Soldier who fired in Naalin incident arrested

[Scurrilous]

Criminal investigation launched against soldier caught on tape firing towards bound Palestinian. Regarding late response to incident, military officials say that despite presence of officer at scene, investigation was launched only after tape was submitted

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3570784,00.html

<snip>

"The incident in which an IDF soldier fired rubber bullets at a bound Palestinian who had been arrested in Naalin reached the Investigating Military Police (IMP) only after the military advocate general watched the documentation of the incident, despite the fact that it was witnessed by an Armored Corps regiment commander and several other soldiers in the vicinity.

Military officials told Ynet that the firing soldier had been arrested. According to one source, "he was questioned a short while after the incident, but only today, after the military advocate general watched the video tape, a criminal investigation was launched."

<snip>

"In the incriminating video, the soldier can be seen aiming his weapon from a distance of about 1.5 meters from the bound demonstrator, and firing rubber bullets towards the ground near his feet. According to the testimony given by the detainee, Ashraf Abu-Rahma, his big toe was injured in the shooting and he received medical treatment from a military medic, after which he was released by the soldiers.

"During the demonstration the soldiers caught me, arrested me – and after a few moments I heard shots and felt a fire in my body. I was afraid and didn't know what it was," Abu-Rahma said. The shots were fired while the officer was holding the Palestinian's arm."

<snip>

"Left-wing representatives active in the Naalin protests responded to the publication of the tape by saying that this was not a rare incident. "The incident you have witnessed is not at all rare; it appears rare because it was filmed, but during protests we are forced to deal with this kind of behavior on a daily basis," said Aahad Khawaja, chairman of Naalin's anti-fence committee."

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. OMG I saw footage of that on Al Jazeera. Positively horrific. nt

[notfullofit]

7. Don't you think

'Positively horrific' is a little over the top?


An army statement said a military doctor who examined him found he had been "very slightly wounded with swelling to a toe on his right foot".

[ProgressiveMuslim]

9. Watch the video and then get back to me. Whenever a rifle is pointed at someone 2 feet away

and the trigger is pulled, I consider that pretty fucking horrific.

Espcially when the man is blindfolded and gagged.

Yup... I think "horrific" is the perfect adjective.

[Vegasaurus]

10. People were celebrating a terrorist who smashed a baby's head and killed him

Now THAT is horrific.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

12. Wrong thread. This thread is about the IDF's crimes against humanity. nt

[Vegasaurus]

13. The Islamic terrorists have wreaked crimes against humanity across the globe

let's be clear about those.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

17. Plenty of heinous crimes committed by all, aren't there? nt

[azurnoir]

22. So in your mind

this justifies the close range shooting of a bound suspect at least if the suspect is Islamic, does this apply only in Israel or anywhere?

If you want to be clear about how Islamic terrorists commit atrocities worldwide start your own thread or journal

[notfullofit]

16. I watched the video

and I'm sure the poor guy was terrified. There is no excuse for scaring him like that, the soldier should be will be punished for it.
However we all know now it looked much worse than it actually was, just a sore toe.

Now this is what I call truly horrific....

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1215331032586&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

[ProgressiveMuslim]

18. I would agree completely. It's disgraceful to watch democratically elected gov't commit atrocious

crimes. We differ, because unlike you, I include Israel among those gov'ts.

I would include this -- actions which are the official policy of the gov't of Israel -- a heinous crime:



http://imeu.net/news/article0013659.shtml

Two sick children die on Thursday due to the ongoing Israeli siege on Gaza
IMEMC, Jul 18, 2008



This article was originally published by IMEMC and is republished with permission.

Palestinian medical sources in the Gaza Strip reported on Thursday evening that a 10-month old infant died at a local hospital in Gaza after Israel barred his family from transferring him to a hospital outside the Gaza Strip. Earlier n Thursday a 6-year old child died of kidney failure.

The sources stated that Waseem Hamdan, 10 months, needed urgent medical treatment out of the Gaza Strip as the ongoing Israeli siege emptied Gaza hospitals of the basic equipment and medications.

Earlier on Thursday a 6-year old child, identified as Imad Al Oweiny, died of kidney failure, at a local hospital in the Gaza Strip.

The Israeli siege on Gaza led to the death of more than 211 patients, including 46 children.

The Palestinian Ministry of Health in the Gaza Strip reported that although one month passed since achieving the truce deal, Israel did not implement its side of the side of the agreement which states that it should reopen the border crossing, especially the Rafah border terminal.

The ministry added that Israel not allow the patients to be moved to hospitals abroad to receive the needed treatement.

The ministry demanded international human rights groups to intervene and stop the Israeli violations which the ministry described as "organized annihilation practiced by Israel against 1.5 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip".

[Violet_Crumble]

23. It looked bad because it was bad!

'Just a sore toe'? So now suddenly we're supposed to judge the badness of something by the severity of injuries? After months of seeing thread after thread where Qassams that land in empty fields are treated as just as bad as those that ended up injuring a person??

What a shame that B'Tselem got this on video. Otherwise we could have dispensed with the 'it's just a sore toe' and gone straight to the 'Consider the source!' and 'More Palestinian propaganda!' responses...

Has anyone else noticed the habit of the same few posters in threads about mistreatment of Palestinians who never speak out against the mistreatment of Palestinians but head straight into trying to change the subject in a 'Yeah, but THIS is much worse!' sort of game? Someone needs to let those folk know that there's NO justification for the abuse of Palestinian or Israeli civilians and the 'their side is worse!!!' excuse is a lame one that's also used by extremists on both sides of the conflict to try to justify their own violence and hatred...

[Scurrilous]

2. Soldier filmed shooting bound Palestinian: Commander told me 'shoot him'

<snip>

"The Israel Defense Forces soldier who was filmed shooting a bound and blindfolded Palestinian with a rubber bullet at point blank range told military investigators on Monday that his regiment commander had ordered him to fire.

The incident was caught on camera by a villager and released Sunday by the human rights group B'Tselem. The footage apparently shows a soldier firing his rifle toward a Palestinian detained at the protest in the West Bank village of Na'alin. The rifle appeared to have been modified to fire rubber-coated metal bullets.

During his questioning, the soldier said that his commander, lieutenant colonel Omri, had told him "shoot him" three times. He then fired his rifle at the protester's foot.

Defense Minister Ehud Barak on Monday condemnded the incident.

"The Israeli military will investigate the incident, learn its lessons and hold those responsible to account," Barak said in televised remarks to legislators in his Labour Party. "Warriors do not behave like this."

The soldier was arrested Sunday, but the defense asked for his release saying he did not pose a danger to anyone."

more

[Vegasaurus]

3. The difference is

"The Israeli military will investigate the incident, learn its lessons and hold those responsible to account,"

Terrorists are not investigated or held responsible for their actions.

Instead, their parents are heralded and paid sums of money, and parades are held in celebration of their martyrdom.

[azurnoir]

4. So if he had not been

"caught on tape" would there be an investigation?

[Sezu]

5. Since other soldiers have been investigated and SENTENCED

without a video tape I'd say, yeah. Why wouldn't YOU?

[azurnoir]

6. On the word o a Palestinian victim alone?

come up with few, they're out there and I am sure you'll have help, however I was speaking of specifically this incident.

[leftynyc]

8. You mean they're not

throwing him a parade?!!! Not making a holiday?!! How shameful.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. The arrest of a "rogue" soldier hardly minimizes Israel's moral crimes.

IMO, a truly moral nation wouldn't be in the 41st year of a brutal military occupation.

[Vegasaurus]

14. No nation should have to live with constant terrorism

Nations have a moral right to protect their citizens.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. But they should have to live under constant military occupation?

Why are Jewish subject to a different set of "shoulds" than Palestinians?

[Vegasaurus]

28. They aren't

But pass on the news to the Palestinians that they could have had a state dozens of times.

All the need to do is stop killing Israelis and express a desire to live side by side.

Instead they want to kill Israelis and take over all of Israel.

It isn't happening, so their lives are more miserable than Israelis.

That could change, but isn't likely with hardliners and terrorists running the government.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. Utter nonsense. There were decades spent without killing Israelis and there was no state.

As soon as there is a lull, the Israeli gov't has a habit of assassinating someone, or committing some other provocation to stir things up.

[eyl]

34. Oh really?

In what decade wasn't there killing of Israelis?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

36. How would you describe the first 2 decades of occupation?

Stop trying to blame Israel's murderous occupation on "bad behavior" of the occupied. That's garbage.

[Vegasaurus]

37. Tons of "bad behavior" and terrorism and murder

in the years before occupation.

Which is why "The Occupation" has nothing to do with arab and Palestinians terrorism.

It isn't the cause.

They have been terrorizing Jews for a hundred years already, long before Israel, long before any occupation.

Let's cut the shit.

[eyl]

38. Ah..

So the PLO's inaugural attack on Israel's National Water Carrier (which supplies water to much of the country) in 1964 was in response to the occupation....which began in 1967?

[Vegasaurus]

35. That's funny (not really)

This is a list of only the terrorism BEFORE the occupation (that you always claim is the root of the Palestinians' problems, but we know better).

Not only is there not a DECADE without violence and terrorism, there was hardly even a year that Palestinians could go without murdering and terrorizing Israelis.

Jan 1, 1952 - Seven armed gunmen attacked and killed a nineteen year-old girl in her home, in the neighborhood of Beit Yisrael, in Jerusalem. The Mixed Armistice on investigation found that the case against Jordanian infiltrators could not be substantiated.
December 31 1951/ Jan 1 1952 a rape murder occurred. The MAC investigating officer, Major Loreaux, reported that the body of the girl had been found hidden in a cave about a mile from the Jordan border, the girl had been raped and murdered her face had been mutilated. Nothing, however, had been found to indicate that Jordanians had committed this atrocity. The case had not been discussed by the Commission. Major Loreaux expressed the opinion that the Israeli police would have a better chance of finding the killer than the Arabs would.<4>
The incident was used as pretext for the Israeli “reprisal raid” at Beit Jalla on January 6, 1952
Apr 14, 1953 - Terrorists tried for the first time to infiltrate Israel by sea, but were unsuccessful. One of the boats was intercepted and the other boat escaped.
June 7, 1953 - A youngster was killed and three others were wounded, in a shooting attacks on residential areas in southern Jerusalem.
June 9, 1953 - Terrorists attacked a farming community near Lod, and killed one of the residents. The terrorists threw hand grenades and sprayed gunfire in all directions. On the same night, another group of terrorists attacked a house in the town of Hadera. This occurred a day after Israel and Jordan signed an agreement, with UN mediation, in which Jordan undertook to prevent terrorists from crossing into Israel from Jordanian territory.
June 10, 1953 - Terrorists infiltrating from Jordan destroyed a house in the farming village of Mishmar Ayalon.
June 11, 1953 - Terrorists attacked a young couple in their home in Kfar Hess, and shot them to death.
Sept 2, 1953 - Terrorists infiltrated from Jordan, and reached the neighborhood of Katamon, in the heart of Jerusalem. They threw hand grenades in all directions. No one was hurt.
Mar 17, 1954 - Alleged terrorists ambushed a bus traveling from Eilat to Tel Aviv, and opened fire at short range when the bus reached the area of Ma'ale Akrabim (Scorpion Pass) in the northern Negev. In the initial ambush, the alleged terrorists killed the driver and wounded most of the passengers. The alleged terrorists then boarded the bus, and shot each passenger, one by one. Eleven passengers were murdered. Survivors recounted how the murderers spat on the bodies and abused them. The massacre was apparently reprisal raid conducted by members of a Bedouin tribe expelled from the al-Auja region of the Sinai three and a half years earlier.<5><6><7>
Jan 2, 1955 - Terrorists attacked and killed 2 hikers in the Judean Desert.
Mar 24, 1955 - Gunmen threw hand grenades and opened fire on a crowd at a wedding in the farming community of Patish, in the Negev. A young woman was killed, and eighteen people were wounded in the attack.
Apr 7, 1956 - A resident of Ashkelon was killed in her home, when terrorists threw three hand grenades into her house. Two members of kibbutz Givat Haim were killed, when terrorists opened fire on their car, on the road from Plugot Junction to Mishmar HaNegev. There were further hand grenade and shooting attacks on homes and cars, in areas such as Nitzanim and Ketziot. One person was killed and three others wounded.
Apr 11, 1956 - Gunmen opened fire on a synagogue full of children and teenagers, in the farming community of Shafrir. Three children and a youth worker were killed on the spot, and five were wounded, including three seriously.
Apr 29, 1956 - Egyptians killed Roi Rotenberg, 21 years of age, from Nahal Oz.
Sept 12, 1956 - Terrorists killed three Druze guards at Ein Ofarim, in the Arabah region.
Sept 23, 1956 - Gunmen opened fire from a Jordanian position, and killed four archaeologists, and wounded sixteen others, near kibbutz Ramat Rachel.
Sept 24, 1956 - Terrorists killed a girl in the fields of the farming community of Aminadav, near Jerusalem.
Oct 4, 1956 - Five Israeli workers were killed in Sdom.
Oct 9, 1956 - Two workers were killed in an orchard of the youth village, Neve Hadassah, in the Sharon region.
Suez Crisis, October 1956-March 1957
Main article: Suez Crisis
Nov 8, 1956 - Gunmen opened fire on a train, attacked cars and blew up wells, in the North and Center of Israel. Six Israelis were wounded.
Feb 18, 1957 - Two civilians were killed by landmines, next to Nir Yitzhak, on the southern border of the Gaza Strip.
Mar 8, 1957 - A shepherd from kibbutz Beit Guvrin was killed by terrorists in a field near the kibbutz.
Border conflict, 1957-1967
Apr 16, 1957 - Terrorists infiltrated from Jordan, and killed two guards at Kibbutz Mesilot.
May 20, 1957 - A gunman opened fire on a truck in the Arava region, killing a worker.
May 29, 1957 - A tractor driver was killed and two others wounded, when the vehicle struck a landmine, next to kibbutz Kissufim.
June 23, 1957 - Israelis were wounded by landmines, close to the Gaza Strip.
Aug 23, 1957 - Two guards of the Israeli Mekorot water company were killed near Kibbutz Beit Govrin.
Dec 21, 1957 - A member of kibbutz Gadot was killed in the Kibbutz fields.
Feb 11, 1958 - Terrorists killed a resident of moshav Yanov who was on his way to Kfar Yona, in the Sharon area.
Apr 5, 1958 - Terrorists lying in an ambush shot and killed two people near Tel Lakhish.
Apr 22, 1958 - Jordanian soldiers shot and killed two fishermen near Aqaba.
May 26, 1958 - Four Israeli police officers were killed in a Jordanian attack on Mount Scopus, in Jerusalem.
At 1654 Local time Lieutenant-Colonel Flint of the Mixed Armistice Commission was killed apparently by a single sniper round while trying to evacuate the dead and wounded Israelis from an Israeli police patrol. The Israeli police patrol was on a disputed route past the Issawiya village in the Jordanian controled area of Mount Scopus.<8>
Nov 17, 1958 - Syrian terrorists killed the wife of the British air attaché in Israel, who was staying at the guesthouse of the Italian Convent on the Mt. of the Beatitudes.
Dec 3, 1958- A shepherd was killed at Kibbutz Gonen. In the artillery attack that followed, 31 civilians were wounded.
Jan 23, 1959 - A shepherd from Kibbutz Lehavot HaBashan was killed.
Feb 1, 1959 - Three civilians were killed by a terrorist landmine near Moshav Zavdiel.
Apr 15, 1959 - A guard was killed at kibbutz Ramat Rachel.
Apr 27, 1959 - Two hikers were shot at close range and killed near Massada.
Oct 3, 1959 - A shepherd from kibbutz Heftziba was killed near kibbutz Yad Hana.
Apr 26, 1960 - Terrorists killed a resident of Ashkelon south of the city.
Apr 12, 1962 - Terrorists fired on an Egged bus on the way to Eilat; one passenger was wounded.
Sept 30, 1962 - Two terrorists attacked an Egged bus on the way to Eilat. No one was wounded.
Jan 1, 1965 - Palestinian militants attempted to bomb the National Water Carrier. This was the first attack carried out by the PLO's Fatah faction.
May 31, 1965 - Jordanian Legionnaires fired on the neighborhood of Musrara in Jerusalem, killing two civilians and wounding four.
June 1, 1965 - Terrorists attack a house in Kibbutz Yiftah.
July 5, 1965 - A Fatah cell planted explosives at Mitzpe Massua, near Beit Guvrin; and on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem near Kafr Battir.
Aug 26, 1965 - A waterline was sabotaged at kibbutz Manara, in the Upper Galilee.
Sept 29, 1965 - A terrorist was killed as he attempted to attack Moshav Amatzia.
Nov 7, 1965 - A Fatah cell that infiltrated from Jordan blew up a house in Moshav Givat Yeshayahu, south of Beit Shemesh. The house was destroyed, but the inhabitants were unhurt.
Apr 25, 1966 - Explosions placed by terrorists wounded two civilians and damaged three houses in moshav Beit Yosef, in the Beit She'an Valley.
May 16, 1966 - Two Israelis were killed when their jeep hit a terrorist landmine, north of the Sea of Galilee and south of Almagor. Tracks led into Syria.
July 14, 1966 - Terrorists attacked a house in Kfar Yuval, in the North.
July 19, 1966 - Terrorists infiltrated into Moshav Margaliot on the northern border and planted nine explosive charges.
Oct 27, 1966 - A civilian was wounded by an explosive charge on the railroad tracks to Jerusalem.

[notfullofit]

39. That's one hell of a long list you have there. nt

[Vegasaurus]

40. That's only BEFORE the occupation

(which is supposedly the source of the Palestinians' anger).

There is ten times this much AFTER the occupation.

Oh, and there is lots of evidence of violence even before Israel was a state.

So, there is a 100+ year history of Arab/Palestinian violence towards Jews which predates the state of Israel, and predates the "occupation".

There goes that argument.

[Violet_Crumble]

43. Consider the source! n/t

[eyl]

44. A wikipedia page?

Most of those (certainly the major ones) can be easily confirmed

[Violet_Crumble]

45. Actually, I was quoting something notfullofit said in a recent thread...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=218033#218127

Yet here he is in this thread swallowing without question a copy and paste from Veggie that wasn't accompanied by a link to where it came from. Apparently 'considering the source' only matters when it's something some folk don't agree with...

[Violet_Crumble]

27. How is terrorising a Palestinian in any way protecting Israel's citizens? n/t

[cali]

15. There is no such thing as a "truly moral nation".

period. There never has been and there never will be.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

19. True. Let's just say a moral nation, then.

[Shaktimaan]

21. I don't know about that.

But just for the record, do you have an example of a nation that you consider "moral" according to these standards?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

30. Are there any nations that haven't been engaged in 40+ year violent military occupations

of indigenous people?

Sure. My main point however, is to dispute the notion that many pro-Israeli posters have that Israel is somehow more "moral" than its neighbors. I think that's hogwash.

*I* am not commanding Israel to be more moral. I am simply pointing out that it is not, if only by virture of its murderous military occupation. I won't even touch on the topic of the widespread segreation and lack of equal rights within the wondrous Middle East democracy.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

33. And to see just how truly "moral" Israel is,

be sure to read this OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x218789

[Violet_Crumble]

32. Andorra is a very moral country!

It's a tax haven and there's no duty on anything, which means yr Euro stretches so much further! Thank you, Andorra!!

[LeftishBrit]

41. But can you name a single nation that IS truly moral?

Nations, as organizations, are generally self-interested.

I do strongly believe that the occupation needs to end.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Hey, maybe this bunch will! Then again he didn't kill a Palestinian, so to them he'd be a failure..

Kahane supporters praise Gaza killings as 'holy'

Supporters of assassinated rabbi Meir Kahane hold ceremony to commemorate killed rabbi, say 'holy canon' fired shells at family in Beit Hanoun in which 18 Palestinians died on Wednesday

<snip>

Right-wing activist Baruch Marzel spoke of the killings in Beit Hanun: "After so many cannons, we see today that one cannon managed to hit, the holly cannon, and all rush to apologize."


He continued: "If you would have listened to rabbi Kahane this wouldn't have happened to you, leave!"

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-3326400,00.html

[leftynyc]

25. Yawn

Even Charles Manson had his followers so I'm not sure of your point. Do let me know when the government of Israel honors him or throws him a parade. Then it will mean something.

[Violet_Crumble]

26. Maybe you'd like to try to explain what yr point was?

Well, apart from trying to divert attention away from a case of a Palestinian being mistreated?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

31. I am curious: Do settlers receive gov't subsidies to live in settlements? nt

[pelsar]

42. not in general

they buy their homes like everyone else...though its cheaper out there......as opposed to Tel Aviv. I'm sure there are some laws that have been passed that are work arounds to give them cheaper stuff, but that would be indirect....