I did not notice it until after the edit time was up, I also have a habit of leaving out words such as to with ect however since it suits I am sure I will be held to to it so what.

as to what I said about the election that fact that it was a possibility counts for nothing, and is Bibi not running, who has stated if elected he will not abide by any "peace deals" signed by presumably Olmert? That kind of government or leader might also expel the Palestinians which I believe you prefer to call them, rather than Israeli Arabs.

[shaayecanaan]

4. video here:-

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/988061.html

[Malikshah]

18. The audio report states that the youths detained in the attack

are under house arrest.

Interesting.