Archbishop Tutu labelled 'anti-Semitic' by ADL for critique of Israeli policy

[Purveyor]

Michigan State University in the U.S. has come under fire from the Anti-Defamation League for inviting South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu to speak at this year's commencement ceremony. Tutu is reknowned worldwide for his role in creating the Truth and Reconciliation Commission which helped bring about a peaceful transition from apartheid South Africa to desegregation.

He was invited to be part of a human rights delegation by the United Nations Special Rapporteur on Human Rights after a 2004 Israeli missile attack which killed an entire Palestinian family. But Israel denied him a visa, and the investigation of the attack was delayed for over three years, rendering it useless. Tutu has compared the treatment of Palestinians under Israeli occupation to the treatment of black South Africans under apartheid.

The ADL launched a similar challenge to the University of St Thomas in Minnesota when it invited Tutu to speak at their commencement in 2007. After pressure from the ADL, the University withdrew the invitation but later re-invited him a week before the ceremony (he was unable to attend). The University President Rev. Dennis Dease told an AP reporter at the time, "I have wrestled with what is the right thing to do in this situation, and I have concluded that I made the wrong decision earlier this year not to invite the archbishop. Although well intentioned, I did not have all of the facts and points of view, but now I do."

The President of Michigan State University, Lou Anna Simon, said that she would uphold the invitation to Desmond Tutu, despite the pressure from the ADL.

The ADL said that Tutu was anti-Semitic because of his support for a boycott of Israeli academic institutions. The group said the boycott was "based on ideas that are anti-Semitic and should be anathema to any institution of higher learning truly committed to academic freedom."

MORE...

http://www.imemc.org/article/60034

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. Is Abe Foxman on meth?

Desmond Tutu, Jew hater? I think not. :eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

75. Is the Pope a Nazi?

(Maybe.)

[Donald Ian Rankin]

2. The only possible explanation is that the ADL uses "anti-semitic" to mean "anti-Israel"

Which doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

[damntexdem]

5. No, anti-Zionist or even anti-Israeli-policy.

Those who are pro-Israel can still be labeled "antisemitic" for opposing Zionist ideology or specific Israeli policies.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

7. ...or anti-oppression of Palestinians...

Sometimes when a leading moral figure calls it like he sees it, it's time to look in the mirror...

[bemildred]

18. Oh yeah, and I left out Foxman in that other thread.

One of these days we're going to find out from Foxman that Barney the Purple Dinosaur is anti-semitic propaganda.

[LeftishBrit]

3. Just one point here..

HAS Desmond Tutu called for an academic/cultural boycott of Israel? I was not aware of this, and would have thought it would have had greater publicity among the pro-boycott people.

I know he has been critical of many Israeli policies (and of Hamas), and that he has at times advocated divestment from Israel. But that is rather different from an academic boycott.

Not saying he necessarily hasn't; just trying to check the facts.

FTR, it seems way OTT to try to stop someone like him from giving a commencement ceremony.

[Grimm]

6. Tutu is on the advisory board of USACBI

USACBI = U.S. Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel

At least according to the ADL. The exchange of letters between Foxman and MSU are here: http://www.adl.org/israel/Letter_Michigan_University.asp

Also, I was hoping this original story was a joke, but sadly it isn't. ADL released a press release to go with this (can't find it on their website anymore, but Google Cache found it): http://tinyurl.com/cbk5g3

My opinion is the same as it ever was when it comes to Foxman - he's a partisan, political hack and tool that abuses his position for political purposes. I don't mind the ADL taking a stance on Israeli issues, but his inability to separate Israel from Judaism is to the detriment of American Jewry - which should be his #1 concern. If anyone remembers his shameful actions in setting a policy to deny the Armenian genocide and sacking ADL members who confirmed the genocide and his pathetic defence of "If we didn't, then Turkey would attack their local Jewish community," then this current outburst should be no surprise.

Kudos to the MSU president for handling the ADL with class, logic and grace.

[LeftishBrit]

33. Thanks

Well, I disagree with him on this as I am against an academic/cultural boycott of Israel. However, what gets me most about many pro-boycotters is that they single Israel out and do not make the same fuss about the actions of other countries, including their own countries and allies. This is not true of Tutu who has condemned actions of many countries, including his own (e.g. HIV denial and homophobia in South Africa and neighbouring countries); Mugabe's actions in Zimbabwe; Darfur; the USA and Britain over the war in Iraq; etc.

[damntexdem]

4. It's a standard response to those who criticize Israeli policy.

Even Jews are so attacked -- they're called "self-hating Jews."

That such practices make it harder to fight against actual antisemitism is of no concern to groups like the Pro Defamation League -- oops, ADL.

[Alamuti Lotus]

8. At this point, that has become something like a badge to earn

such a fucked out 'insult' from the wolves who cry 'wolf'.

[IndianaGreen]

9. The ADL has become as idiotic and racist as Ahmadinejad

What a pathetic outfit it has become under Abe Foxman.

[Ken Burch]

27. We should just call it the Defamation League

They long ago stopped being against bigotry in any real sense.

They were never supportive of the anti-apartheid movement for South Africa, as far as I know.

[cali]

10. The ADL has become a pathetic joke.

[oberliner]

11. This headline and article is a lie

The ADL did not label Archbishop Tutu anti-semitic for critique of Israel.

[Howardx]

12. do you really think nitpicky bullshit helps your side?

do you think it endears you and your opinions to anyone?

[oberliner]

13. I don't have a side - other than the side of peace

I think this is an op-ed piece masquerading as a news article. And I hate when people manipulate quotes to suit their own ends.

[Howardx]

15. god its getting thick in here

"i dont have a side"

[Alamuti Lotus]

19. yes, hiding behind euphemisms is The Awesome

[oberliner]

41. What is it a euphemism for?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I meant what I wrote - it was not intended to be a euphemism for anything.

[Sezu]

14. TRUTH is nit picky bullshit???? Really? In what

fucking universe Xboy? Revealing propagandistic headlines for what they are does much to ameliorate the actual truth of the matter in question. The ADL has one opinion; others the opposite but nothing is gained by allowing half truths to go unchallenged even if a lover of anti-Israel propaganda like yourself defends it at every avenue as long as it demonizes Israel; the ONLY Jewish state.

[azurnoir]

16. Straight from the "horses mouth"

"Desmond Tutu is a poor choice for commencement speaker," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag. This is not someone to be held up as a model or awarded an honorary degree, given his history of bombastic rhetoric and unceasing support for the anti-Israel boycott effort.

http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/D28AB880-612D-48A9-B74A-4863E3508FC1.htm

[Jefferson23]

17. Those are his exact words, let everyone be aware of them and their

relevance to the credibility of ADL. Keep talking Abe, we're listening.

[Sezu]

20. And here are some of Tutu's words

The Israeli daily Ha'aretz (April 29, 2002), reporting Tutu's remarks at a conference in Boston, quoted him as saying:

* "Israel is like Hitler and apartheid"

The apartheid government was very powerful, but today it no longer exists. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pinochet, Milosevic, and Idi Amin were all powerful, but in the end they bit the dust. Injustice and oppression will never prevail."
* "The Jewish lobby is very powerful": "People are scared in this country , to say wrong is wrong because the Jewish lobby is powerful--very powerful."

"Critics of Israel are being smeared": "You know as well as I do that, somehow, the Israeli government is placed on a pedestal and to criticize it is to be immediately dubbed anti-Semitic, as if Palestinians were not Semitic."

"Jewish Arrogance" Tutu accused Jews of exhibiting "an arrogance--the arrogance of power because Jews are a powerful lobby in this land and all kinds of people woo their support,"(Jewish Telegraphic Agency Daily News Bulletin, Nov. 29, 1984)

"Jewish Monopoly of the Holocaust Tutu complained about the Jewish monopoly of the Holocaust." (Jerusalem Post, July 26, 1985)

"Forgive the Nazis" During his 1989 visit to Israel, Tutu "urged Israelis to forgive the Nazis for the
Holocaust" (Jerusalem Post, Dec. 31, 1989), a statement which the Simon Wiesenthal Center called "a gratuitous insult to Jews and victims of Nazism everywhere." During the visit, Tutu remarked "If I'm accused of being antisemitic, tough luck," and in response to questions about his anti-Jewish bias, Tutu replied, "My dentist's name is Dr. Cohen." (Simon Wiesenthal Center's Response magazine, January 1990)

"Zionism Is Racism" Tutu has claimed that Zionism has "very many parallels with racism." (American Jewish Year Book 1988, p.50)

"Jews Thought They Had a Monopoly on God" Speaking in a Connecticut church in 1984, Tutu said that "the Jews thought they had a monopoly on God; Jesus was angry that they could shut out other human beings." In the same speech, he compared the features of the ancient Holy Temple in Jerusalem to the features of the apartheid system in South Africa. (Hartford Courant, Oct. 29, 1984)

"Palestine, Not Israel": In conversations during the 1980s with the Israeli ambassador to South Africa, Eliahu Lankin, Tutu "refused to call Israel by its name, he kept referring to it as Palestine." (Simon Wiesenthal Center's Response magazine, January 1990)

"Jews Cause Refugees": Asked about the Zionism-is-racism resolution, Tutu complained that
"the Jewish people with their traditions, religion and long history of persecution sometimes appear to have caused a refugee problem among others." (South African Zionist Record, July 26, 1985)

[bemildred]

21. Lieberman Tells Russian Newspaper: U.S. Will Accept Any Israeli Decision

The Obama Administration will put forth new peace initiatives only if Israel wants it to, said Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman in his first comprehensive interview on foreign policy since taking office.

"Believe me, America accepts all our decisions," Lieberman told the Russian daily Moskovskiy Komosolets.

Lieberman granted his first major interview to Alexander Rosensaft, the Israel correspondent of one of the oldest Russian dailies, not to an Israeli newspaper. The role of Israel is to "bring the U.S. and Russia closer," he declared.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3842832

And I'm supposed to get upset about Tutu saying "The Jewish lobby is very powerful"?

[Jefferson23]

23. And I'm supposed to get upset about Tutu saying "The Jewish lobby is very powerful"?

ROFL

[oberliner]

40. Would you invite Lieberman to be your school's commencement speaker?

Would you think it in poor taste for a US college or university to do so?

[bemildred]

56. I think that's their business, not mine.

They can invite anybody they want. If I ran the school, I'd have to have a good reason to consider Lieberman, like I wanted to have the students see a real settler-whacko up close. You ought not confuse inviting someone to talk to endorsement, it does not follow, and it betrays a mindset that fears ideas and discussion. It's true I would not pay him much.

[oberliner]

63. I hear ya

Personally I do not see any problem with inviting Tutu to speak at Commencement and I think Foxman ought not to have gotten involved on behalf of the ADL.

They should maybe look into getting some new leadership.

[azurnoir]

73. Thats a "popular" quote in these here parts

:blush:

[Jefferson23]

22. You found all of those from what website,

this one? http://www.zoa.org/sitedocuments/pressrelease_view.asp?pressreleaseID=1370 or here? http://blog.camera.org/archives/2007/10/the_tutu_affair_and_accusation.html

Compiled and characterized are his words by those websites but it doesn't list the links to the original press reports in full. Maybe you have them?

Do you believe Tutu is anti-Semitic?

[IndianaGreen]

24. BBC 2002: Tutu condemns Israeli 'apartheid'

Tutu condemns Israeli 'apartheid'

South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused Israel of practising apartheid in its policies towards the Palestinians.

The Nobel peace laureate said he was "very deeply distressed" by a visit to the Holy Land, adding that "it reminded me so much of what happened to us black people in South Africa".

In a speech in the United States, carried in the UK's Guardian newspaper, Archbishop Tutu said he saw "the humiliation of the Palestinians at checkpoints and roadblocks, suffering like us when young white police officers prevented us from moving about".

The archbishop, who was a leading opponent of apartheid in South Africa, said Israel would "never get true security and safety through oppressing another people".

Archbishop Tutu said his criticism of the Israeli Government did not mean he was anti-Semitic.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1957644.stm

Tutu sounds like someone that cares about human rights, and one that has experienced apartheid.

[bemildred]

25. Well, at a minimum, I think we need to hunt down Lieberman first.

He sounds like a much more dangerous anti-semite to me.

[Alamuti Lotus]

28. "Critics of Israel are being smeared"--how absurd! ... well, not really.

nice cut and paste. Do you have any original thoughts, or should we just all go to CAMERA and save a step in this ridiculous PR process..

[Ken Burch]

30. None of those threads prove antisemitism

BTW...were you AGAINST apartheid in South Africa?

I mean, in the Eighties or earlier, when it counted?

[LeftishBrit]

32. This list sounds a bit like the lists that keep cropping up of what Israeli leaders have supposedly

said.

Some of them correct but mostly taken out of context; some wrong; some unproven one way or another.

With regard to 'forgiving the Nazis', what he said was:

'Our Lord would say that in the end the positive thing that can come is the spirit of forgiving, not forgetting, but the spirit of saying: God, this happened to us. We pray for those who made it happen, help us to forgive them and help us so that we in our turn will not make others suffer." Praying for and forgiving one's enemies is a central part of Christian doctrine (and that of some other religions) - I don't think it was intended to imply that the Nazis were really not that bad, or that the Jews deserved what they got.

He has compared Israeli policy in the West Bank and Gaza to apartheid and to antisemitism in history; however, he does *not* equate Israel as a whole with apartheid, and certainly not with Hitler.

Here's an interesting article from the Jerusalem Post a few years ago that puts the matter into some perspective.


www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1159193473149&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter · Cached page


'Desmond Tutu is a supporter of divestment in Israel, which, in the eyes of most staunch Jews, I imagine, casts him as an anti-Semite. I think Tutu is mistaken on this issue. But an anti-Semite?

"To criticize the occupation is not to overlook Israel's unique strengths," he wrote in 2003. "In a region where repressive governments and unjust politicians are the norm, Israel is certainly more democratic than its neighbors. divestment from apartheid South Africa was certainly no less justified because there was repression elsewhere on the African continent...

"Almost instinctively, the Jewish people have always been on the side of the voiceless," Tutu continued. "In their history, there is painful memory of the massive roundups, house demolitions and collective punishment. In their scripture, there is acute empathy for the disenfranchised. The occupation represents a dangerous and selective amnesia of the persecution from which these traditions were born."

Even though Tutu supports a policy I find excessively, unfairly punitive toward Israel, not only wouldn't I call him an anti-Semite, I'd call him a friend, albeit a misguided one, of Israel and the Jewish people.'

[Sezu]

70. Well said. I don't consider him an antisemite either

but can understand why some would. Tutu's a great man but he, like all human beings, is no saint nor infallible. I take special issue with his furtherance of the Apartheid meme. Perhaps his reason succumbs to his trauma or his station/reputation.

[oberliner]

38. Foxman: Tutu certainly is not an anti-Semite and should not be so characterized

“Tutu has certainly been an outspoken, sometimes very harsh critic of Israel and Israeli policies, and has sometimes also used examples which may cross the line,” said Abraham Foxman, the ADL’s national director. But, he added, Tutu “certainly is not an anti-Semite and should not be so characterized and therefore refused a platform.”

http://jta.org/news/article/2007/10/09/104556/adltutu
`

[Jefferson23]

57. oberliner, that is from 2007, are you disputing what his words are in the

article in post #16? If you re-read what I posted in #17, it was Foxman's words I reference people should consider, I did not characterize what he said in any way.

[oberliner]

61. All I'm saying is that he appears to hold two concurrent opinions

One, that Tutu has made statements that convey bigotry and two that Tutu is not an anti-semite.

Perhaps it is impossible to hold both of these views at the same time - I don't know.

I don't think he thinks he was labeling Tutu as an anti-semite with the remarks he was saying, but people are free to disagree with that or simply state that I am wrong!

[Jefferson23]

68. You certainly are free to interpret Foxman's statements from 2007

and now any way you choose. For me, his words make his intent very clear, as he has outlined defense for Israel in this manner before, a consistent pattern of attacking the individuals motives. Whether that be overt or cloaked with other word ploys, Foxman sets out to discredit the person.

To me, Abe is a despicable piece of shit.

[Ken Burch]

29. The headline couldn't be changed without violating the repressive policies of the I/P thread

They should just let us put a headline of our own choice on these threads.

[azurnoir]

31. The headline is true

as exhibited in posts #16 and #24

[oberliner]

34. No it is not

He does not call Tutu an anti-semite.

Edit to add: See post 36 where he explicitly says that Tutu is not an anti-semite.

[Violet_Crumble]

47. It fucking well is...

From the press release "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag.'

[oberliner]

51. I will shoot him an email and try to get clarification

If you were to ask Foxman if he was labeling Tutu an anti-semite with that press release, I think he would say that he was not.

[Violet_Crumble]

52. The words in that press release speak for themselves...

I couldn't give a shit about you trying to get him to weasel out of what he said. You'd be better off asking that moron why he can't bring himself to acknowledge the genocide of the Armenians...

[Violet_Crumble]

37. No, it's not. The ADL have labelled him antisemitic...

I suspect it's already been posted in this thread, but it doesn't hurt to post it again. Here it is, straight from the horses mouth....

'"Desmond Tutu is a poor choice for commencement speaker," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag. This is not someone to be held up as a model or awarded an honorary degree, given his history of bombastic rhetoric and unceasing support for the anti-Israel boycott effort.'

http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/D28AB880-612D-48A9-B74A-4863E3508FC1.htm

Bur really. Nothing coming from that Armenian genocide denying twit surprises me anymore...

[oberliner]

39. Foxman: Tutu certainly is not an anti-Semite and should not be so characterized

“Tutu has certainly been an outspoken, sometimes very harsh critic of Israel and Israeli policies, and has sometimes also used examples which may cross the line,” said Abraham Foxman, the ADL’s national director. But, he added, Tutu “certainly is not an anti-Semite and should not be so characterized and therefore refused a platform.”

http://jta.org/news/article/2007/10/09/104556/adltutu

While Archbishop Tutu is not a friend of Israel, we do not believe he is an anti-Semite.

http://adl.org/PresRele/Education_01/5146_01.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

42. Why are you posting stuff from 2007 when he was labelled an antisemite this week? n/t

[oberliner]

45. He has not labeled Tutu an antisemite

He says that Tutu has made statements that convey bigotry. Foxman also said the same thing about Tutu in 2007 while stating that this did not mean he thought he was an antisemite.

When Foxman wants to label someone an antisemite, he calls them an antisemite. As you know, this is not something that he or the ADL shy away from doing in a very direct manner.

[Violet_Crumble]

46. Oh good. Yr now back to what he's actually said now...

He sure as hell did label him antisemitic, and I'm finding yr blind defence of him by trying to parse miniscule things that have no affect on what he said to be far below what I've been used to seeing in yr posts...

So for what seems the millionth time in this thread, here's where he labelled him antisemitic: "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag."

WTF do you call 'outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people' if not antisemitism???

[oberliner]

49. "His statements have conveyed bigotry" does not equal "He is an antisemite"

Some of my statements have conveyed stupidity but that does not mean that I am an idiot!

[Violet_Crumble]

54. Now yr just getting absolutely ridiculous...

Saying 'His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people' most definately is labelling him as antisemitic. If someone gets convicted for the theft of a car, and the media reports it as a car theif getting sentenced, I assume you'd jump up and down and insist that the media was lying as no-one said they were a car thief? Coz that's how silly yr rather frantic and volumnous attempts to defend what Abe said have been. Seriously, unless someone goes 'yr an antisemite!!' they're not accusing people of being antisemitic? That's so ridiculous. So according to you someone can say 'go and read yr fave book, the Elders of the Protocols of Zion and make up more blood libels against Jews!' they're not labelling the other person antisemitic? Get real...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

58. I'm afraid I disagree

"Bigotry against the Jewish people" is a synonym for antisemitism.

"His statements have conveyed antisemitism" *is* an accusation of antisemitism, especially if prevented without qualifiers.

That a separate statement where Foxman denies that Tutu is antisemitic exists just means that he has contradicted himself, not that he has not accused Tutu of antisemitism.

[oberliner]

62. I respect what you are saying

But have there not been times when people have been accused of making, for example, racist statements though they themselves were not being accused of being racist?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

64. Arguably

But what I think there are more of are cases where people are accused of being racist by people who want to maintain plausible deniability.

Also, I think that "his statements conveyed antisemitism" is a stronger claim than "his statements were antisemitic".

It appears to be a fairly standard MO for Foxman - he's previously accused Jimmy Carter of engaging in antisemitism, and then denied calling him an antisemite, and that he was not ready to call Mel Gibson an antisemite but that he held views that were antisemitic.

[oberliner]

66. I think Foxman ought to be replaced

Time for new leadership at the ADL!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

67. What do you see the function of the ADL as being?

My impression is that it sees its primary role at present as being to oppose criticism of Israel, and that criticising anti-semitism is merely a secondary goal. For that agenda, I think Foxman is doing a fine job.

[oberliner]

69. Fighting anti-semitism, bigotry, and extremism

I think their Israel focus may be a function of their current leadership. Foxman and others believe that anti-semitism often cloaks itself in the guise of anti-Zionism.

While I would agree that this can sometimes be the case, I think it would behoove Foxman and the ADL to be more selective in how they approach this phenomenon.

[shira]

77. "people have been accused of making... racist statements though they themselves were not...

..being accused of being racist".

That's it in a nutshell.

Foxman accused Tutu of making bigoted statements. He didn't call Tutu a bigot or an anti-semite. There's a difference between someone being a bigot and someone accused of making bigoted statements.

[oberliner]

80. That was what I was saying

Especially since Foxman has said the same kind of thing about Tutu before while also explicitly stating that he did not believe that Tutu himself was antisemitic.

When Foxman wants to call someone an anti-semite, he says "He is an antisemite."

That is not something he has ever been shy or indirect about.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

81. I think you are too generous to him.

When Foxman wants to call someone he can get away with calling an antisemite an antisemite, he calls them an antisemite.

When he wants to call someone like Tutu or Carter an antisemite, he has to equivocate, in such a way as to get that person's name and the word antisemitism into the same sentence, while retaining plausible deniability.

[IndianaGreen]

26. ADL: Archbishop Desmond Tutu 'Poor Choice' for Commencement Ceremonies

For the misguided DUer that called the OP a distortion and pack of lies, here is from ADL:

Archbishop Desmond Tutu 'Poor Choice' for Commencement Ceremonies

New York, NY, April 6, 2009 … Citing his long history as a strident critic of Israel and his vocal support for anti-Israel boycotts, the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today said that Archbishop Desmond Tutu was a "poor choice" to deliver the commencement addresses at Michigan State University and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

"Desmond Tutu is a poor choice for commencement speaker," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag. This is not someone to be held up as a model or awarded an honorary degree, given his history of bombastic rhetoric and unceasing support for the anti-Israel boycott effort.

"It is one thing to give him a platform to speak on campus; it is quite another to confer an honorary degree on an individual who actively promotes academic boycotts," Mr. Foxman added.

In a letter to Dr. Lou Anna K. Simon, President of Michigan State University, the League called on the university to reconsider the invitation extended to Archbishop Tutu unless he "publicly repudiates" his support for an academic and cultural boycott of Israel.

"Archbishop Tutu has unequivocally endorsed an academic boycott based on ideas that are anti-Semitic and should be anathema to any institution of higher learning truly committed to academic freedom," the League said it its letter to MSU. ADL sent a similar letter to Dr. Holden Thorp, Chancellor of the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

http://www.adl.org/NR/exeres/D28AB880-612D-48A9-B74A-4863E3508FC1.htm

[oberliner]

35. He does not say that Tutu is anti-semitic as the headline claims

The headline even puts the word anti-semitic in quotes.

Edit: Note post 36 where he explicitly states that Tutu is not anti-semitic.

[IndianaGreen]

60. Take your gripe to ADL. It's their press release!

The zombies that follow the ADL's orders will accuse Tutu of being an anti-Semite just as they have Hugo Chavez, another of Abe Foxman's favorite targets.

[HamdenRice]

74. To paraphrase Richard Pryor

Who are you gonna believe? Oberliner or your lyin' eyes?

:rofl:

[azurnoir]

72. bigotry against the Jewisg people was what Foxman said

"Desmond Tutu is a poor choice for commencement speaker," said Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director. "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people"


so your right he did say the words anti-semitic, BTW this quote is a bit more recent yours was 10/10/07 this one is 04/09/09

[oberliner]

36. Foxman: The ADL does not believe Tutu is an anti-Semite

Direct quote from Abe Foxman on behalf of the ADL regarding Tutu:

While Archbishop Tutu is not a friend of Israel, we do not believe he is an anti-Semite.

http://adl.org/PresRele/Education_01/5146_01.htm

[Violet_Crumble]

43. Foxman most definately did label him antisemitic in the CURRENT ADL press release...

"His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag."

Why are you ignoring what the ADL press release said?

[oberliner]

44. He does not label him antisemitic in that quote

He says that Tutu's statements have conveyed bigotry.

Foxman has said the same thing in the past - that Tutu has made statements that convey bigotry, but that he is not an antisemite.

This is in contrast to Morton Klein, President of the Zionist Organization of America who said:

"Desmond Tutu is an anti-Semite who hates Jews and is obsessed with demeaning and smearing the Jewish state"

Now that is labeling him an antisemite.

[Violet_Crumble]

48. He certainly did and anyone who claims otherwise is being dishonest...

Yet again, here's what Foxman said: "His statements about Israel have time and again conveyed outright bigotry against the Jewish homeland and the Jewish people, and his deepening involvement in the anti-Israel boycott effort should have raised a red flag."

That's sure as hell labelling him antisemitic, so cut the crap...

[oberliner]

50. Well Abe doesn't think so

As he has said the exact same thing in the past while in the same press release saying that he does not believe Tutu is antisemitic.

[Violet_Crumble]

53. If he doesn't think it, then he shouldn't label him an antisemite...it's very easy...

You didn't answer the question I've asked you several times now. Do you need me to point you to it or can you find it yrself?

[oberliner]

55. Can you point me to the question you mean?

I would be happy to answer it.

[HamdenRice]

59. Strategic irrelevant nit picking bullshit has overtaken this discussion

Foxman and the ADL called Tutu a bigot against Jews, which is the same as an anti-Semite. If you want to play word games fine, but I won't.

The PR brigade has deflected this entire discussion from how utterly outrageous the Foxman/ADL position is, into a bizarre and idiotic argument about whether bigot=anti-Semite.

I would urge everyone to ignore the diversion and stay on point. Let the word gamers play by themselves.

Tutu is neither a bigot nor an anti-Semite. He is one of the greatest human rights advocates of our time, and he is being smeared and blacklisted for making perfectly reasonable and legitimate criticisms of Israel's policies and pointing out their similarities to apartheid.

[oberliner]

65. Not strategic and not a bridage

As far as I can tell, I think I am the only poster who brought up anything about whether Foxman called Tutu an anti-semite or not.

There was no "strategy" involved in this; I just do not believe that Foxman's statement constituted calling Tutu an anti-semite.

But, that aside, I would be happy to discuss whatever element of the story you find to be significant.

Is not the whole story rather trivial to begin with?

Tutu was invited to speak, Foxman complained about it, the school kept Tutu as a speaker anyway.

What "on point" discussion ought to follow from this?

The fact that the ADL is sometimes disregarded when they complain about things?

[HamdenRice]

71. Is, or is not, the Foxman/ADL position on Tutu outrageous and dishonest?

That's the only question. He has tried at least two times to get Tutu disinvited to universities.

Will you unconditionally condemn that position?

Again, please don't introduce extraneous questions. Either you condemn this position or you don't.

[oberliner]

76. Foxman actually intervened on Tutu's behalf in support of his speaking at St. Thomas U.

If that is the other university speaking engagement you are talking about, Foxman actually argued that he should be permitted to speak there.

If there is another incident that you are talking about, please let me know what it was.

As for these most recent comments, I do not agree with what Foxman is saying and I think he is making a mistake speaking out like this on behalf of the ADL. It's bad for the ADL and I wish they had different leadership.

[HamdenRice]

78. Is, or is not, the Foxman/ADL position on Tutu outrageous and dishonest?

It's a yes/no question.

[oberliner]

79. Not the adjectives I would use, no

Can we compromise with "overheated and misguided" ?