In Israel, Rice Criticizes West Bank Settlements

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Sunday pressed Israeli officials to halt settlement expansion in the West Bank and East Jerusalem but failed to win any concessions as she continued to push for a Middle East peace deal by the end of the year.

Rice was making her sixth visit to the region since peace talks resumed in Annapolis last November. Despite her efforts, there have been few public signs of progress and, in certain respects, conditions have deteriorated on the ground.

Rice on Sunday singled out Israeli plans to build thousands of new homes in disputed areas presently under Israeli control but claimed by the Palestinians. Referring to those plans, Rice said, "I do believe, and the United States believes, that the actions and the announcements that are taking place are indeed having a negative effect on the atmosphere for the negotiation -- and that is not what we want."

Israel agreed under the 2003 road map to peace that it would stop all settlement activity. But Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has said the Jewish state has the right to build in areas of the West Bank that will inevitably become part of Israel under a future peace deal. Israel has already annexed East Jerusalem -- although that move is not internationally recognized -- and does not consider building homes there to be settlement construction."

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[number6]

1. plain and simple the Israelis

do not want peace

[LeftishBrit]

3. THE Israelis? You mean ALL the Israelis?

A lot of the settlement activitiy IMO is due to a minority of hard-liners who get disproportionate power, due to a political system which enables small parties to hold the government hostage.

I think this is a wrong policy, and am glad that the American government is now exercising some pressure in the right direction.

But to say that "THE Israelis don't want peace" is a huge generalization - would you accept someone saying "The Palestinians don't want peace" or "The Americans don't want peace" in such broad terms?

[number6]

4. no, not all but a majority

most would rather have the settlements than have peace.
.....or look the other way,.. or be complacent

.....now thats my opinion, and not what I can prove


and yes I know Hamas does not want peace either ...

[Vegasaurus]

5. You obviously don't know many (any?) Israelis

because most desperately want peace.

They don't want warring neighbors lobbing rockets and mortars over their borders, making them look over their shoulders at all times.

You are very wrong about what you "think" Israelis believe.

[number6]

6. under what terms

"because most desperately want peace."

favorable to Palestinians or Israelis

I think Israel already destroyed the the two state solution with settlements ...

sure most people want to live in a peaceful situation ....

the biggest bully on the block lives in peace, cause nobody else can kick his ass

"You are very wrong about what you "think" Israelis believe."

I observe their actions, and that tells me a lot

many Israelis politicians want to Attack Iran
and they supported the Iraq war

I don't know what most Israelis ("think") believe.
do you claim to know what most Israelis "think".

[Violet_Crumble]

9. And you obviously don't know many (any) Palestinians...

because you make the same generalisation about Palestinians constantly. My guess is that anyone who portrays either Israelis or Palestinians as the forces of good against the forces of evil doesn't have a clue about either group of people...

[number6]

7. some don't

"would you accept someone saying "The Palestinians don't want peace" or "The Americans don't want peace" in such broad terms?

"The Palestinians don't want peace" after being treated like shit for 60 years, I can see
a lot of Palestinians wanting to kick Israel ass ....

"The Americans don't want peace" a lot of Americans are chicken hawk, arm chair
warriors who talk tuff and somebody else goes and dies in Iraq and Afghanistan.
in such broad terms? a lot of people in the world probably look at us(USA) that way.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

8. The majority of Israelis are clearly not able to change the system... does that connote support for

position of the power-holders?

[Violet_Crumble]

10. But "The Palestinians don't want peace" pops up here with annoying regularity...

But to say that "THE Israelis don't want peace" is a huge generalization - would you accept someone saying "The Palestinians don't want peace" or "The Americans don't want peace" in such broad terms?

That same generalisation you've picked up on in this case happens on a regular basis in this forum when it comes to the Palestinians. The problem I've always had with it is that some people seem incapable of distinguishing between leaderships and the population itself, but in the case of this sort of generalising when it's aimed at the Palestinians it's often accompanied by insisting that it's the population who elected the leaders as some weird attempt to justify the generalising. I wish people would make a clear distinction and when they're talking about govts, state that they're talking about a govt, etc...

[LeftishBrit]

11. Don't know about 'a regular basis'; but yes, it's happened.

I disagree with the use of such phrases about the Palestinians, the Israelis or any country,

'I wish people would make a clear distinction and when they're talking about govts, state that they're talking about a govt, etc...'

I agree.

I also think that hawkish types on all sides often *do* want peace, but have what in my view is generally a mistaken idea of how to achieve it.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. I assume you read most of the threads here?

Because it happens on a regular basis. I'd post links to a whole bunch of them, but as it's one poster here who does it, I don't really want to single them out with link after link to where they've done it...

Peace is a concept that means different things to different people. When folk like you or me talk about peace we're talking about both Israelis and Palestinians living in their own independent states and being able to live their lives without being attacked or living in fear of being killed by rockets and bullets. For hawkish types on all sides it often translates as them wanting peace for whatever 'side' they're cheering for at the expense of the other 'side'.

[Vegasaurus]

13. I doubt there is a single zionist on this forum

who does not want two independent states with people able to "live their lives without being attacked or living in fear of being killed by rockets and bullets".

I challenge you to find a single zionist here who does not want that.

The only people who don't want two states are anti-zionists, who push for a "single state", which is really the end of Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

14. I've got no doubts you'd think that...

After all, you've said in the past that DU is crawling with Hamas supporters, so I treat all of yr opinions with a massive grain of salt....

There's been quite a few hardliners in this forum since I've been here who call themselves Zionists and don't want two independent states and only care about peace for Israelis and not for Palestinians. I could rattle off their names, but I doubt you'd be the slightest bit interested in it even if I went to the old DU and dug up posts where some of them specifically voiced opposition to the creation of a Palestinian state...

[Vegasaurus]

16. Don't waste your time digging around in the archives for banned people

I am talking about right now.

I challenge you to find a single poster on this forum, who supports Israel as a Jewish state, who is opposed to a Palestinian state, living peacefully side by side.

[Violet_Crumble]

19. I've already told you I wouldn't waste my time doing it for you...

I just went back and checked what I'd posted in reply to Leftishbrit and I suggest you go back and read it properly and notice that I didn't say a word about this forum when I mentioned hardliners. And after carefully reading what I said and being careful not to morph it into something I didn't say, I'm sure you'll still insist every pro-Israeli who posts in this forum displays their concern for a *peace* that includes both Israelis and Palestinians and not just Israelis, and waffle on about anti-Zionists and other nonsense that had nothing to do with what I said...

[Violet_Crumble]

15. As you regularly generalise by using 'the Palestinians' I have a question...

Kind of timely that you popped into this bit of the thread. Given that you engage in the very same sort of generalising that was being discussed in this part of the thread, I take it you have no problems with it at all when people refer to 'the Israelis' and blur the line between the actions of the govt and the actual population?

[Vegasaurus]

17. I have no doubt that many Palestninans would like to live in peace and security

It's too bad so many of them rejoice in the murder of Israelis though, celebrate martydom, and continue to shoot rockets and mortars and support terrorism.

These actions drown out the voices of the people who don't want anything to do with the terrorism of their nation.

It's a pity.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. There you go again contradicting yrself...

Many Palestinians do NOT rejoice in the murder of Israelis and most certainly do NOT shoot rockets and mortars. That's as wrong as saying many Israelis don't want peace and support a Greater Israel. This is the problem I see with many of yr posts. You make negative generalisations about the Palestinian people at will regardless of how many times you've been corrected on yr false assumptions....

A serious question. What do you hope to gain by posting here at DU? An increased knowledge of the complexities of the conflict? Stunning people into submission with the *truth* as you see it? Doesn't it get incredibly boring posting the same short and bitter one-dimensional talking points ad nauseum?

[LeftishBrit]

2. I don't often agree with Condi Rice but I do here.