Essential things Israelis and Iranians should know about each other

[LeftishBrit]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1003236.html

update - 22:23 19/07/2008


Essential things Israelis and Iranians should know about each other

By Trita Parsi and Roi Ben-Yehuda

Tags: Iran, Zionism, Roi Ben-Yehuda

The looming Iran-Israel confrontation has a seemingly deterministic quality to it. Listening to the politicians, one gets a sense that powers beyond our control are pulling us toward a 21st-century disaster. Yet a great deal of the force propelling us into confrontation is fueled by ignorance and dehumanization. Israel is demonized as "Little Satan," while Iranians are portrayed as irrational Muslim extremists.

Indeed, mutual ignorance of our respective societies plays into the hands of the hard-line leaders who are calling for blood and destruction. They manipulate and distort; above all, they do everything to prevent us from recognizing that the enemy has a face.

Not that either of us is naive enough to believe that mere knowledge of one another will offer a miraculous solution. We do believe, however, that mutual understanding will go a long way toward allowing us to feel empathy and compassion for each other, and to sound off at those calling for bloodshed and war.


Here are some essential things Iranians and Israelis should know about each other:

(more at link)

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Ben-Yehuda makes some very good points

The one that struck a chord with me was that, like Israel, Iran has felt that it was isolated from the rest of the world. It was a very important point that Iranians do not share culture or religion with the Arab world.

[notfullofit]

2. Just liike Israel......it can rely only on itself.'

'The United Nations didn't consider Saddam's invasion a threat to international peace and security; it took the Security Council more than two years to call for a withdrawal. Another five years passed before it addressed Saddam's use of chemical weapons. For the Iranians, the lesson was clear: When in danger, Iran can rely on neither the Geneva Conventions nor the UN Charter for protection. Just like Israel, Iran has concluded that it can rely only on itself.'


This part jumped right off the page at me, sound familiar?

[notfullofit]

3. But unlike Israel....

Eight women and one man convicted of adultery are set to be stoned to death in Iran, activists said Sunday.


An Iranian woman in a demonstration buried in sand in a mock-stoning .
Photo: Courtesy

Lawyer and women's rights activist, Shadi Sadr, said the nine were convicted of adultery in separate cases in different Iranian cities.

"Their verdicts are approved, and they may be executed at any time," she told reporters.

Sadr, who has been leading a campaign in Iran against stoning deaths since 2006, said trial protocol was not applied properly in the cases. Six of the nine were convicted based solely on judges' decisions with no witnesses or the presence of their lawyers during their confessions, she said.

Most of the nine come from areas of Iran that have low rates of literacy and some did not understand the cases against them, she said.

One of Sadr's colleagues, Mohammad Mostafai, said his client, Malak Qorbani, had pleaded guilty to adultery even though she did not know the meaning of the charge.

The nine are between 27 and 50 years old, among them a male music teacher who was convicted of adultery for having an affair with one of his students, the activists said.

"We are trying to stop the implementation of their verdicts. And secondly, we want to amend the country's penal law, in which death by stoning is prescribed," Sadr said.

more
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215331032586&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[subsuelo]

4. and Israel should be proud of the murders of Palestinians?

[notfullofit]

5. Where did anybody say that? nt

[subsuelo]

10. what was your point then? nt

[notfullofit]

13. The point is...

pointing out where there are NOT similarities.

Do the Israelis stone women to death for adultery?
Do the Israelis execute gay people?

[subsuelo]

14. That's what I thought

Let's continue showing where there are NOT similarities.

Are the Iranians massacring their neighbors with helicopter gunships and cluster bombs?
Are the Iranians developing an Apartheid system where an unwanted section of the population is herded into reservation camps?

Shall we continue?

[notfullofit]

15. No, don't bother

as soon as I saw the word 'Apartheid" I get where you are coming from.

[subsuelo]

16. Yeah, I'm against it. Sorry you have such a big problem with that.

[notfullofit]

17. Sorry, I'm not taking your bait.

[subsuelo]

18. Because you have no case

[Violet_Crumble]

22. I got a similar response when I asked the poster to define *anti-Israel*....

...after he posted a link to an article talking about water shortages in the region as an example of *anti-Israel* reporting. Never did get an answer to that one...

It's a bit irritating to read such a good OP as the one that was posted which focused on the humanity of Iranians and Israelis, and then see responses in this thread from people who have totally missed or ignored the point of the article and embark on a of 'the Iranians do this horrible evil thing' routine is disgusting. Seriously, after reading through this thread, maybe it's not Iranians or Israelis who need to know about each other as badly as some Americans do...

[Behind the Aegis]

21. self-delete

[Vegasaurus]

6. Israel doesn't stone its women, hang gay people,

kidnap its citizens, or have them "starve" because killing people is more important than developing their society.

[subsuelo]

9. but they do bomb innocent civilians on a regular basis

including using cluster bombs on neighborhoods filled with innocent people.

[Vegasaurus]

11. only in response to terrorism

If the terrorism stopped and Israel continued using bombs, I would be first in line condemning them, and I mean that.

[subsuelo]

12. Terrorism is not a legitimate response to terrorism

[Vegasaurus]

19. We have different definitions of terrorism, it seems

Israelis are not strapping bombs on their children and sending them in to kill as many people as possible.

If the Palestinians stopped their terrorism, there would be NO RESPONSE>

Look at Jordan and Egypt.

There is a fragile peace, but no military action from Israel, ever, because Egypt and Jordan maintain their end of the agreement and do not terrorize Israelis.

If the Palestinians wanted to make peace, there would be no military reaction from the Israelis either.

It is only because they choose terrorism over peace that there lives are so miserable.

I don't know why you have so much trouble seeing that.

History and reality bears it out.

[notfullofit]

20. And now

Hamas and Fatah are terrorising each other.

[Violet_Crumble]

23. Newsflash: Palestinians aren't strapping bombs on their children either...

And the Palestinian people didn't choose terrorism over peace either. These almost daily posts from Veggie stereotyping and portraying the Palestinian population as terrorists pass by uncommented on by those who jump all over anyone who even comes close to uttering a stereotyping comment about Israelis. And that's totally hypocritical....

[LeftishBrit]

24. It's true about Jordan and Egypt...

but that involved peace negotiations and formal agreements. The same will have to be true with the Israelis and Palestinians.

While I agree that the terrorist attacks just bolster the Israeli hawks (as well as being simply wrong), I am uncomfortable about the statement that 'it is *only* because (Palestinians) choose terrorism over peace that their lives are so miserable'. Things are rarely that simple. Do you honestly think that if all Palestinians renounced terrorism overnight (which I think they should) their lives would immediately become wonderful?

The Occupation is harmful to Palestinians; and is not just a response to terrorism, though I agree that renunciation of terrorism will have to be part of any peace deal which ends the Occupation.

[Vegasaurus]

25. No, their lives wouldn't become wonderful

but at the moment, their lives are becoming exponentially more miserable.

Things are going in downhill, not up.

Renouncing terrorism would absolutely and definitely improve their lives.

Without ongoing terrorism, the wall and checkpoints would be removed. This would absolutely make the lives of the Palestinians better.

The ports could open, the airport, goods could be exported and imported.

Renouncing of terrorism would exponentially improve the lives of the Palestinians to the point that they would be "wonderful" in comparison to "awful", which is how they are now.

It seems like an easy choice for me.

However, the Palestinians religious and political leadership have made clear that peace is not the goal; prosperity and freedom are not the goals.

The goal is the annihilation of Israel and ongoing terrorism, and thus their lives are more miserable.


on edit: the ongoing settlement projects must stop too.

I don't agree with terrorism in response to the settlements (since there has been terrorism and violence towards Jews since before there was an occupation), but the settlements are a huge stumbling block to peace.

[Violet_Crumble]

7. You've missed the point again...

In fact, what you did was exactly the problem that the article was talking about. Why is it impossible to see Iranians as anything beyond the regime that rules them?

[LeftishBrit]

8. There is no doubt...

that Iran has a much more domestically right-wing and oppressive government than Israel.

Nonetheless, I think that the people of the countries have far more in common than is sometimes realized; and it's interesting that this is being brought up by these writers.