Let's face the facts, Israel is a semi-theocracy - Gideon Levy

[Scurrilous]

<snip>

"The storm over remarks made by Justice Minister Yaakov Neeman is in many respects a tempest in a teapot, which has for a long time taken on holier aspects than it seems. Neeman wants Torah law, or in other words, he wants Israel to be a country governed by Jewish religious law, halakha. In any event, Israel is already a semi-theocracy. The Israelis who were frightened by the minister's remarks and who love viewing their country as liberal, Western and secular are forgetting that our life here is more religious, traditional and halakhic than we are prepared to admit.

Between Stockholm and Tehran, Israel of 2009 is much closer to Tehran. From birth to death, from circumcision to funeral, from the establishment of the state to the establishment of the last of the illegal outposts in the West Bank - we are operating in the shadow of the commandments of religion. We should be honest with ourselves and admit it already: The country is too religious. Neeman just wanted to take this one step further, something one can and must come out against; but the religious-nationalist campaign began a long time ago, and it is still going strong.

It begins, of course, with the fact of our presence here. Among other things, it is based on theological reasoning. Abraham the Patriarch was here, so we are, too. He bought the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, so we, too, are in Palestinian Hebron. People who are entirely secular also cite religious and biblical explanations for the connection between the Jewish people and the Land of Israel. We can't even say whether Judaism is a religion or a nationality - and in any event, there is no other country in the Western world where religion has its holy iron grip on the state as it does in Israel.

We don't need Neeman. There are no civil marriages or divorces, and there are almost no secular funerals. The Law of Return and the definition of who is a Jew - the most fundamental and significant of Israeli precepts - are based on halakha, even without our religious justice minister."

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[MNDemNY]

1. semi??

:shrug:

[Jim Sagle]

2. Levy is a venomous, self-hating wack job.

[Violet_Crumble]

3. You didn't bother reading the article before frothing at the mouth...n/t

[Jim Sagle]

5. So says the Queen of I/P.

[Violet_Crumble]

8. If you have read it, then try explaining why you said that about him...

Unlike you, he's an Israeli, and despite the idiocy of some Americans who act as though any criticism of Israel is some sort of treason or antisemitism, he's entitled to criticise his own country...

[Jim Sagle]

11. He's entitled to say what he wants.

[Crunchy Frog]

6. I'm coming to really appreciate your endorsements

and see them as a guide to which people are worth reading/listening to. Please keep on with the helpful feedback. :)

[Jim Sagle]

7. I do what I can.

;)

[Meshuga]

4. American Jewish community should put pressure for Israel to be a Jewish state

As opposed to an "orthodox Jewish state". Israel, as a Jewish state, has to embrace all different movements withing Judaism otherwise it is not a Jewish state since it doesn't provide freedom to all Jews and it will eventually become an Orthodox theocracy.

The non-orthodox movements in America (which probably contains the worldwide majority of religious Jews) need to do a better job pressuring the orthodox establishment that makes these ridiculous laws that smother secular Jews and does not provide religious freedom to non-Orthodox movements.

Now, as far as Jews choosing to celebrate Passover, having mezzos at home, fasting on Tom Kippar, etc. that is a Jewish thing to do whether you are a God believing Jew or not. There are things called Jewish matzot (if you are a believer) and Jewish folkways (if you are not a believer or not a conventional believer). I don't know what the fact that Jews (secular or not) choose to follow Jewish folkways has anything to do with Israel being a theocracy or accepting that they have to be inconvenienced by some ultra-Orthodox nut who won't let them open their business on the sabbath.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. Why can't the Israeli govt force that change to happen?

The power that was given to the Orthodox movement when Israel was created was one of expediency to get support for the state, at least that's my understanding of it, but now Israel's well and truly settled in and not going anywhere, what's to stop the Israeli govt taking the laws that the religious ones control away from them and either making them totally secular laws or being fair and sharing the power with the Reform movement and others that have been left out in the cold?

[Meshuga]

12. The problem is the agreement back in the declaration of independence in 1948...

...gives the orthodox Chief Rabbinate the authority over marriage, funeral, conversion status, kashrut, the sabbath, and all religious affairs for the Jewish community. This enables them to say what is valid or not thus enabling Israeli Government discrimination against non-Orthodox branches of Judaism. Non-orthodox movements (Reform, Conservative, Reconstructionist) have their well established centers here in America so the major pushes and minor victories for the non-Orthodox in Israel are only recent. Some examples are minor change to the law of return to accept non-Orthodox converts and the recognition of the Reform Yozma congregation. There is now a push for the state to recognize Rabbi Miri gold who is not only a Reform rabbi but a female rabbi. But that has been dragging.

The fact is that Judaism broke into different groups as a result of Jewish emancipation. The main difference between these groups being their reaction to what would make Judaism survive now that Jews were allowed to become full citizens of their respective countries. Non-orthodox have their way of achieving this with movements that, for example, are based on how to live a meaningful Jewish life and be fully American. The orthodox have their own way through focusing on Hallakhah to a point that it became even more rigid. The orthodox have so much influence in Israel that the secular believes that the Orthodox have the proper way of keeping Judaism alive since the orthodox are hallakhic. But, in my opinion, the orthodox can only achieve that if they turn Israel into a huge ghetto.

The liberal movements in America are proof that Judaism can flourish and survive in an emancipated society. If Israel wants to continue receiving support from the non-orthodox world then it will have to act a Jewish state that represents all Jews (as opposed to an Orthodox Jewish state). Not to mention that religious pluralism and freedom should be the hallmarks of the only Jewish and democratic state.

[eyl]

10. For starters

very little of what Levy describes - even if he's accurate - would make Israel a theocracy, with the exception of the personal status laws* - a religious populace (and to a large degree things like the observance of the Passover seder and even fasting on Yom Kippur fall at least as much in the realm of tradition than in religion) does not equal a theocracy. If anyhting, Israeli law is based more on British (and Turkish, to a degree) law than on halakha.

And as far as not deciding whether "Jew" is a religion or a nationality; I'm sorry to burst Levy's apparent desire for neatness, but it's both.

*Which, I might note, don't make a Jewish theocracy anyway, since eg Muslims are subject to Islamic law in the matter

[Meshuga]

13. I would think that There is "Jewish" and there is "Judaism"

or "Judaisms" if we consider all the Jewish movements. So "Jew" is definitely not a religion. In contrast, Judaism is a religion. A Jew is a person born Jewish or a person who went through the process of becoming Jewish. However, the person can be Jewish and not embrace Judaism.

But Judaism has a very important peoplehood component where we embrace our heritage whether there is belief involved or not. So I definitely agree with you in questioning Gideon Levy since following kasrut, being shomer shabbos, fasting on Yom Kippur, etc. does not really mean the person is doing this for belief or religion but instead mean that the person is doing this for the sake of identity or continuity.

[MisterP]

14. but then again, that view of a liberal, secular, Western beachhead facing bloodthirsty fundies

is the other half of Israeli rightism

it's a religious crusade AND a defensive war against nasty expansionist Muslims (sounds a little Iraqi to my ears...)