Why Israel won't survive

[ProgressiveMuslim]

Ali Abunimah

(snip)

Israel's real goals were to restore its "deterrence" fatally damaged after its 2006 defeat in Lebanon (translation: its ability to massacre and terrorize entire populations into submission) and to destroy any Palestinian resistance to total Israeli-Jewish control over historic Palestine from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

With Hamas and other resistance factions removed or fatally weakened, Israel hoped the way would be clear to sign a "peace" deal with chief Palestinian collaborator Mahmoud Abbas to manage Palestinians on Israel's behalf until they could be forced out once and for all.

The US-backed "moderate" dictatorships and absolute monarchies led by Egypt and Saudi Arabia supported the Israeli plan hoping to demonstrate to their own people that resistance -- whether against Israel or their own bankrupt regimes -- was futile.

To win, Israel had to break Palestinian resistance. It failed. On the contrary, it galvanized and unified Palestinians like never before. All factions united and fought heroically for 23 days. According to well-informed and credible sources Israel did little harm to the modest but determined military capacity of the resistance. So instead Israel did what it does best: it massacred civilians in the hope that the population would turn against those fighting the occupier.

Israel not only unified the resistance factions in Gaza; its brutality rallied all Palestinians and Arabs.

It is often claimed that Arab regimes whip up anti-Israel anger to distract their populations from their own failings. Actually, Israel, the US and subservient Arab regimes tried everything -- especially demonizing Iran and inciting sectarian tensions between Sunni and Shia Muslims -- to distract their populations from Palestine.

All this failed as millions of people across the region marched in support of Palestinian resistance, and the Arab regimes who hoped to benefit from the slaughter in Gaza have been exposed as partners in the Israeli atrocities. In popular esteem, Hamas and other Palestinian resistance factions earned their place alongside Hizballah as effective bulwarks against Israeli and Western colonialism.

If there was ever a moment when the peoples of the region would accept Israel as a Zionist state in their midst, that has passed forever....

by all means, read on!
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10215.shtml

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. This piece merits a complete read, as the author articulates a vision for ending the occupation

and for a peaceful future.

[cali]

8. I gave it a complete read- long winded as the author is

the author does articulate a vision, but it's hardly anything new. It's his fantasy for the destruction of Israel. Old story, not well told.

[subsuelo]

20. This guy is really well informed. Thank you for posting

[ProgressiveProfessor]

2. Soon we will have posts from the Hal Turner Daily News...

This is clearly a very slanted site with a very slanted agenda. To cite it as relevant or as anything but laughable seems odd.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. First time you saw Electronic Intifadah? You really ARE a newbie!

Stick around. You might actually learn something.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

4. No, the first time I ever saw anyone take it seriously.

It a slanted Op-Ed source. Its position are often contrary to the rest of the universe. That is fine, but it should not be taken seriously as a purveyor of facts

[ProgressiveMuslim]

5. I'm sure you're as well-versed with EI as you are with ...

Oh well.

Did anyone claim this is not an opinion piece? Half of what is posted here is opinion.

You don't *have* to comment on everything, especially if you don't really have anything to add.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

6. I post opinion pieces here too, I just have the integrity to label them as such

Not claim they are a vision for a peaceful future.

To do a critique of what was written is trivial, but not worthwhile since just about anyone can see the smoke and mirrors there. Here is an easy one. Author claims "Israel not only unified the resistance factions in Gaza; its brutality rallied all Palestinians and Arabs." Multiple articles from credible sources point out the lack of unity among the Arab nations and the Palestinian community over the events in Gaza. Its like shooting fish in a barrel to shred this stuff from a factual perspective.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. Right. I posted a piece, with a note that I think it merits a complete read.

The part I posted was critical of Israel, and I noted that the piece went on to describe a way out.

It's clear you aren't familiar with EI, don't know who Abuminah is, and when that is pointed out, you come up with some phony nonsense about it being opinion.

You're digging your dumb-hole deeper and deeper, buddy.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

13. Then label them for what they are since they certainly are not journalism

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. I'll continue to post as many interesting Palestinian points of view as possible.

I consider it my special gift to this forum.

[azurnoir]

16. and anyone with enough reading comprehension

to read the article would not have realized it was an editorial?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

18. Weird, huh? 75% of what is posted here is editorial! Should Paletsinian POVs require special

permission or notice or something??

[azurnoir]

21. You know what they say the message

and the messenger

[subsuelo]

22. Ever notice the most insightful articles posted here

Always bring out the same old ineffective attacks?

[ave]

19. Taken seriously by

Former high level politicians, one of them a former Dutch Prime Minister who used to be in strong support of Israel while in office. He has this site among the links on his web site for more information regarding the Palestinian occupied territories. He has quite a different view regarding the situation of the Palestinian people then before. Maybe more informed.
It may be important to realize that the language of the Palestinians is Arabic which most in the West are not able to read. Many articles and documents, however, become available through web sites like these.

If the word ‘intifada’ is reason to call it slanted, I don’t think there is much wrong with the word ‘intifada’ (=resistance). This very website has the word ‘underground’ in its name. Very comparable to ‘intifadah’. During WWII, in Europe both words were used: ‘resistance’ was done ‘underground’. Now the movement as a whole is referred to as ‘the resistance’ or ‘the underground’.

If the web site is called slanted because it has the word ‘intifada’ in its name, that may tell about the possible one-sidedness of the speaker. Or else that the speaker prefers to be educated by people of his own group – or universe - instead of by those who are personally involved. Critical reading remains requested for all sources. The more sources, the more critical one can be.
One can always disagree with the article or opinion. But not on the basis of the presumed character of the website.

Another site for the Palestinian territories, which received funding from two European countries during their foundational period (hence maybe less ‘slanted’?), is Ma’an News Agency:
http://maannews.net/en/index.php

About us: “Launched in 2005, Ma'an News Agency (MNA) publishes news around the clock in Arabic and English, and is among the most browsed websites in the Palestinian territories, with over 3 million visits per month. Considered the main source of independent news from Palestine, MNA has become the first choice for online information for many Palestinians, and is also attracting a growing international readership and interest from prominent international news organizations and agencies.
…”

But of course there are many more.
De MSM of the Arabic world and many facts are just not ‘available’ to most of us, because we are not so smart to be able to read or understand Arabic. Unfortunately, because there seems to be wonderful poetry in the Arabic language. Also not available to Arabic language dummies like us.

[burythehatchet]

7. what's "progressive" about you, your insurance company?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

17. No, AAA.

I have no problem with persuasive articles. However, I am also a stickler for facts. Call me pendantic, but they matter. When obviously false statements are made it renders the entire piece flawed, and damages the side it supports. There is more than enough facts and data to build *valid* writings on. Why should we hurt ourselves with crap?

[pelsar]

9. guess the writer forgot to ask the Palestinians in the westbank...

On the contrary, it galvanized and unified Palestinians like never before

seems some of them weren't so "galvanized".....

[ProgressiveMuslim]

10. I'm sure that's your deepest hope, isn't it?

Congrats to your gov't for a job well done. I'm sure the people of Israrel are sleeping more soundly these days.

[pelsar]

25. it wasnt a comment on hope..it was a comment on a pathetic article...

an article based on facts with the authors viewpoint is one thing...it provides for what is known a 'thought provoking" information" and even has the ability to convince those who dont agree that there is more to the situation than ones own belief...

articles as in the above, which have far more fantasy than factual information may be good for convincing additional "useful idiots" to join in the fight, or for the cheerleading section, but they have little influence on those that make the decisions and in fact know the facts and base their decisions on those facts.....

[Vegasaurus]

12. Where were the 10,000 Iranian suicide bombers

or the 20,000 Hamas militants, ready to vanquish the enemy?

They all hid, like a bunch of cowards.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. Facts of are no consequence...if the source is one they like

[ave]

24. There may be a reason...

This article may point out why there were no demonstrations in the West Bank as there were elsewhere:

"Ramallah – Ma’an – More than 200 Palestinian political and civil society leaders and scholars signed a petition stating their position as with the Palestinian resistance and with the people of Gaza who are still under Israeli fire.

The document went further and rejected the actions of the Palestinian Authority in repressing the demonstrations against the Israeli actions in Gaza. The PA has stationed police and Special Forces at gathering sites around the West Bank every Friday since the Gaza invasion began.

Those who signed the document affirmed that it is not the acts of the Palestinian resistance that is hurting Gazan citizens, but rather the Israeli occupation and silence from all parties. The document condemned the strategy of blaming Israel’s victim for the crimes of the aggressor. …”

http://maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=35063

Oppression as apparently happens in Israel, may be a reason for voices not being heard clearly.
An Israeli professor made clear at some point during the Israeli war in Gaza, that already 700 people had been arrested for protesting against the war in Gaza. And were put in jail.
It is a way to try to suggest there are no voices against the war, it does not mean they do not exist.
For me it is one more reason to doubt the so much self-praised democratic standards of the State of Israel.
It rather makes me think of a country with authoritarian characteristics. Also towards their own people with a different view and voice regarding the occupied.

[subsuelo]

23. Abuminah always reflects very well the pulse of the region.

We would be unwise to dismiss his writing as fantasy or propaganda

[ProgressiveMuslim]

26. He absolutely represents a valid POV.

Mine! LOL!

[Kurska]

27. Any advice given to a nation that comes form someone who wishes to see it destroyed is rather nill

Why do you alway seem to be saying what israel "Should do" if you just openly expressed your belief it should be destroyed?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

29. Wow! Equality for all equals Israel's destruction?

I don't see how dismantling apartheid is a bad thing.

How can any Jewish Israeli really relish a Jewish state if it requires the oppression of millions?

I just don't get it. That would ruin it for me.

[Kurska]

30. I'm not going to go into how israel Is not a apartheid state, we'll never see eye to eye on that

But you seemed to have advocated very clearly there a desire to see the removal of the state of israel from among the nations of the world. I just don't get why after such a statement you'd continue to comment on what the state you say shouldn't exist should do? You don't want to see it on the map, why would anyone who does view your opinion as informative?

[Vegasaurus]

31. These types of posters really tow the Hamas line

and want to see the end of Israel as a Jewish state.

They think Israel is "racist" and all.

It would be funny if there weren't 22 Muslim nations that kicked out nearly every Jew, and don't allow them to visit even.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

33. Utter nonsense!

I don't equate giving all who live under Israel's dominion equal rights with destroying Israel.

I find it utterly sad that you believe Israel can only exist if there is a privileged Jewish majority.

[Vegasaurus]

32. No need for oppression

but terrorism and aid don't an economy make,

Time for the Palestinians to try something new.

Even Al Jazeera agrees.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

34. Even though he makes up his facts...

[Behind the Aegis]

28. Or so are the hopes of many....