Fatah woman smuggles self out of Gaza

[oberliner]

Gaza – Ma’an – Despite Hamas' threats to stop her and hundreds of others, a dedicated woman will nevertheless attend August's sixth Fatah conference after slipping out of Gaza unnoticed.

Fatah later said as many as 57 of its members had similarly snuck out of Gaza.

Fatah delegate Ghalya Abu Setah left on Friday riding in a cart pulled by a donkey through the Erez crossing with Israel, she said, and ultimately entered the West Bank a few days early for the conference.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=215952

[Violet_Crumble]

1. You claimed a while back that Ma'an was an ureliable source...

Or does that only apply when it carries articles about extremist settlers attacking Palestinian civilians?

[oberliner]

2. I claimed that Ma'an was unreliable in its coverage of Israel

I made that claim because they have in the past published articles pertaining to Israel without any statement from the Israeli side.

In that same comment I also claimed that I thought it was very reliable in its coverage of internal Palestinian issues.

And it covers many internal Palestinian issues that do not get covered anywhere else in English language press outlets.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. Yeah, I guessed it'd be an application of double standards...

It boils down to you thinking that what you like seeing (eg news of Palestinians doing bad things to other Palestinians) is *reliable*, and things you prefer not to see but which everyone else knows happens (eg Israeli settlers attacking Palestinian civilians) is *unreliable*. I'm still not sure why you insist that the Israeli govt has to give a statement in every article on violence towards Palestinians by settlers, and I doubt I'll ever get any sort of explanation...

[Kurska]

4. Here you go

Fatah activists don Islamic garb to flee Hamas-run Gaza



Two dozen Fatah activists have sneaked out of Hamas-ruled Gaza in recent days, including a woman who said she hitched a ride with farmers on a donkey cart Friday to get past Hamas troops at a border checkpoint.

The getaways are the latest twist in a standoff between the Islamic militant Hamas and Fatah, Palestinian rivals who rule Gaza and the West Bank, respectively.

Fatah is holding its first convention in 20 years, starting Tuesday in the West Bank town of Bethlehem. More than 1,500 delegates are to attend, including 450 from Gaza.

However, Hamas says it will not allow the Gazans to leave until Fatah's
leader, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, releases some 900 Hamas detainees he holds in the West Bank.

Rather than wait for an unlikely compromise, 27 Fatah delegates sneaked out of Gaza in recent days, said Ghassan Jadallah, a Fatah organizer.

Travelers leaving Gaza have to present their documents at a Hamas checkpoint about a mile away from Gaza's Erez crossing into Israel. Several hundred yards closer to Erez, in an area off-limits to Hamas, another checkpoint is staffed by Abbas loyalists who coordinate with Israeli border officials by walkie talkie to direct the flow of passengers.

Israel and Egypt have virtually sealed Gaza's borders since a violent Hamas takeover of the territory in June 2007. Few Gazans are permitted to leave Gaza via Erez. They include medical patients with severe illnesses and business people.

However, Israel has granted permits to nearly all the Fatah delegates from Gaza, in a gesture of support for Abbas. Israel has also permitted scores of Fatah delegates from the diaspora to enter the West Bank, said Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat.

"It is really shameful that the big question mark is about delegates coming from Gaza," he said.

Ghaliya Abu Sitte, 63, a Fatah delegate from the southern Gaza town of Khan Younis, said she left home early Friday, put on the traditional Muslim veil and long robe, took a taxi and got out a few hundred yards before the Hamas checkpoint.

"I saw a donkey cart with two women who were collecting grass and wood, she said in an interview later Friday at a West Bank hotel. I got on the cart. I thought to myself, 'They won't notice me if I ride it.' I passed the Hamas checkpoint. They didn't stop me or ask me."

Jadallah said others posed as medical patients on their way to treatment in Israel, including a woman delegate who got in a wheelchair and was pushed by three fellow Fatah activists. Others bypassed the Hamas checkpoint by walking through orange groves.

Abu Sitte said her daughter-in-law, who accompanied her for the trip to the border, was later detained by Hamas police. She and other Fatah delegates said they would return to Gaza after the conference and were not afraid of arrest.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1104394.html

lol forgot the source

[Violet_Crumble]

5. And what am I supposed to do with that?

I'm not the one who insisted in a thread about extremist settlers attacking Palestinian civilians that Ma'an was an unreliable source. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of saying it is a reliable source only when it provides news that's agreeable to the poster's agenda...

on edit: I shoud dig back and find that other thread, coz I rememmber Oberliner still insisted Ma'an wasn't a credible source even after the same event was appearing in other news sources...

[Kurska]

6. Maybe you can get Oberliner to pinky swear not to use that source anymore and we can talk content

of the article in question?

[Violet_Crumble]

8. I didn't say I wanted him to stop using it. I was just pointing out the hypocrisy...

I dunno, if that's a problem for you, you don't have to read these posts...

[Kurska]

9. Wouldn't the solution to said hypocrisy be to stop using that source? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

11. I don't give a shit if he does or not. It's not up to me to tell someone what not to post n./t

[oberliner]

7. They publish a lot of positive things about Palestinians

I think they are reliable with regard to Palestinian issues whether they are covering stories about "bad things" or "good things" but not as reliable when covering Israel because they do not have as much access to inside sources in Israel as they do in the West Bank and Gaza.

But I could be wrong. I don't know that much about the inner workings of that news outlet. If you have more information that would add to or take away from their overall credibility I would be interested in reading about it.

If there is a conflict between Palestinians and Israeli settlers, I would think that any news source would want to get statements from both sides if they were covering such an incident. If Israeli soldiers/police became involved, I would think a reporter would want to hear from them as well.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. What you think doesn't make any sense and that's why it's hypocritical...

It's not about "good" stories and "bad" stories. You, without having any real knowledge of Ma'an, decided that they were unreliable, even though other news sources were reporting the exact same story of extremist settlers attacking Palestinians. And what makes yr stance a hypocritical one is that not once have I ever seen you hold Israeli news sources like Ha'aretz etc to the same exacting standard and voice the opinion that they're not reliable when it comes to covering the Occupied Territories because they don't have as much access to inside sources there...


I think it's absolutely ridiculous that you'd question an attack by settlers actually happened unless the Israeli govt made a statement on it...

[oberliner]

12. Ha'aretz has lots of access to people in the Occupied Territories

In fact, some of their reporters operate from the Occupied Territories.

I do not believe that there any Ma'an reporters who operate inside Israel. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I found Ma'an to be unreliable with regard to Israel because they tend not to get any statement from the Israeli side in disputes between Israelis and Palestinians.

But that was a bit ago. I am prepared to re-evaluate that position and take the news source more seriously if you think I ought to.

I certainly respect your breadth of knowledge regarding various sources that cover the region. If you think I'm off-base regarding this source, I'll have to investigate further.

[Violet_Crumble]

13. You've already told me you don't know much about Ma'an...

So don't turn around now and act like you do..

I've never claimed to have any great breadth of knowledge, so what you said is just coming across as passive-agressive and not the slightest bit genuine. I get enough of that shit at work without having to put up with it here..

[oberliner]

14. Well I read it a lot - I just don't know anything about who runs the show

My opinions come from personal observations of the stories I've read - so in that respect I "know" the source pretty well, but I don't know who owns them or anything about the writers themselves as I do for some sources in the US and Israel.

I do think you have a great deal of knowledge about these sources in particular and the conflict generally. You've been posting here a lot longer than I have, and, in fact, I remember reading your posts in the months before I joined and marveling at how much you seemed to know about it all. You have in fact regularly inspired me to read more and get as informed as I can, in part so I can hold my own in a discussion with you online.

No passive-aggressiveness intended. Just a genuine and sincere observation on my part.

I sometimes make the mistake of imagining that the folks I am debating with on here are like friends. Helps me explain to myself why I spend so much time on here trying to make my case or share my observations. I sometimes forget that not everyone shares that perception.