Son of shooting victim: Revenge is not for Jews

[IndianaGreen]

Last update - 16:23 25/12/2009

Son of shooting victim: Revenge is not for Jews

By Chaim Levinson, Avi Issacharoff and Anshel Pfeffer

Hundreds of mourners gathered in Jerusalem on Friday morning to bury Rabbi Meir Hai, a father of seven who was shot dead by Palestinians near his home in the West Bank a day before.

In eulogizing his father, Hai's 16-year-old son Eliyahu urged mourners not to consider seeking revenge for the attack. "The difference between us and them is that we are people, Jews, holy," he said.

Hai, a resident of the West Bank settlement Shavei Shomron, was killed in a shooting attack on a road near his home. He was laid to rest on Jerusalem's Mount of Olives. The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades and the Islamic Jihad have both claimed responsibility for the attack.

Hai, a 40-year-old teacher and father of seven, was killed when militants opened fire at his car on the road between Shavei Shomron and the nearby settlement Einav in the West Bank. He was alone in his car.

An IDF officer said that in the past week a roadblocks had been removed on the road Hai was driving on, about 150 meters from where he was shot.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1137631.html

Earlier thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x296579

On edit. another report:

With heartbreaking sobs, the son said, "Father, you know that two years ago I decided not to be religious, that this way is not for me, that I don't want to observe the Sabbath, don't want side-locks. I left everything behind, I said 'I don’t want this.' I know that I tore you apart then, we didn't talk to each other and I wanted to say to you, 'Father, I love you.'

"In the past few weeks I felt it, I had a feeling that something was going to happen. I wanted to hug you. I know that I hurt you in your life. I want to ask for your forgiveness."

The son continued to cry painfully, "Father, father. God gave and God took away. What would we do without faith, father? I managed to spend 16 years of eternity with you. Everyone spoke about how special you were. You were with us; you were very connected to us. We knew that our father is always with us, at any situation.

"You all came, the youth, to see where father was murdered yesterday. I said, God, there are no such things. This youth is with us in good times and in bad. You are the best youth there is. I salute you, salute the army. Continue father's way. Father wanted faith, Torah studying and prayer."

Shavei Shomron's rabbi, Yehoshua Schmidt, also eulogized Hai. "You were full of love. You had unusual powers. Your love of the Torah. You taught the children Torah which even adults don’t know. You were filled with the love of Torah. Your liveliness, you shined to everyone around you.

"God Almighty, how could this happen? Who will fill in for you? How could the hand of evil people cut off this thing? How are Arabs better than Jews? Rabbi Meir, you are filled with purity, the love of Torah. You were killed for the sanctification of God's name."

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3825118,00.html

[proteus_lives]

1. I wish I could give his son a hug.

The relationships between father and son can be difficult and complex. I speak from personal experience.

[Violet_Crumble]

2. The fact he's a racist doesn't bother you at all?

Did you read what he said? I doubt you'd feel inclined to hug someone who said that Jews weren't people, so why get all warm and fuzzy over someone who thinks Palestinians aren't people?

And another thing - You never ever say you want to hug the children of Palestinians who have been killed by Israelis, but now you want to hug a racist? How does that work?

[proteus_lives]

3. I don't think he's racist. I think he's sad and angry.

You may want to fly over there and spit on his father's coffin but whatever.

You ignored the fact that he's calling for an end to the cycle and asking people not to avenge his father.

"You never ever say you want to hug the children of Palestinians who have been killed by Israelis, but now you want to hug a racist? How does that work?"

And you're a font of remorse for the Israelis killed by Palestinians? Is DU? I think not. The majority of the sympathy and empathy on this site is reserved for Palestinians alone.

I'm proudly pro-Israel and that doesn't mean pro-violence or pro-settlers. I felt emotion for boy who lost his father. I hope that people will listen to him and not attack Palestinians.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. He's a racist. How is what he said not racism?

"The difference between us and them is that we are people, Jews, holy," That's racism. Anyone who doesn't agree has some serious issues themselves...

Where the fuck do you conjure up me wanting to spit on his fathers grave? Stop making up complete crap like that, and stick to what gets said, or I might have to respond in kind with 'don't let me stop you humping the leg of a racist settler'...

You didn't answer my question about yr apparent double standards. Instead you launched into some silly attack on me (btw, I don't feel remorse for any deaths because I actually know what remorse means). And either yr incapable of reading or just being plain dishonest if yr claiming I haven't shown sympathy for Israelis, because I have, which is something you have NEVER done when it comes to Palestinians...

[proteus_lives]

5. Bullshit.

I have shown sympathy for Palestinians. I have a lot of sympathy for the citizens and the innocent harmed in the I/P conflict, on both sides.

I don't think he's racist because he's fucking asking people to not respond with violence. His father's dead, murdered. He's angry, sad and feeling guilty because he was separated from his father's life. So yeah, I think he should get a pass on the comment. Is it ill-phrased to a dispassionate outside observer? Yeah. We're not him and we're not the crowd he's addressing. So just continue to ignore his call for non-violence.

I never claimed you never showed sympathy for Israelis, it's just that you're pro-Palestinian and so is most of DU. You're the one making absolute claims.

Note: Have you even considered the people he's addressing and why he would say that to them?

[Violet_Crumble]

6. I posted the racist comment. That he asked people not to attack Palestinians doesn't give him a pass

The comment was bigoted and ugly and it doesn't take a 'dispassionate outside observer' to notice that, it's something that's abundantly clear to anyone who looks at what was said. And he really must be blind or deaf if he thinks that Jews don't do revenge. Revenge isn't immune from any religion or ethnic group. Here's what I've got to say about that particular call to 'non-violence' - wouldn't it be much better if he hadn't dehumanised Palestinians in asking people not to go out and do retaliation on innocent Palestinians that were uninvolved in the murder?

Let's hope he realises that being part of a violent occupation and theft of land isn't in any way a message of non-violence and he and his siblings return to Israel...

[proteus_lives]

8. You're still refusing to see.

He's talking to people who for the most part dislike or hate Palestinians, he doesn't want them break any skulls after the funereal. So he says what he knows/hopes will calm them down. The guy murdered was a rabbi, his death could spiral into further violence.

I don't think you understood what he was trying to do.

[Violet_Crumble]

9. No, I can see that. But I detest the racism there as well... n/t

[proteus_lives]

11. I understand that.

It's not a remark I would have made in my situation.

But I don't think it's cut and dry. A kid at his father's funeral? Yeah, I'll give him a pass on the words because a young male in that area is choosing non-violence. I hope all the young males on both sides eventually make that decision.

[Violet_Crumble]

12. There are a lot of bereaved family members on both sides doing that...

'It is, as far as we know, a world precedent that bereaved families, victims from both sides, embark on a joint reconciliation mission while the conflict is still active.
Consisting of several hundreds of bereaved families, half Palestinian and half Israeli, The Families Forum has played a crucial role since its inception in 1995, in spearheading a reconciliation process between Israelis and Palestinians. The Forum members have all lost immediate family members due to the violence in the region.'

http://www.theparentscircle.org/about.asp

[proteus_lives]

13. I'm glad that group exists.

It gives hope for a better future.

[LeftishBrit]

14. Thanks for posting that; the Parents Circle is a great organization

[eyl]

16. For fairness' sake, I feel compelled to point out

that there might be a subtlety lost in translation here - he didn't necessarily say Palestinians aren't people (though the "we are holy" part is objectionable on its own).

What he said, in Hebrew, was "anahnu bnei adam" - literaly, "we are people" or "we are humans". However, in Israeli Hebrewe the phrase bnei adam does not necessarily mean people literally - it can also refer to someone who's behaving properly. For example, the phrase "ti'hye ben adam" - literally, "be a human being" - means something like "show some compassion" (often used towards someone you're trying to wheedle a favor from, e.g. the policeman who's writing you a ticket), rather than implying the object is not human.

[IndianaGreen]

17. Thank you for clarifying that

[LeftishBrit]

7. Poor boy.

As regards the racism in the comment: yes, in a sense it's there, but there is also a giant step forward. "We must show that we are better than our enemies by not seeking revenge" is certainly not yet "We are all equal human beings; neither side is better; we must make peace and live in harmony". But it is LIGHT YEARS ahead of "We must crush and kill our enemy".

If peace is to be achieved in this conflict - we cannot expect immediate perfection and that goes for both sides. We cannot postpone peace until all Israelis regard Palestinians as their family and apologize for the creation of the state of Israel. We cannot postpone peace until all Palestinians regard Israelis as their family and think that the creation of the state of Israel was a wonderful thing. An end to hostilities, together with a grudging mutual acceptance of the compromises inherent in a two-state solution, may be just a first step - but it would be a giant first step.

In any case, this goes beyond politics. Even if the boy was known to be an extreme right-winger, he is an adolescent who has just lost the father with whom he had obviously had an ambivalent relationship - usually an even worse psychological trauma than losing a parent with whom you had a totally positive relationship, because of all the guilt that is mixed in. I wish him all the best in recovering from the trauma, as I would anyone in such a position.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. How can racism be there 'in a sense'? Sounds like it's being minimised...

I think you need to reread what was said as it wasn't 'we must show that we are better than our enemies by not seeking revenge' (which isn't racism), but was a statement denying the humanity of Palestinians. It's not light years ahead of anything, as there's no sliding scale of acceptability when it comes to racism...

I also wish him all the best in recovering and hope he gets the help he needs by returning to Israel...

[Shaktimaan]

15. So what if he's racist?

There are racist people out there. Especially wherever there's a long-standing war split down ethnic lines. The fact that this guy is a settler and holds these extremist views makes his statement all the more commendable IMO. These are the people that are going to be participating in violence against Palestinians. If more of them were like him then we'd be better off.

Sure, if more of them weren't racist to begin with then we'd be even better off. But I don't see that happening anytime soon. Judging this guy against unrealistic benchmarks isn't very helpful.

Look at it this way. Considering that this guy doesn't even consider Palestinians people, isn't it MORE impressive that he still counsels peace?

(No? I didn't think so.)