IDF commander suspended after failing polygraph on West Bank shooting

[bemildred]

The most moral army in the World. A Lt. Colonel no less ...

The Israel Defense Forces temporarily suspended an officer over allegations he ordered a soldier to fire a rubber bullet at point-blank range at a bound and blindfolded Palestinian, an IDF spokesman said on Tuesday.

The spokesman said Lieutenant Colonel Omri Bruberg had been suspended for 10 days until military prosecutors decide whether there is enough evidence to indict him.

The suspension order came a day after Bruberg failed his second polygraph test, after having passed the first test which was conducted in a private institute last week. The results of Monday's lie-detector test, held under the auspices of the military police, prove that Lieutenant colonel Omri Bruberg, commanding officer of IDF regiment 71, lied in his testimony, and suggest he did in fact give order to open fire at the Palestinian detainee.

The investigation began after the soldier, who was filmed shooting a Palestinian protester during a demonstration in the West Bank village of Na'alin, said he was just carrying out an order by Bruberg.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1006610.html

[Phx_Dem]

1. Polygraph testing does not prove or disprove a thing. nt

[bemildred]

2. It wasn't me that ordered the polygraph test.

But if you are going to order one, you have to at least pretend that the results means something.

[shira]

3. another possible pallywood production

Expert Says Film Was Edited
Yonatan D. HaLevy, an expert on Arab affairs and an IDF Lt.-Col. in the reserves, says the video leaves much to be explained. For one thing, he told Arutz-7's Uzi Baruch, "For one thing, the film shows the soldier firing to the left of the detained man, and certainly not at his feet. Why don't they show the boot that would certainly have been damaged had he been shot in the foot? In addition, the military doctor said he had a small injury on the bottom of his right foot - while the injured man said he was hurt in the toe of his left foot."

"Finally," HaLevi said, "even though he was surprised by the shooting, as can be expected from one who is blindfolded, the Arab did not fall down right away from the supposed injuries to his foot, but rather remained standing on two feet, and actually leaning on his supposedly-injured left foot. The film is then cut, apparently on purpose, and we don't see how he ended up lying down on the ground."

"I must emphasize," HaLevy concluded: "There is no filmed proof that the man was shot in his foot."

The soldier was arrested on Sunday and "he was questioned a short while after the incident, but only today, after the military advocate-general watched the video tape, a criminal investigation was launched," a military official said.

The IDF is investigating the tape's authenticity and the accuracy of Abu-Rahma’s allegations prior to his arrest by the soldier. In the past, many such videotapes have been shown to the press and have created international condemnation and public outcry among left-wingers, only to be later revealed as fakes. The most infamous of these tapes is that of the Mohammed Al-Dura incident, which purports to show a 12-year-old boy being shot and killed in his father’s arms by Israeli gunfire. Drawing the wrath of the international community, the tape immediately prompted IDF officials to take responsibility and apologize for the shooting. Only later was the tape concluded to be a fabrication, but to this day it remains the symbol of Israel’s cruelty to Arabs.



http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/126904

Of course, this is Arutz Sheva (rightwing) but Yonatan HaLevy is a credible source. Pretty amazing that if this is yet more Pallywood, it's now B'tselem about to fall into the same muck and mire as HRW and AI with regard to the al-Dura hoax.

[bemildred]

4. The film is then cut, apparently on purpose, and we don't see ..."

Are films cut accidentally or fortuitously all the time, or does he add that little bit to suggest some ulterior motive, where in fact he knows of none? I point this out to show that he is not an objective reporter, he has an agenda to discredit the film, and he is using innuendo to fill in for his weakness in facts.

[shira]

6. why would the film be cut at all?

What possible reason could exist for editing (cutting) the film of a Palestinian girl taping this incident? Let's see it all. Right?

The problem with the al-Dura footage was that the minute of film we've all seen was also cut from about 27 minutes of actual film that revealed the hoax.

[bemildred]

7. I don't give a shit about the al Dura film.

It is a minor issue, one killing among thousands, only alive as an issue today for it's propaganda value to one side or another. I'm just pointing out that the reporter you recommend is a propagandist too.

[shira]

9. how revealing

I would think that major news corporations that willingly assist in deliberately libeling Israel and therefore help provide a reason for senseless death and suffering (al-Dura is THE icon of the 2nd intifada) would be a major cause for concern among fellow progressives.

Silly me.

What makes you think al-Dura is the only case of this happening? So far it's the first to be proven. Jenin, Qana, Gaza beach, Gaza blackout hoax, etc... are more examples of the media somehow being duped over and over again with propaganda against Israel. The media is ignoring the findings of the French court as if they're hoping this just goes away rather than correcting the problem.

So am I to understand you also "wouldn't give a shit" if the media was this reckless against Palestinians and assisted the zionist occupationist entity by spreading libels against their arab enemies and tried covering it up? I'd imagine you would definitely give a shit about that.

[bemildred]

10. I expect major news organizations to lie and distort, frequently, all of them.

I suppose that's where we differ. If that is what is "revealed" to you, then you have it right.

[shira]

12. me too....

I expect the lies and distortions also. So we agree.

Where we differ, I suspect, is that you accept it. And from what I've read here from you - you accept the media's politically iased "narrative" of Israel/Palestine despite the lies and distortions. Al-Dura is just a sample of the narrative that the mainstream media would have us believe.

[bemildred]

13. Accept what?

Is skepticism now to be equated with belief? I expect them to lie but I believe what they say? Do you care about making any sort of sense at all?

[shira]

15. try to understand

You said you don't give a shit, Israel kills hundreds of al-Duras. You buy the al-Dura "narrative" even though that particular story is untrue. You buy into the media's portrayal of Israel as nasty big bully aggressor and Palestinians as defenseless and desperate victims.

This is why you don't give a shit about al-Dura. Generally speaking, you buy into the narrative that the media, UN, NGO's want you to believe.

If I'm wrong, explain please.

[bemildred]

16. You first.

You have mis-stated my words, put words in my mouth, and then distorted your fictions. There is little point in me trying to understand your response to my words, if they are not my words but your own. You can just pursue your own hermetically sealed dialog with yourself, with me as a sort of stick figure in it. Very satisfying for you, no doubt, but not requiring me to do much, either.

[shira]

17. oh well....

I asked you to explain to me where I'm wrong. Guess I don't rate for that explanation.

[bemildred]

18. "You have mis-stated my words, put words in my mouth, and then distorted your fictions. "

Does that help?

[shira]

20. nope,,doesn't help

n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

21. Can you get PMW to translate it for Shra?

Like, that should really help! ;)

[bemildred]

22. I probably need more "facts".

Sometimes a smiley is just so right:

:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[Scurrilous]

19. LOL

:thumbsup:

[Sezu]

23. Yes it is interesting that someone would not give a shit about

a faux event whick has resulted in so much revenge death and its results.

[bemildred]

25. Please go to post #18 and continue there. nt

[azurnoir]

8. As far as possible reason

could it be as simple as time, how long was the girl filming prior to the shooting? HaLevy is not very specific about the edit, only tantalizing says there is one-

However there is a problem with "discrediting" the entire incident-the actual soldier who shot the guy already admitted he did it

Soldier accused of shooting at bound Palestinian says CO ordered fire

The IDF soldier captured on video while firing a rubber-coated bullet at a bound Palestinian detainee in a rally near the town of Naalin, near the West Bank city of Ramallah, told the Military Police he fired after being given a direct order by his commanding officer.

The Military Defense Counsel filed a motion for the soldier's release with the Military Advocate General's Operations' Division; citing there is no reason to have him remanded.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3570962,00.html


But isn't it "auspicious" that you should post this today Ms Shira

Originally it was said that IDF shot the boy but apparently it was border police

Report: Palestinian boy shot dead by IDF

Palestinians claim 11-year old boy was sitting with friends under olive tree when soldier shot him in head during dispersal of anti-fence riot near Naalin, but initial army probe into report disputes Palestinian account

Palestinian sources reported on Tuesday afternoon that an 11-year-old Palestinian boy was shot and killed by IDF or Border Police troops engaged in dispersing a protest near the separation fence by the village of Naalin, located west of Ramallah.

Committee member Ibrahim Khawaja told Ynet that the children who were with Moussa said that they were sitting near the site where the fence is being constructed when a military vehicle suddenly arrived, apparently belonging to the Border Police. They said a trooper exited the jeep, aimed his rifle towards the group and hit Moussa in the head. Khawaja said the boy was killed and later evacuated to the Ramallah Hospital.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3574986,00.html

But do go on with it please your attempt to smear several major Human Rights organization speak for them self

[shira]

11. thank you for proving my point

You should make a new post for this incident. Let's see after the dust settles whether we should trust the sources. Unlike yourself, I've seen enough to make me doubt the initial account.

You may assume Palestinian sources are 100% accurate about a boy sitting under a tree and shot for no reason by an Israeli soldier. I'm betting things aren't as clear cut as you'd perhaps "like" them to be. If in fact this is another false report, the question becomes how many more times must this happen until you cast a more critical eye and not assume Palestinians are just innocent passivists while Israelis are immoral monsters?

[azurnoir]

14. And yet more wild eyed claims

I pointed out one inconsistency, I am sure others will surface. BTW the story has been posted and unlike "others" I see no need to run two or more threads on the same story, especially on the day it is first reported.

[LeftishBrit]

5. You are right on that.

It may be suggestive, but not proof. People may fail a polygraph out of nervousness at the situation, not because they're lying.

[Sezu]

24. Polygraphs are junk science. Many innocent have failed them

and many guilty, such as Ted Bundy have passed them.

[LeftishBrit]

26. A real psychopath is quite likely to pass such a test, as they can lie without emotion.

[bemildred]

27. IDF launches new probe of officer who ordered bound Palestinian shot

An Israel Defense Forces officer who was caught on camera detaining a bound Palestinian while one of his soldiers shot him with a rubber bullet at point blank range is also alleged to have kicked a Palestinian demonstrator two weeks ago, according to a complaint filed on Tuesday by the human rights group B'Tselem.

The commander of the 71st battalion in the Armored Corps, Lieutenant Colonel Omri Bruberg, is under investigation for the second time, this time for allegedly kicking a Palestinian protester and subsequently stepping on his hands.

---

The results of Monday's lie-detector test, held under the auspices of the military police, prove that Bruberg lied in his testimony, and suggest he did in fact give order to open fire at the Palestinian detainee.

The investigation began after the soldier, who was filmed shooting a Palestinian protester during a demonstration in the West Bank village of Na'alin, said he was just carrying out an order by Bruberg.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1006610.html

I can sympathize with Lt. Col Bruberg, I would bet he is a very frustrated fellow, with impossible demands placed on him. And it is true that kicking and stepping on hands does not rise to the level of war crimes. But he cannot allow the demonstrations to succeed either, it's his job, somehow, to make them go away, without seeming to be repressing dissent or suppressing free speech, or not looking like an enlightened representative of "Western Democracy" and all that. So he has to find a way to repress without looking repressive.