War Crimes In Gaza, Ctd

[grassfed]

DiA (The Economist) makes many good points while explaining the significance of the UN report released yesterday:

Israel refused to cooperate with the investigation. That, as Aluf Benn writes in Ha'aretz, was dumb: it means the report can include no Israeli response to the allegations. We have no idea what the tank commanders thought they saw, or whether the destruction of the flour mill was an excusable mistake. With such damning evidence from Palestinian accusers, and no exculpatory evidence from Israeli soldiers, it's hard to see how America can avoid calling on Israel to investigate.

Israel's response has been to launch a campaign to discredit the report as "biased". Few, apart from Israelis themselves, are likely to be convinced. The report credits allegations of war crimes by Hamas as well, including charges that Hamas militants failed to exercise their Geneva Conventions responsibilty to keep away from the civilian population, which is precisely the charge Israel levels at them. Hamas, meanwhile, issued similar accusations of bias. As Juan Cole, a Middle East expert, points out, this suggests the report is probably on target. And Israel simply lacks the credibility to accuse a panel headed by Judge Goldstone, a hero of the anti-apartheid movement, of bias.

Demonizing Goldstone, given his record, seems wrong to me. That war was a moral disgrace; it lost Israel friends and support; and its achievements are minimal.

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2009/09/war-crimes-in-gaza-ctd.html

[pelsar]

1. claim what you want about the killed and wounded...but ...

its achievements are minimal.

quite the opposite...no longer are over Tens of thousands israelis, being terrorize and running to shelters 2,3 times a day (and night) for over 6 years. For those people the stopping of the kassams is hardly a "minimum achievement.

there have been many that have claimed that because the kassams can't be aimed, only have 10kg of explosives....that they "really dont count as real terrorism....and i suspect (just guessing here) that they've never lived in an area where rockets fall randomly day and night, year after year....sometimes killing, wounding, destroying and sometimes just falling in to a field....but always exploding with a loud bang, the sirens that follow and the waiting for the next salvo....

for those people, who no longer live with daily terrorist strikes...the achievements were very good......(so i guess given the limited options and your reaction, you would have preferred no war (and of course the kassams would have continued as per hamas stated intentions....continued terrorism on israeli citizens would have been the result)

[grassfed]

2. see link

[pelsar]

4. so?

the moral question is:

1600 lives + destruction of parts of gaza vs 6 years (and continued) terrorizing not just the 10' of thousands of citizens near gaza but including ashkelon as well (add another 100,000) day and night with random and every improving rockets.

and as hamas has proven since the war....they could stop the launching any time......

[grassfed]

5. There is a beheaded baby Palestinian girl at the link.

your insensitivity is staggering, even for a hasbara intern.

[Mosby]

6. Besides liking death porn and hating Israel

what other opinions do you share with Sullivan?

[pelsar]

7. oh...i hadn't realized that seeing a picture of dead baby then turns my brain off

if i understand correctly if i show you pictures of dead israeli babies and grandmothers, you'll decide that the Palestinians groups are all "evil" (if i understand what your saying), and you'll agree with the israeli govt?

___

this is a forum for intelligent discussions about the conflict, as far as i know, and not some kind of emotional "feel good/bad" group.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. I really would have preferred to have some warning about the pic being very graphic...

Here's my two cents worth. I didn't read a word of the article - as soon as I saw that photo I closed my browser so quick it was like it was never on my screen. Those sort of photos of victims of conflicts like this are really appalling, imo, and they're not used for good purposes, and I don't think it's showing respect for the victims to be flashing photos of dead people around on the net. Those dead people have families, and I doubt any of them would want their loved ones remembered like that...

[Mosby]

3. Andrew Sullivan?

That's the best source you could come up with?