Hamas rules out truce with Israel

[dArKeR]

The Islamic group Hamas has ruled out halting militancy in a three-year-old Palestinian revolt but says it could limit attacks to Israeli soldiers and settlers if the Jewish state stops harming Palestinian civilians.

The Palestinian Authority has been seeking a dialogue with militants on reining in violence to advance a U.S.-backed "road map" to peaceful statehood in the West Bank and Gaza Strip alongside Israel.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/24by7panews/page.cfm?objectid=13583194&method=full&siteid=50143

[drdon326]

1. yawn

what do they have to do with peace anyhow??

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Further proof

That Israel has no chance for peace not matter what it does.

[Darranar]

3. What does this prove?

That Hamas is unwilling to make peace? (duh!)

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. Exactly

And, since the Palestinian leadership won't shut them down, Israel can't make peace with the Palestinians.

[Darranar]

8. Who is going to shut down Sharon?

The Palestinians can't make peace with Israel until he's out.

[Muddleoftheroad]

13. He won't be out

Till the Palestinians act on peace. As long as Israel faces a war, they will choose a war leader.

[Darranar]

16. And can't the same be said of the Palestinians?

Hamas won't be out, until the Israelis act on peace. Aslong as the Palestinians face a war, they will support warriors.

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. Then the Palestinians are screwed

Since they don't have a state, THEY are the ones who need to improve the status quo. Continuing the barbarous acts of terror only steels the resolve of most in Israel to move ahead and be secure. That means the wall will go up and the Palestinians will continue to be stateless.

Or the Palestinians could choose peace.

[Forkboy]

18. Isn't this admitting that collective punishment is the reality?

If less than 1% of the Palestinians are commiting acts of terror why punish all of them?

[Muddleoftheroad]

20. If the Palestinians WERE a nation

Then Israel would have declared war long ago because of their failure to shut down terror. The Palestinians (the majority, according to a survey, support terror) have chosen the current path or chosen NOT to do anything about it.

[Forkboy]

21. ok

what can the average Palestinian do then? We can't stop Bush here in the US,how can they stop Hamas,etc.?

[drdon326]

22. First....

they can least STOP supporting terrorist actions.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=22195

75% of Palestinians support Haifa restaurant attack !!

[Forkboy]

23. That is disturbing

but voicing support isn't really supporting them in a physical way.I'm not sure it has that big of an effect one way or the other.It's not logistical support or monetary support.

Assuming,for the sake of argument,that they did stop voicing support (support which has risen drastically since Sharon took over we should note),what effect would that have on the situation? Would Hamas suddenly stop? Would the settlements dissolve?

Why do you think there is that 75% support and what might be done to lower that number?

[bluesoul]

24. Supporting terror

Again I will ask, how many Israelis support Sharon's murder policy? As he is elected PM, that speaks in VOLUMES. So much about supporting murder and terror...

[Forkboy]

25. Well there is that as well

but for once I'm trying to stay focused :)

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. Shutting down terror

We still live in a democracy. If the people get upset about something and make it plain they want it, it can happen. The Palestinians should know by now that Hamas is hurting not helping their cause. They should demand action against the terror groups and, if necessary, take arms against them.

Sooner or later the Palestinians are going to have to fight the terror groups for control of their would-be nation. It might as well be now.

[Forkboy]

27. I agree with that

I personally will never understand how anyone believe that terror helps them...on either side.

[Darranar]

29. Then stop complaining about the suicide bombings.

[Muddleoftheroad]

30. Your post makes no sense

Continuing the suicide bombs HURTS the Palestinians, it doesn't help them.

[Darranar]

31. Clarification...

You're saying that the Palestinians are in a horrible situation because of the suicide bombings. You imply that teh Israelis are all fine and well off. That's a contradiction.

The Israelis DO have something to gain from peace - and so do the Palestinians. Both can be delivered by the other side. What is needed is a stop to the vengeful violence and oppression by both sides - which includes both Israel's "security measures", along with the settlements, and the despicable Palestinian terrorist attacks.

[Muddleoftheroad]

32. No, Israel is far from fine

But the Palestinians are the ones who are worse off as a result of the actions of terrorists. They lack a state and appear to be moving further away from that opportunity with every terror attack.

[Darranar]

33. Once again...

you think of Israel's actions as reactions to a situation - that being Palestinian terrorism.

You fail to see that Palestinian terrorism is a reaction to a situation - the occupation, the settlements, the wall, the bulldozing of houses, the incursions, the assasinations, etc.

[Aidoneus]

4. what happened the last time Hamas signed on for a ceasefire?

the guy who signed them onto it got shot (quite deliberately targetting the most conciliatory among them). What's in it for their interests if Israel just uses it as a chance for "business as usual"?

[ForestsBeatBushes]

5. what happened the last time Hamas signed on for a ceasefire?

lots of Israelis got murdered at a cafe in Jerusalem; some buses; you know, for Hamas, just 'business as usual'

[Resistance]

6. Gee, you forgot to mention

Since the commencement of the ceasefire (which applies only to Palestinians) on June 29, Israeli soldiers and settlers have killed 17 people (including 7 children), wounded 437 (including 88 children), arrested 593 people, confiscated 4,457 acres of land for Jewish settlements, bulldozed 987 acres of farmland, destroyed 12,462 trees and destroyed or damaged 253 houses.

source

[auH2Olost]

10. Introducing EI

http://electronicintifada.net

The Electronic Intifada (EI), found at electronicIntifada.net, publishes news, commentary, analysis, and reference materials about the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict from a Palestinian perspective.
------------------------

Netrality does not exist between positive and negative charges but only
in a sinusoidal wave of alternating energy. EI sucks the energy out of
those with a neutral mind.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. "EI sucks"

Well, they got SOMETHING right.

[tinnypriv]

9. I think you missed the point (nt)

[auH2Olost]

11. What, exactly was the so-called "point"?

Any idea?

[Aidoneus]

12. since I was the author

my point was quite basically "what's in it for them?"

Instead of an explanation why things would be different this time, the response was of the "I know you are but what am I?" variety of evasive mimicking; while that might've knocked them dead on the kindergarten playground, it doesn't do much to advance things in real discussions.

[tinnypriv]

28. Are you the hand, or the puppet?

Just curious.

[Forkboy]

15. Well,this is a shocking development

[bemildred]

19. And it worked so well the last time ...