Report: Abbas drops demand for settlement freeze under US pressure

[ProgressiveMuslim]

Bethlehem – Ma’an – Two key Israeli officials are headed to Washington on Wednesday for continued talks leading up to renewed peace negotiations with the Palestinian Authority.

An aide to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's attorney Yitzhak Molcho, and Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak's chief of staff, Michael Herzog will attend the talks with US Middle East envoy George Mitchell and senior White House officials, according to the newspaper Haaretz.

President Mahmoud Abbas shook hands with Netanyahu during a summit with US President Barack Obama at the United Nations last week. According to Haaretz, the meeting signaled that Abbas has significantly weakened his negotiating stance. The newspaper states that under massive US pressure, Abbas has dropped the demand for a settlement freeze as a precondition for talks.

Chief Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) negotiator Saeb Erekat will also be in Washington, though it is not clear whether he will participate in the talks.

Next week Mitchell return to Israel and meet with Netanyahu and Barak.

According to Haaretz, Obama instructed Mitchell and US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to report to him on progress in the talks by 15 October, in hopes that a framework for renewed negotiations will be reached by then.

In exchange for easing his demand on settlements, the Israeli daily reports, Obama has promised Abbas that the Palestinian viewpoint will be taken into consideration in forming the “framework” for the negotiations.

read on...
http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=228329

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. report: Abbas demands Burger King crown and certificate that says: you hav a kuntry. nt

[Democracyinkind]

2. give us your land, we'll consider your viewpoint.

sounds like a fair deal to me...

[ProgressiveMuslim]

3. Gotta love Obama's role as the broker. Go Barack. Not.

[oberliner]

4. An article about an article?

"According to Ha'aretz" appears no fewer than four times in this rather brief article.

I wonder if the Ma'an News folks have to ask permission to lift entire stories from an Israeli source.

[azurnoir]

5. Fatah tells Abbas: No talks without settlement freeze

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' party, Fatah, demanded he refuse to continue peace talks with Israel until the Netanyahu government agree to halting settlement construction, the Associated Press reported Wednesday.

Fatah Central Committee member Mohammed Dahlan told the news agency that the 23-member committee was unanimous on the issue, and also insisted an agenda for the talks be set ahead of time.

Analysts say the move may help Abbas request that US President Barack Obama remove his pressure from the Palestinian side to let go of their earlier condition. Reports last week said Abbas had bowed to US pressure over the settlement issue shortly after the tripartite meeting between Israel, Palestine and the US in New York on 22 September.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=228847

[ProgressiveMuslim]

6. Dahlan is upholding a national liberation demand?

[azurnoir]

7. Yeah that struck me too

perhaps he trying to score political points as Abbas days are numbered

[ProgressiveMuslim]

8. That the mastermind of the Gaza coup could assume Fatah leadership is truly scary.

It's time for a Third way!!

[ProgressiveMuslim]

9. Perhaps I should say "Master implementer."

[oberliner]

11. Up is Down, Black is White

Hamas throws a Fatah member off a building and to his death.

Hamas seizes the Fatah HQ in Gaza, killing 10 people in the process.

Everyone connected with the leadership of Fatah is driven out of Gaza and Hamas exerts complete control over the area.

Yet this is the implementation of a Fatah coup against Hamas to posters such as yourself.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

15. Drunk the kool-aid down to the last drop, I see.

[oberliner]

19. Pot meet kettle

And round and round we go.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

25. My views have been pretty consistent on here. You used to give the appearance

of striving to be objective.

[oberliner]

32. You are drinking a different flavor of Kool Aid

You swallow the Vanity Fair story/Hamas version - I believe the Fatah version.

That was my point.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

49. A year ago you were interested in facts.

I notice that's less the case these days.

[oberliner]

56. Likewise

I have noticed a great deal more stridency and less openness in your approach to discussions here as well.

[bemildred]

13. I don't think "Master" works so well either. Maybe just "implementor". nt

[oberliner]

20. Except that nothing was implemented

Apart from a coup by Hamas against Fatah - which actually did occur.

[bemildred]

21. That is why no "Master". He proved quite inept. nt

[oberliner]

24. Or perhaps there were no such plans in the first place

And Hamas just wanted to get rid of Fatah - and proceeded to do so.

Not an entirely unreasonable scenario that.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

26. For crying out loud Oberliner. Have you shape shifted into Shira?

[oberliner]

33. Abbas said it was a Hamas coup - you don't believe him.

I take his version over the Hamas version.

[bemildred]

28. Mr Dahlan's plans were well discussed at the time.

There was a good deal of excitement and anticipation until he got his ass kicked. Everyone was quite taken aback at first.

[oberliner]

35. Actually it was eerily quiet around here in June 2007

It was as if all the usual posters took that month off.

I don't recall any of what you are describing taking place here. Do you have links?

[bemildred]

38. Anyone can look throught the archives and anyone can choose who to believe.

I'm not likely to go back and do the work for you on the basis of a claim that it was "eerily quiet" here when the Hamas coup went down.

[oberliner]

39. Sounds fair to me

My claim was only in response to your claim about "excitement and anticipation" which I do not believe you have provided any evidence for.

[bemildred]

41. There is just no fooling you, is there?

You provided no evidence that it was "eerily quiet" here either. That would amount to proving a negative anyway. Big deal.

[oberliner]

45. Well neither of us provided any evidence for our claims

Perhaps we are both full of it?

[bemildred]

53. Or maybe we just have opinions like anybody else. nt

[Vegasaurus]

36. It's weird that people ignore the reality of the events of that period

worldwide reporting agreed on what went on and how there was a coup.

[oberliner]

48. And how much everyone embraces that Vanity Fair article

Have you ever seen anyone here ever use Vanity Fair as a credible source about the I/P conflict before or since?

[azurnoir]

10. +1 agreed n/t

[oberliner]

12. This month's Vanity Fair

This month's Vanity Fair features Penelope Cruz on the cover and a probing survey question about who your favorite Twilight: New Moon couple is.

Clearly that is the go-to source for getting the real story about what is happening in the Middle East!

[ProgressiveMuslim]

16. Anyone else smell the stink of desperation? LOL

[oberliner]

18. I sure do

Never have so many people clung to an article in Vanity Fair (by a supporter of the invasion of Iraq) so confidently.

It borders on the surreal.

[bemildred]

14. The Gaza Bombshell

Who can forget?

After failing to anticipate Hamas’s victory over Fatah in the 2006 Palestinian election, the White House cooked up yet another scandalously covert and self-defeating Middle East debacle: part Iran-contra, part Bay of Pigs. With confidential documents, corroborated by outraged former and current U.S. officials, the author reveals how President Bush, Condoleezza Rice, and Deputy National-Security Adviser Elliott Abrams backed an armed force under Fatah strongman Muhammad Dahlan, touching off a bloody civil war in Gaza and leaving Hamas stronger than ever.

by David Rose

April 2008

http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2008/04/gaza200804

[oberliner]

17. The same David Rose who claimed that Saddam Hussein had links to Al Qaeda.

Saddam and al Qaeda

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-2395416-saddam-and-al-qaeda.do;jsessionid=DB0E094CC8418B539A14D59D3143C4BA

Citation from the above article by David Rose:

Ignoring Iraq's support for terror is a seductive proposition, which fits pleasingly with democracies' natural reluctance to wage war. But if we are serious about winning the war on terror, self-delusion is not an option.

An attempt to achieve regime change in Iraq would not be a distraction, but an integral part of the struggle.

[bemildred]

22. So sometimes he's wrong. Not alone in that, is he? nt

[oberliner]

23. Perhaps his Vanity Fair article is similarly off the mark

I would at least encourage people not to accept that article as some kind of established fact as some here appear to be doing.

[bemildred]

29. I was watching those events closely at the time.

I remember it well. If Vanity Fair was the only source, I would consider your argument, but the Vanity Fair article is really just a nice after the fact summary of events that were reported at the time.

Here is Mr Derfner from 6/17/2007:

The fight against Islamic militancy suffered a major defeat with Hamas's bloody takeover of the Gaza Strip. "This is the first military coup in the Arab world in 30 years, and Islamic forces did it," declared Israeli TV commentator Ehud Yaari. It is alarming news for the Bush administration, for Israel, for the West, for the moderate Muslim world, and above all for the 1.4 million Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

---

The Bush administration's Palestinian policy now lies in ruins. Since Hamas's January 2006 election victory, the United States and Israel have tried unsuccessfully to bolster Fatah and to weaken and isolate Hamas. The United States armed and trained Fatah security forces to wrest control of Gaza's streets from Hamas militias, the aim being to prop up Abbas's rule. That was Plan B; Plan A had been last year's legislative election that Fatah was supposed to win. Is there a Plan C?

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/070617/25week.htm

[pelsar]

44. and now for the forgotten facts....

Whereas hamas won the election to represent the gazans in their parliament, the PA remained in charged of security...hamas militia was an illegal militia.

taking back the streets was in fact their lawful duty....hamas refused.....and had a coup.

[shira]

50. that's not forgotten....it was never considered

even if it were considered, some here would say it's okay that given the PA was in charge of security it was also okay for Hamas' illegal militia to function and impose their own authority apart from, or opposed to, the PA.

oh well, this kinda puts the lie to the nonsense that Hamas' political and military wings are separate and distinct from each other, doesn't it?

[shira]

51. dupe - nt

[bemildred]

52. Isn't control of the parliament supposed to give you control of the PA, and the security forces?

And didn't Fatah/Israel refuse them that? And wasn't THAT the illegal coup? And was it not Hamas' legal duty to try to defend the Constitutional order that Fatah continues to violate?

[pelsar]

55. nope....

the overall security was the PA's responsibility-security was a "federal" not based on the local elections (not fatah, not hamas)....for instance the europeans refused to support any opening of rafah to egypt unless the PA was in charge there.(not fatah and not hamas)

the parallel would be the democrats or republicans winning control of congress....and the" winner" putting in their own militia to control the US over the FBI/Presidency
____

hamas over threw the PA forces (which were obviously attached to fatah, but that not being relevant in this case) and that was illegal..just like hizballa occupying S.Lebanon with their own militia.....and of course you'll find support for that militia as well here in the DU.

the PA in fact had a responsibility to take back gaza, of which they failed miserably and left the gazans to live under the fanatic rule of hamas, another one of their failures

[bemildred]

57. Did the PA not have an obligation to recognize the results of the election?

Is it not like George W. Bush surrounding the Congress building and forbidding the newly elected Democrats to enter and take their seats? And then getting pissed off because the Democrats take up arms against him?

[pelsar]

58. it was recognized......as far as i remember

hamas controlled politically the local laws of gaza, i don't recall them being physically held from entering their parliament building....do you have a link?

[bemildred]

59. LOL.

Hamas Assumes Control of Parliament

---

There were few outward expressions of celebration Saturday either here or in Gaza, where much of the Hamas leadership remained after Israel refused to allow them to travel here for the ceremony. Only when Aziz Duwaik, a Hamas legislator, was elected to the post of parliament speaker did the meeting hall in Gaza erupt in raucous applause. Duwaik, an urban planning professor from Hebron, received 70 votes while 46 legislators abstained.

In person or by video, 116 of the 132 legislators attended the session. Fourteen members of parliament are in prison -- all but one in Israel -- while two others are wanted by Israeli authorities and would not risk traveling in the West Bank. When the prisoners' names were called during the opening roll call, members of the audience held up their framed photographs from the rows of metal chairs.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/18/AR2006021801571_2.html

The entire story is worth reading, as it provides perspective on how the current mess was initiated.

[pelsar]

60. you did read the article right?... tsk tsk tsk.... try again

i'll give you the part you obviously didnt understand

there were few outward expressions of celebration Saturday either here or in Gaza, where much of the Hamas leadership remained after Israel refused to allow them to travel here for the ceremony (here being the westbank)

i'll make it really simple: much of gaza leadership was "stuck in gaza"...where they were elected to take care of the gaza population.

so in fact they were not stopped physically from entering their parliament and governing by the PA.
_________

I'll remind you of your question: Did the PA not have an obligation to recognize the results of the election?


read the whole thing......as its clear that the PA did in fact accept hamas as the political party ruling gaza, as they declared they would not join the cabinet- a political move, not physically barring hamas from governing. Its clear you're wrong on this one

[bemildred]

61. Do you read what you write?

"i don't recall them being physically held from entering their parliament building"

[pelsar]

62. the PA.....or are you changing the subject? (you shouldnt do that)

the discussion was about the PA......and their acceptance of hamas and the hamas militia and who has responsibility for gaza

do i really have to go back to your posts and find the quotes?

[bemildred]

63. Wiki?

---

In January 2006, Hamas was successful in the Palestinian parliamentary elections, taking 76 of the 132 seats in the chamber, while the previous ruling Fatah party took 43.<15> After Hamas's election victory, violent and non-violent infighting arose between Hamas and Fatah.<16><17> Following the Battle of Gaza in June 2007, elected Hamas officials were ousted from their positions in the Palestinian National Authority government in the West Bank and replaced by rival Fatah members and independents. Hamas retained control of Gaza.<18><19> On June 18, 2007, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas (Fatah) issued a decree outlawing the Hamas militia.<20> Israel then immediately imposed an economic blockade on Gaza, and Hamas launched Qassam attacks on areas of Israel near its border with Gaza.<21> After the end of a six-month ceasefire the conflict escalated, and the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict began when Israel invaded Gaza in late December, 2008.<22> Israel withdrew its forces from Gaza in mid-January 2009,<23> but has maintained its blockade of Gaza's border and airspace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas

The sequence of events is covered under Mahmoud Abbas:

On 16 January 2006, Abbas said that he would not run for office again at the end of his current term.<21>

On 25 May, Abbas gave Hamas a ten-day deadline to accept the 1967 ceasefire lines.

On 2 June, Abbas again announced that if Hamas did not approve the prisoners' document—which calls for a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict according to the 1967 borders—within two days, he would present the initiative as a referendum. This deadline was subsequently extended until 10 June 2006. Hamas spokesmen stated that a change in their stance would not occur, and that Abbas is not constitutionally permitted to call a referendum, especially so soon after the January elections.

Abbas warned Hamas on 8 October 2006 that he would call new legislative elections if it does not accept a coalition government. To recognize Israel was a condition he has presented for a coalition. But it was not clear if Abbas had the power to call new elections.<20>

On 16 December 2006, Abbas called for new legislative elections, to bring an end to the parliamentary stalemate between Fatah and Hamas in forming a national coalition government.<22>
Abbas meets with then United States Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

On 17 March, 2007, a unity government was formed incorporating members of both Hamas and Fatah, with Ismail Haniyeh as Prime Minister and independent politicians taking many key portfolios.

On 14 June 2007, Abbas dissolved the Hamas-led unity government of Haniyeh, declared a state of emergency, and appointed Salam Fayyad in his place. This followed action by Hamas armed forces to take control of Palestinian Authority positions controlled by Fatah militias. The appointment of Fayyad to replace Haniyeh has been challenged as illegal, because under the Palestinian Basic Law, the president may dismiss a sitting prime minister, but may not appoint a replacement without the approval of the Palestinian Legislative Council. According to the law, until a new prime minister is thus appointed, the outgoing prime minister heads a caretaker government. Fayyad's appointment was never placed before, or approved by the Legislative Council.<23> For this reason, Haniyeh the Hamas prime minister has continued to operate in Gaza, and is recognised as by a large number of Palestinians as the legitimate acting prime minister. Anis al-Qasem, a constitutional lawyer who drafted the Basic Law, is among those who publicly declared Abbas' appointment of Fayyad to be illegal.<24>

On 18 June 2007, the European Union promised to resume direct aid to the Palestinian Authority, Abbas dissolved the National Security Council, a sticking point in the defunct unity government with Hamas.<25> That same day, the United States decided to end its fifteen-month embargo on the Palestinian Authority and resume aid, attempting to strengthen Abbas's West Bank government.<26> A day later, the Fatah Central Committee cut off all ties and dialogue with Hamas, pending the return of Gaza.<27>

On 2 March 2008, Abbas stated he was suspending peace talks with Israel, while Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert vowed to press on with the deadly military operations against militants who have been launching home-made rockets into southern Israel.<28>

On 20 May 2008, Abbas stated he would resign from his office if the current round of peace talks had not yielded an agreement in principle "within six months". He also stated that the current negotiations were, in effect, deadlocked: "So far, we have not reached an agreement on any issue. Any report indicating otherwise is simply not true."<29>

On 9 January 2009, Abbas term as president, at least as he was originally elected, ended. Abbas extended his term for another year, stating the Basic Law gave him the right to do so, so he could align the next presidential and parliamentary elections. Pointing to the Palestinian constitution, Hamas disputes the validity of this move, and considers Abbas' term to have ended, in which case Abdel Aziz Duwaik, Speaker of the Palestinian Legislative Council (or, since Israel has detained the speaker, his deputy Ahmad Bahar) has become acting president.<3><30><31>

In May 2009, he welcomed Pope Benedict XVI to the West Bank, who supported Abbas' goal of a Palestinian State. <32>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abbas

Here is the stuff on the "Gaza Coup":

---

Background
Main article: Fatah-Hamas conflict

Conflict between Fatah and Hamas had been simmering since Hamas won the legislature elections in January 2006. Upon taking power, Hamas offered Israel a one-year extension of the truce that was in force, but announced they would refuse to honor past agreements between the Palestinian Government and Israel, and as a result the US, Israel and the EU cut off aid to Hamas.<4>The U.S. and Israel attempted to undermine Hamas<5> while strengthening President Mahmoud Abbas's position and forcing Hamas from power. The U.S., Egypt, and Israel also armed and trained Fatah for a possible war with Hamas.<6><7><8><9>

The major conflict in Gaza surfaced in December 2006 and was centered on Hamas executive force attempts to control Gaza instead of the Palestinian police.<10> In the April 2008 issue of Vanity Fair the writer David Rose published an article, based on internal US documents, suggesting that the United States collaborated with the Palestinian Authority and Israel to attempt a putsch on Hamas, and Hamas preempted the putsch.<11>

Battle of Gaza

[bemildred]

64. Ah, I think I see where we disagree.

You think that since the Parliament sat on some occasions via video-teleconferencing, that means the results of the election were accepted.

I think that since the election was followed by an 18-month long civil war between the parties "security forces", culminating in the de facto division of the state, that means the results of the election were not accepted.

---

It is interesting to consider Abu Mazen's promise in May 2008 to resign in six months if he did not have an "agreement in principle" with the Israeli government.

It is also interesting to consider what will happen when his current "emergency" term ends in January. I tend to expect another "emergency extension" of his power, but we will see.

[bemildred]

31. Another one:

6/18-2007

---

In Ramallah, Fatah fighters raided Hamas offices, including radio and television stations, charities and schools. At one point, Fatah gunmen sought to seize Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council.

Fatah security chief Mohammed Dahlan, whose home in the Gaza Strip was ransacked, has arrived in Ramallah from Egypt. Officials said Dahlan would draft strategy against Hamas in wake of its takeover of the Gaza Strip.

On Saturday, Dahlan blamed Israel for the defeat of Fatah. He told the Saudi-owned Al Arabiya satellite channel that Fatah had not prepared for war against Hamas.

"Hamas doesn't separate between an Islamic state in Afghanistan and an Islamic state in Palestine," Dahlan said. "It is interested only in an Islamic state and not a nation."

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2007/me_palestinians_06_17.asp

=======================

And here is Wikipedia:

---

On January 26, 2006, Dahlan was narrowly elected to the Palestinian Legislative Council in the Palestinian legislative election of 2006 as a representative for Khan Younis. In January 2007, Dahlan took a tough stance against Hamas.<11>

On January 7, 2007, Dahlan hehld the biggest-ever rally of Fatah supporters in the Gaza strip<12><13>

In March 2007, despite objections from Hamas, Dahlan was appointed by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to lead the newly re-established Palestinian National Security Council, which is intended to oversee all security services in the Palestinian territories.<14><15>

Gaza infighting

In July 2007, Dahlan resigned from his post as national security adviser.<16> The resignation was little more than a formality, since Mahmoud Abbas had issued a decree dissolving his national security council immediately after the Hamas takeover of Gaza in mid-June 2007. Dahlan has been blamed by many in Fatah for the rapid collapse of their forces in Gaza in the face of a Hamas offensive that lasted less than a week. During the fighting Dahlan's house on the coast of Gaza, which many locals had seen as a sign of corruption by Fatah, was seized by Hamas militants and subsequently demolished. He and most of the other senior security commanders of the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority security forces were not in Gaza during the fighting, leading to charges that their men had been abandoned in the field.<17>

In the April 2008 edition of Vanity Fair it was revealed that after the 2006 elections Dahlan had been central in a US plot to remove the Hamas-led government from power. The Americans provided money and arms to Dahlan, trained his men and ordered him to carry out a military coup against Hamas in the Gaza Strip. However, the Hamas government forestalled the move and itself carried out an armed counter-coup.<18><19>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Dahlan

[oberliner]

34. Wikipedia?

Come on, now.

Here are some facts to consider:

There used to be Fatah members in positions of authority in Gaza.

Then the events of June, 2007 occurred.

After those events there were no longer any Fatah members in positions of authority in Gaza, only Hamas.

[bemildred]

37. Well, there was an election too, and Hamas was elected, and everybody ignored that.

Who executed a coup? The people that won the election, or the people that did not?

[oberliner]

40. When Republicans win more seats than Democrats they don't get to kick out all the Democrats

Winning the most seats in a legislative election does not give a part absolute power and the right to drive the leadership of the opposition party out of the region.

[bemildred]

42. When Republicans win more seats than Democrats,

the democrats accept the result, and they don't attempt to mount a violent takeover to reverse the election result, with outside help. And if they did, the Republicans would have a perfect right to put the coup down with whatever force was necessary.

[oberliner]

46. No argument here

I guess it's all about what one believes to be the truth of what took place in and around June 2007.

[azurnoir]

43. Bay of Pigs in Gaza {Haaretz}

For the president's guy to do his job, he would need an army. There were plenty of jobless people in the West Bank and Gaza who could be recruited, but arms are costly. One of the documents Vanity Fair publishes on its Web site, together with the article, contains a detailed calculation that adds up to more than $1.25 billion. That was a lot of money for Bush's foundering economy. Washington therefore tried to raise some of the funds in Arab states, including Saudi Arabia. In the meantime, Israel allowed Fatah's buildup, with weapons that arrived via Egypt.

Rose describes a very dirty war between Fatah and Hamas, including despicable acts of torture by both sides. Fatah failed, and Vanity Fair holds Bush accountable. The president should not have forced elections on the Palestinians, and he should not have relied on a guy like Dahlan. The thesis is that if the United States had not initiated the Palestinian civil war, maybe Hamas would not have seized control of Gaza.

The documents that were made available to the magazine are interesting not only because they recall other failed attempts to depose rulers, such as the Bay of Pigs incursion in 1961, aimed at toppling Fidel Castro. Their fascination derives mainly from the fact that U.S. involvement in the Middle East usually comes across as little more than an exchange of kisses between Condoleezza Rice and Tzipi Livni. What is really going on behind the stone walls of the U.S. consulate in Jerusalem is well hidden from the public eye. Only the intensive security presence around the building indicates that more is happening inside than the issuing of visas.

Quite a few individuals and bodies might be interested in this story, apart from Vanity Fair. The magazine loathes Bush on the basis of a leftist stance, but relies, among others, on a figure who attacks the president from the right: David Wurmser. A leading hawk, of the type who in Israel could be of interest to the Jewish Division of the Shin Bet security service, he was an adviser to Vice President Richard Cheney and resigned against the backdrop of the Hamas victory. He was against allowing the Palestinians to vote themselves a government in the first place.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/964058.html

[oberliner]

47. Another Vanity Fair fan

So many articles were written about that one Vanity Fair article.

[bemildred]

54. The article, if you read it, has lots of direct quotes from Mr Dahlan, that support it.

More to the point, there was a lot of coverage of the arming of the PA security guys under Dahlan, and of bickering about how well Israel would allow them to be armed, and of the dirty war between Fatah and Hamas going on in the leadup to the "coup". It was a coup only in that Fatah, with Israeli connivance, refused to recognize the results of the election, and then tried to reverse those results by force. The Vanity Fair piece did not just appear out of thin air.

[azurnoir]

27. Perhaps he's trying to change the context of "strongman"

:-)

[bemildred]

30. I think they left out "wannabe" nt