Indispensable anti-Piggism

[ForestsBeatBushes]

So what's the fuss? The supercilious EU citizenry's view of Israel as the greatest danger to world peace is nothing new. Polls showed the same three years ago when Ehud Barak headed our most compromising government. Labor, Likud, Left, Right, patriots, defeatists - it makes no difference, not in this 21st century, nor in the 20th, 14th, seventh or back in BCE days. It was always the same.

<snip>

That's why Jews were always hated and still are, even when they call themselves Israelis. That's why from time immemorial they found themselves in the eye of whatever storm was brewing. They may not have caused the tempest, but it always revolved around them. It still does.

Mankind, like Golding's marooned kids, creates its own demons, then hysterically seeks to accord them a tangible identity it can berate and bully, hate and harm - like Piggy, or like Jews, a.k.a. Zionists, Israelis or whatnot.

<snip>

It's not about issues or our misdeeds. It's time for some in our midst to stop trying to curry favor by joining the anti-Piggy clamor and snitching about the generic Piggy's trumped-up transgressions, his outlaw settlements and defiant self-defense. His anyway battered image shouldn't be additionally tarnished by in-house popularity-seekers.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull%26cid=1068099910160

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Or perhaps

You could address yourself to the topic at hand...

This is a sad but true article.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dudeness]

4. I agree..

this looks like a deliberate attempt to disrupt this forum..

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[edzontar]

14. Consider it "advice"

You may not INTEND to disrupt....but you have really gone out of your way to fill the list on the forum today, and could be considered "disruptive" in the general sense of the word--don't you think?

[ForestsBeatBushes]

17. not as disruptive as what happened to my

DU screen name

Consider it advice not to misuse anyone's screen name; of course, that would be addressed to everyone here; not anyone in particular.

[edzontar]

25. Huh?

What, did you get abbreviated or something?

If it was done by me, don't take it personally.

I have a crappy memory sometimes and tend to abbreviate in that Bostonian sort of way.

It's impossiboe to tell what any of this originally meant, anyway, with all the deletions...

This thread is looking pretty threadbare since I last stopped by....

[Darranar]

7. No one who voted in the poll, as far as we know...

believed that Israel is the greatest threat to world peace. Hence, that propaganda line is junk.

And even under Labor, settlement growth continued rapidly, and responses to bombings were very aggressive.

[guernica]

8. Israel is the greatest threat to world peace

I don't even think that's a debateable fact. You can think they are right or wrong but that's the flashpoint of this entire farcical War on Some Terrorists. It's the lynchpin.

[Darranar]

9. No, it's not...

first comes the good ol' USA and its corporations.

[guernica]

10. I would agree..

however the world doesn't respond to logic as much as emotion.

The symbolism of an invading power trying to rule the holy land or conversely a divinely ordained resurection of the nation of Israel ties in with both Muslim and Christian apocolyptic mythology. This is what people are dying over: Abrahamic fairy tales and they are dying over them in Afghanistan, Iraq, this is what it's all about to a vast portion of Americans, Israelis and Muslims worldwide.

[Darranar]

11. That's not true in the slightest...

Bush's (devestating, immoral, and unjust, but that's not the point) wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are not about Israel; they're about what will most benefit American corporate power and imperialistic desires (which basically go hand in hand; note Iraq war).

US aid to the GOI (a commonly used abbreviation on this forum for Government of Israel) is a tool to stregthen "our only ally in the Middle East" (the only one that has consistently been willing to back American imperialism in other countries in the region and not simply in their own).

As i've said before, Israel is not the centerpoint of US foreign policy, not even in the Mideast. Israel is a piece of it, but not the motivation behind it.

[guernica]

12. I think you are right

I think most American Christians as well the Islamic world would think you were wrong. Don't discount romanticism especially when it intersects with money.

[Darranar]

13. That's all part of propaganda...

though a few far more significant pieces of junk to justify these stupid wars:

"We're fighting a war on terror"

"They have weapons of mass destruction/are harboring terrorists/are fighting against our freedom/hate us"

etc.

Fundamentalist beliefs like the ones you outlined above are not as effective as they once were.

And the people of the Islamic world have very little power; that's a major reason that the Mideast is in such a bad state. Of course, Bush's "promotion of freedom and democracy" will accomplish absolutely nothing worthwhile, especially since he wasn't elected and is doing everything he can to destroy our civil liberties under the guise of "security".

[The Magistrate]

15. Mr. Guernica Does Have A Point, My Friend

Why the mass thinks it moves is not always the real reason. Appeal to deep emotion is necessary for mass movement, and the various religious fractures do form a ready tool. It is hard to see any real reason for the clamor over the Israel v. Palestine imbroglio to reach either the pitch, or the scale it does, on the simple facts of the matter. If it were not for the various levels of sacredness felt by many towards the area, it seems likely the problem would have been solved, or people learned to live with it undisturbed, long since.

[Darranar]

16. He has a point; I agree with you there...

religion is indeed part of the justification used by many self-serving leaders for their aggressive or unwise tactics, even if it is not used openly. It is a common theme among governments.

However, the statement that "Israel is the greatest threat to world peace" was backed up by guernica by the claim that our nation is in Iraq due to religious convinctions held by some concerning the region of Israel/Palestine (if I am misunderstanding you, please correct me, guernica). That is going too far, in my opinion; religion (and this was most certainly acknowledged by guernica) was not the driving motivation behind the Iraq war; greed was, though I know we still disagree about whether it was primarily greed for oil or greed for political gain.

The basis for support of the Iraq war seems not to be the religious elements associated with the region, but rather lies spread by Bush and his administration concerning the presence of weapons of mass destruction and ties between the Baathists and the Islamic fundamentalists. These claims, too, do appeal to a deep emotion; fear is the single most effective weapon for propagandists.

[Classical_Liberal]

18. Then how come democrats unanimously backed a resolution

saying Iraq was justified because it helped Israel. How come we had a resolution the other day that unanimously backed censorship of professors who object to the Sharon government?

[Darranar]

19. The first...

said that the war in Iraq IMPROVED the security of Israel - not that it helped the security of Israel.

The second resolution is far more general then that.

[Classical_Liberal]

21. 1)The idea that improved the security of israel

is the likud party line. Furthermore they have been calling us antisemites for months for suggesting it was done for Israel and this bill would seem to confirm it.

2)ARe you seriously going to deny the second bill was designed to censor pro-palestinian professors?

I don't call aipac, the jewish lobby, or the proisreal lobby, because they don't represent either group. They have become a prolikud lobby, and they are creating a very dangerous situation in the middle east. They are the reason the dems are cowards who voted for this unconstitutional law and they are why we went into Iraq. What good does it do to deny it.

[Darranar]

22. No, the second resolution was simply to shut down criticism...

nothing new. Being pro-Palestinian is certainly part of that, but not the whole story.

[Classical_Liberal]

23. I can't be so laid back about this unconstitutional atrocity

I hope the professors take this to court as soon as possible. I happen to believe it is the lynch pin motive. I have seen Daniel Pipes's website.

[Darranar]

24. How is it unconsitutional?

Is it stupid? Yes.

Is it moral? No.

Do I support it? Certainly not.

But these are government funds. It is not a violation of any rights to deny those funds to someone who the government disapproves of. We may disagree about the reasons, but it is the government's money; they are in control.

[Classical_Liberal]

20. I won't register with jpost, because I am not their market nitch

and I don't want to support them in any way. I will just respond to what is posted. It isn't antisemitism just because they claim it is. Jews are capable of error. They are also capable of bigotry. They aren't perfect. It is bigoted to suggest that they get special consideration that I wouldn't give an Africanner.