Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Egypt tries to thwart Israel's plans in Europe

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:29 AM
Original message
Egypt tries to thwart Israel's plans in Europe
Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 02:41 AM by Behind the Aegis
Egypt has recently been attempting to thwart a proposed agreement to upgrade Israel's relationship with the European Union.

The proposed deal would significantly improve Israeli access to European markets, and could thus add billions of dollars to Israel's economy.

Israel first learned of the Egyptian efforts about two months ago, thanks to a tip received via diplomatic channels. The Foreign Ministry began investigating, and discovered that Cairo had instructed its ambassadors in Europe to wage a diplomatic campaign against the agreement.

As part of this campaign, Egyptian ambassadors in London, Paris, Brussels, Spain, Rome and other European capitals have met with high-level Foreign Ministry officials in their respective countries to ask them to reconsider the agreement. The Egyptian argument is that in light of Israel's ongoing construction in West Bank settlements and its blockade of Gaza, the EU must not reward Jerusalem in any way.

After confirming this Egyptian effort, Israel decided to confront Cairo. Senior Foreign Ministry officials warned their Egyptian counterparts that Israel views this effort very gravely and wants it stopped. However, the Egyptians denied any wrongdoing.

more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. And do we care??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Does it matter if you do?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Shaktimaan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:39 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yes, we do.
Some of us are interested in current events and politics in areas outside of our immediate vicinities. No one is forcing you to learn or care about any international news that you find boring. But since it has cross-continental importance that directly affects millions of people and has the potential to influence political decisions in places as far away as America, some of us have actually dragged our attentions away from half-off celebrity magazines for just long enough to spot check important global developments such as this one, which we care about and find interesting.

But feel free to refrain from caring yourself. We're all certainly thrilled to hear exactly how uninterested you are in these proceedings.

Tell us more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. I do and so do many others
Part of the reason we are in the mess we are in, in Iraq is because the majority of the American public pays no attention to international issues and thus, is more ignorant of the world than DUH-bya was about Shiites and Sunni's.

Your post speaks volumes about what little you know about western Asian and North African affairs.
And it appears you're quite happy with it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
7. Some do; some don't.
Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 09:55 AM by LeftishBrit
If you're interested in Israel, Egypt or the EU, then you may care. If not, well, you're not obliged to, any more than you're obliged to care about e.g. relations between China and Japan.

I am somewhat interested, as I belong to an EU country, as well as being interested in Middle Eastern issues. But the story does not surprise me. Though Israel and Egypt have, thank goodness, been at peace for many years, it's a negative sort of peace; they've never exactly loved each other.

"in light of Israel's ongoing construction in West Bank settlements and its blockade of Gaza, the EU must not reward Jerusalem in any way"

Well, it's a point of view. I think there does need to be some pressure with regard to the settlement construction. As regards the blockade of Gaza... well, maybe that too, but in that case, the EU also should not "reward Cairo in any way". The Egyptians have not exactly been that open to Gazans over the years themselves. Can you say HYPOCRISY?

Also: the Egyptians have every right to express their opinion, but as they're not members of the EU, it's not really for them to tell us what we 'MUST' or 'MUST not' do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Some of the most horrific anti-semitism
is prevalent in the Egyptian media.

Egyptians are also big sellers and purchasers of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and other virulently anti-semitic "literature" (and cartoons, commentary, etc).

It is a tenuous, shaky peace, at best.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #9
20. Yes - I've heard that there's a lot of antisemitism in the Egyptian media.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
4. Does Egypt
not have a blockade itself of Gaza?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. shh
we dont like talking about it......it kinda exposes all kinds of unpleasant things, like hypocrisy,or the real agenda (not so much the well being of the Palestinians as much as attempting to punish israel...)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. If I were
Israel, I'd tell the EU where to shove it, after all we know how Europe has treated the Jews in the past.

There should be some things money can't buy.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. While I see your point...
Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 01:11 PM by LeftishBrit
a lot has changed and most Europaean countries nowadays are NOT virulently antisemitic, or at least not when compared to other countries in the world (there are some, mostly East Europaean, exceptions; and sadly antisemitism exists to some degree virtually everywhere). I actually think that the American Christian Right poses a greater danger to Jews today than most EU countries do.

Europe's big form of bigotry today is anti-immigrant bigotry. So if there were suddenly lots of Jewish asylum-seekers - e.g. if, lord forbid, the 'one-state solution' took place - then I wouldn't rule out a return to serious antisemitism. But otherwise, I think Europe is one of the safer parts of the world for Jews - which doesn't mean it's completely safe; nowhere is.

Whether Israel wants to get involved, is of course up to them as well as to the EU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. In what way
is the American Christian Right a danger to the Jews?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vegasaurus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I don't see this either
unless people think that there will no longer be freedom of religion, which I don't think will happen in the US, even with the Christian right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The Christian
Right couldn't care less about other religions. If you don't accept Jesus on Judgment day you are going to hell anyway so why should they bother.

I just don't see them as a threat.

By reading the UK newspapers seems like anti-semitism is on the rise all over Europe no matter what they want you to think.

Been there, done that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. To clarify: which newspapers?
There are some right-wing papers such as the 'Daily Mail' that whip up anti-immigrant bigotry on a large scale. In the past, it WAS the Jews: they were pro-Nazi and serialized the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Nowadays, it's the East Europaeans, and the Muslims, and they tend to blame the latter for British antisemitism, though the British home-grown nuts are far more responsible in my opinion.

As regards more rational newspapers: yes, there is some rise in antisemitism and other forms of xenophobia in Europe, and it is particularly bad in some countries, especially Russia, Poland and some other Eastern Europaean countries. Italy has recently experienced a frightening surge to the xenophobic right: not specifically against Jews, but I fear this will come.

However, while I don't think that the risk of antisemitism should be minimized or dismissed, I have not personally felt in greater danger in the UK in the last few years than earlier; and most Jewish people whom I know personally seem to feel the same. I have felt far more frequently and personally targeted by animal-rights extremists - who threaten everyone who works at my university in any subject because the university is building an animal research lab - than by antisemites. Of course, the UK has always been one of the countries least affected by the more virulent sort of antisemitism; and I would certainly feel differently if I lived in Russia, or even some parts of France.

Here is a link to a rather good British site on antisemitism, which points out the problems and risks frankly, but doesn't predict doom any minute, and also places antisemitism in the broader context of xenophobia:

www.axt.org.uk
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Report on Global Anti-Semitism
snip...

The disturbing rise of anti-Semitic intimidation and incidents is widespread throughout Europe, although with significant variations in the number of cases and the accuracy of reporting. European governments in most countries now view anti-Semitism as a serious problem for their societies and demonstrate a greater willingness to address the issue. The Vienna-based European Union Monitoring Center (EUMC), for 2002 and 2003, identified France, Germany, the United Kingdom, Belgium, and The Netherlands as EU member countries with notable increases in incidents. As these nations keep reliable and comprehensive statistics on anti-Semitic acts, and are engaged in combating anti-Semitism, their data was readily available to the EUMC. Governments and leading public figures condemned the violence, passed new legislation, and mounted positive law enforcement and educational efforts.

In Western Europe, traditional far-right groups still account for a significant proportion of the attacks against Jews and Jewish properties; disadvantaged and disaffected Muslim youths increasingly were responsible for most of the other incidents. This trend appears likely to persist as the number of Muslims in Europe continues to grow while their level of education and economic prospects remain limited.


United Kingdom

Anti-Semitic incidents included physical attacks, harassment, desecration of property, vandalism and hateful speech, and racist letters and publications. The Community Security Trust, an organization that analyzed threats to the Jewish community and coordinated with police to provide protection to Jewish community institutions, recorded 511 anti-Semitic incidents between July 2003 and June 2004.

On June 25, near Manchester, a group of five persons physically assaulted a rabbi while shouting anti-Semitic statements. In October 2003, a man driving past Borhamwood Synagogue shouted anti-Semitic statements at members of the synagogue's security team.

The media also reported instances of desecration of synagogues, Jewish cemeteries, and religious texts. On June 17, vandals caused a fire in the South Tottenham United Synagogue that resulted in the destruction of Jewish prayer books smuggled out of Central Europe before World War II. On June 18, in an apparently unrelated incident, a suspicious fire damaged a synagogue and Jewish educational center in Hendon. On August 22, cemetery officials discovered the desecration of approximately 60 gravestones in a Jewish cemetery in Birmingham. Police charged two suspects with racially aggravated criminal damage, racially aggravated public disorder, and causing racially aggravated harassment, alarm, or distress. In November, vandals spray-painted swastikas and other Nazi symbols on 15 gravestones in a Jewish cemetery in Aldershot.

Nazi slogans and swastikas were painted on 11 Jewish gravestones at a Southampton cemetery in July 2003, and 20 Jewish gravestones were damaged at Rainsough cemetery in Manchester in August 2003. Police investigated the attacks as a racist incident. In November 2003, vandals desecrated 21 graves at a Jewish cemetery in Chatham, East Kent. Later in November, a deliberately set fire caused severe damage to the Hillock Hebrew Congregation near Manchester, and, in a separate incident, attackers used bricks to smash the windows of London's Orthodox Edgware Synagogue.

Members of some far-right political parties--such as the BNP, the National Front, and the White Nationalist Party--and some extremist Muslim organizations, such as Al-Muhajiroun, occasionally gave speeches or distributed literature expressing anti-Semitic beliefs, including denials that the Holocaust occurred.

The Crown Prosecution Service advised victims of anti-Semitic attacks on how to report the incidents and press charges against the assailants. Police services investigated anti-Semitic attacks, in addition to providing additional protection to Jewish community events where threat levels were considered to be elevated. The Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act of 2001 made it a crime to commit a religiously aggravated offense such as assault, criminal damage, or harassment. The Act also extended the prohibition against incitement to racial hatred to include cases where the hatred was directed at groups located outside the country. In addition, a 2003 regulation explicitly prohibiting racial harassment and a 1980 case law establishing Jews as a racial group provide legal protection against anti-Semitism. Authorities charged 18 persons with religiously aggravated offenses (the religious affiliation of the victims was not released) between December 2001 and March 2003, the most recent period for which data are available; of these, 8 were convicted.

In December 2003, new employment equality regulations regarding religion (or other belief) entered into force. The regulations prohibit employment discrimination based on religious belief, except where there is a "genuine occupational requirement" of a religious nature.

On October 19, police charged Abu Hamza al-Masri with four counts of soliciting or encouraging the killing of Jewish persons based on recordings of some of his addresses to public meetings.

Officials regularly reiterated the government's commitment to addressing anti-Semitism and protecting Jewish citizens through law enforcement and education. In February, Queen Elizabeth II awarded Nazi war crimes investigator Simon Wiesenthal an honorary knighthood in recognition of his efforts to counter anti-Semitism.

much more and a very informative read
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/40258.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yes. No denying that it's a significant problem...
Edited on Tue Jun-03-08 04:37 PM by LeftishBrit
and is probably worse in most countries than a few years ago. I think that this war, and the resulting tensions and instabilities, have led to a worrying rise in xenophobia including antisemitism.

However, I don't think that in Britain and Western Europe it even begins to approach the horrors of the pre-war past. Even in Britain, which was not linked to Nazism, there were horrific instances: Oswald Moseley and his Brownshirts; the Daily Mail's open support for the Nazis as I mentioned in a previous post; virulent antisemitism in the works of well-known and influential writers such as G.K. Chesterton.

George Orwell wrote a fascinating article on British antisemitism during and before the last war:

http://www.george-orwell.org/AntiSemitism_In_Britian/0.html

As regards other Europaean countries: neo-Nazis and other anti-semites and xenophobes are a big problem almost everywhere; but not really on the level of the 1930s. As I said earlier, the worst countries in Europe from this point of view are mostly some of those in Eastern Europe; but I doubt that even they are on anything like the level of the pogroms and blatant racism in the early 20th century (when some of my own ancestors became refugees along with so many others). It is also difficult to say how they compare with 20 or more years ago, as until the fall of the Soviet Union, such countries were less willing to admit their antisemitic incidents. There is certainly lots of evidence that life for Jews in the Soviet bloc was frequently far from a bed of roses!!!!

In other words: antisemitism in Europe is a serious problem as everywhere but I don't think we're in much danger of a reversion to the 1930s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
notfullofit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. I agree,
as bad as it is, nothing can compare to the prewar era.
However, even a little bit is a little bit too much.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. They appear to be a potential danger to anyone who's not Christian.
I admit that I'm not there, and may be exaggerating their influence because of their loud mouths. But as a secular Jew, I do find such people scary.

BTW, the most blatant antisemitism that I've encountered in person from Europaens, has come from a couple of Poles who associated the Jews with the former communist government, and a Spanish religious fundie type (not a Catholic interestingly, but a member of some small sect) who spouted all sorts of old-fashioned crap about how the Jews killed Jesus. Of course, we do have the homegrown variety in the UK; most nastily, the BNP (Bloody Nasty People) and other neo-Nazi types.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Precisely my point above!
If the EU are to snub or punish Israel for blockading Gaza, then logically they'd need to snub or punish Egypt for the same thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oberliner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Do you think Israel will ever become a member of the EU?
What is the perspective in the UK regarding that possibility?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I think it's unlikely to happen soon at any rate...
The EU recently absorbed a lot of new member states from Eastern Europe; and I think that, especially with all the debates in many countries about whether and to what extent there should be a 'federal Europe', there would be resistance to accepting a new country right now, especially one from outside Europe proper.

However, 'never is a long day', and I can't predict what will ultimately happen.

I do know a rather funny old story from the days about 30 years ago when the EU was still the EEC (Europaean Economic Community) and consisted of only about 10 countries, and there was a referendum about whether the UK should remain as a member. One canvasser was informed by a voter that he would definitely support staying in the EEC, 'as Israel is a member'. The canvasser replied that he was delighted by the pledge of support, but had to point out that Israel was not part of the EEC. The voter replied, "Oh yes, they must be. They're always in the Eurovision Song Contest".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-03-08 05:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thanks for the post
Unlike some people at DU I always appreciate posts like these.

It's nice to get information on a variety of areas around the world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2024, 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC