Gaza rocket hits Israel

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"A rocket fired from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip has landed in southern Israel, an Israeli army spokesperson has said.

The rocket, which landed in an open field near the town of Sderot on Thursday, is the fourth to be fired since a ceasefire agreed between Israel and Hamas came into effect on June 19

Israeli medical officials said there were no casualties in Thursday's attack which was claimed by the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed group linked to the Fatah faction of Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president.

Abu Qusai, a spokesman for the Brigades, said: "The rocket attack was in response to Israeli violations. Any calm deal must end Israeli attacks on our people in the West Bank too."

The Israeli army killed two Palestinians in a raid on the West Bank on Wednesday, an attack that the Islamic Jihad movement had already claimed as provocation for the three rockets fired later the same day."

more

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. There's no cease fire in the West Bank. Poor Gaza ... held hostage again n/t

[pegleg]

19. They're holding themselves hostage.

If they can find a way to screw up their only hope for nationhood they do it.

[Vegasaurus]

20. As they have done for over 60 years

so many opportunities.

So many chances with worldwide support (except from the arab world), so much money in donations, all to help the Palestinians.

They have pizzed away from possible chance, because they don't really want their own state, they just want the state of Israel (with no Jews).

[Vegasaurus]

2. Maybe it is time to stop the rockets altogether

a novel concept, I know, but it hasn't been tried, and everything else the Palestinians have tried is a failure.

No rockets, and an effort to have their own state!

Truly ground breaking!

:sarcasm:

[Sezu]

3. But what about the jobs of the "resistance?"

What will they do? How will they put meat on the table without a job?

[subsuelo]

4. Not to worry, U.S. support for Israel is unwavering n/t

[Scurrilous]

5. Hamas: Qassam fire is harming Palestinian interests

<snip>

"The Hamas government in the Gaza Strip voiced its rage on Thursday after Gaza militants fired two rockets into southern Israel Thursday, causing no injuries but further straining a shaky, week-old truce between Israel and the Gaza rulers.

The militant group Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, affiliated with Hamas rivals Fatah, claimed responsibility for Thursday's Qassam strikes. In a statement carried by the official Palestinian news agency Ma'an, Hamas warned the militant factions against violating the terms of the cease fire with Israel, saying such violations harmed the Palestinian national interest. Hamas also threatened to take the necessary steps against the violators.

A Hamas spokesman said the "tahadiyeh" (calm) was a national Palestinian interest, and that anyone who tried to sabotage it was acting in an "anti-national" way. He called on Egypt, which brokered the cease fire agreement, to talk to those factions that are "motivated by anti-national politics."

The Hamas government spokesman added that harming the national interest for the purpose of settling personal scores "works to advance the interests of the Israeli occupation."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/996294.html

[azurnoir]

6. So Fatah claimed resposibility

but I am sure Hamas will be blamed though, Hmmmmmm.

[pelsar]

7. classic....

so if and when israeli attempts to stop the rockets...will you be claiming that is "israel that is breaking the cease fire'?

furthermore, hamas sure didnt have a problem with killing fatah people before.....one must wonder what is stopping them now....perhaps knowing that the second israel does something, we'll hear the chorus blaming israel for violence?......

they do it again and again...and the same people fall for the same trick over and over again....

[azurnoir]

8. Fail at what trick?

My first post on Tuesday on this subject was that I held neither side wholly innocent or responsible, and that is still my stance no matter how inaccurately you try to portray it.

[pelsar]

9. the trick

is that Palestinian group A makes a truce with israel and attempts to give the impression that it has control....Palestinians group B shoots at israel....Group A claims it has no control over group A...in the meantime eventually israel reacts and presto: the headlines are that israel is breaking the truce.

yes i understand that you're trying to blame israel for breaking the truce..except that the only way you can do it is to bring in israeli actions that arent part of the agreement......

[azurnoir]

10. If Israel knew that it's actions

would very likely provoke a response, then why do it? Unless of course your claim is that Israel has no idea that it would be provocation or is it "they" should be used to it by now.

I am not making Israel guilty of anything really, I hardly think anyone who follow this conflict is surprised, although some may be disappointed

The trick you re attempting is to constantly make me explain why I hold both sides responsible and perhaps incite some antiIsrael statements- won't work. IMHO IJ was stupid for retaliating too.

[pelsar]

11. "she deserved to be raped" defense?

i believe that is now your defense of the Palestinians rockets:....the "girl wore provocative clothing, hence she deserved to be raped" (this is not an acceptable defense in the west amongst liberal democracies, though in the east under certain govts)

sounds pretty desperate.....
If Israel knew that it's actions would very likely provoke a response..in case you missed it .....israels very existence is provocative.....

this is a classic example of yours, the subtle blame israel
IMHO IJ was stupid for retaliating too. ...first you may claim israel is not guilty of anything then two sentences later, your conclusive sentence is that you blame IJ for being stupid for RETALIATING...

if their being dumb for retaliating that means israel must have done something wrong.... even if you write before that israel didnt.....

[azurnoir]

12. She who?

Last night you were claiming that Hamas knew that there would be raids, they happen nightly and they should be used to it or something to that effect.

However things have changed a bit apparently the UN has a different take on things at least according to Ynet

UN: Israel violated truce 7 times in one week

UN records 7 incidents of IDF soldiers attempting to drive Palestinian farmers away from border fence by shooting at them. Only one offence marked against Palestinians for firing on Sderot; report does not include most recent rocket fire

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3560972,00.ht...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x216402

So are your claims a distraction? The UN's numbers are not accurate or up to date which IMHO should be changed, Ynet points that out but the violations date back at least a couple of days prior to the rockets.

I knew about the eldarly farmer being wounded but did not know all of the circumstances

[pelsar]

13. the nightly raids....

its quite reasonable to assume that hamas, iJ fatah know about them, since they spend much of their time avoiding them....

do some reading here and you'll learn a bit about the raids.....
http://www.kibush.co.il/show_file.asp?num=1734


but i guess that makes it a provocation when IJ and friends need an excuse to shoot rockets



i'm afraid my claims arent a 'distraction"....just based on my own knowledge.....and the agreement....

Hamas was told (this was on israeli TV/radio) that they wont be allowed to approach the border fence (and plant bombs), they will be warned away-again part of the agreement.
(those "farmers"....yea i 've seen them, sometimes they get confused and instead of bring farming tools they bring their AK-47 with them....)

[azurnoir]

14. Thanks for the link on the raids

it was an interesting account

However even with the UN report my stance has not changed, there are no innocent parties here, doesn't matter who did what first or "who started it this time", really IMHO nitpicking that stuff is a part of what keeps it going and the only thing that truly matters matters is how it ends

[pelsar]

15. i disagree....

it does matter "who started it"....not so much for any kind of childish "who started it"..but because it goes toward responsibility. If Hamas declares a cease fire and cant/wont hold it citizens 'in check" then they are useless as a negotiating partner....

its one thing to say, were trying our best to stop the kassams and will punish those that shoot them...its another thing to say...we wont stop them, we'll just try to convince them not to shoot.

if that is the attitude, which it clearly is, then they are hardly the ones to be talking to about a truce....and it wont end until they take full responsibility for the actions of its citizens and those within its borders.

___

on a side note....i care less about disagreeing or interpreting events differently...i do care about having accurate information, the story,(in the link) is a realistic account of a night in the territories as far as i can tell.

[azurnoir]

16. Responsible for what?

Breaking the truce or upholding it? Both? The problem here is contentious, one side will invariably say the other "did it", however Hamas has has made a new announcement about arresting truce breakers.

Zahar pledges to arrest truce breachers

Hamas leaders in the Gaza Strip over the weekend issued new warnings to the Palestinian armed groups against violating the cease-fire agreement with Israel and threatened to arrest anyone who does not abide by it.
The latest warnings came after members of Fatah and Islamic Jihad fired a number of rockets at Israel last week.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1214492525696&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Accuracy on this subject can be difficult what was accurate yesterday might not be so today as events are moving quickly. IMHO Hamas had to be careful as to how they dealt with IJ and any other factions that were breaking the truce. move too quickly and a civil insurrection was a very possible outcome, move too slowly and a "military intervention" was also possible. I will admit I wondered if there were not hardliners on both sides that were hoping for one of these, finding those outcomes more desirable than peace.

On my own sidebar-what at least for awhile seemed to getting forgotten was that was that a collapse of the truce might well doom Gilad Shalit at least his release, hopefully this poor kid will be home within the next week. And Iran, if Hamas and Israel can make this work it gives Iran one less theater of operation, albeit the smaller one.

[azurnoir]

17. Also do you know of

any written online copies of the truce agreement?

[pelsar]

18. its not written...

on purpose as neither israel nor hamas "recognize each other"....fun political games