‘Sinner’ singer given 39 lashes by rabbis

[ConsAreLiars]

A singer who performed in front of a “mixed audience” of men and women was lashed 39 times to make him “repent,” after a ruling by a self-described rabbinic court on Wednesday.

Rabbi Amnon Yitzhak, founder of the Shofar organization aimed at bringing Jews “back to religion” (hazara betshuva), has made it his recent mission to fight against musical performances for both men and women.

A bit more at: http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=186154

Just a reminder that fear-driven wars and ethnic and religious conflicts and those who provoke them and invoke them in the service of far more mercenary objectives also foster and feed that same dynamic within their own societies.

People (sane ones) in the US certainly can see that here.

When the IDF supported Hamas as as a fundie opposition group that would weaken the secular PLO, it also created conditions in which fundie crazies would also gain more power within Israel.

Same as the US, beginning with Carter, did in Afghanistan. And the more publicized Cheney-Bush atrocities did to both Iraq and the US.

It was a totally predictable, and, assuming the Israeli governments were not completely ignorant and stupid, it was the intended result. Now the insane kill-em-all cultists control much of both policy and public opinion. This serves the long term objectives quite well.

Good, effective work. Well, not "good" since murdering and driving people into exile and massacres and stealing property and collective punishment are not anything any normal person regard as "good." But effective. And intended. And desired.

[no_hypocrisy]

1. The Shofar organization aimed at bringing Jews “back to religion”

Whipping people for the "sin" of comingling the genders is not going to motivate a lot of people to return to that kind of Judaism.

[RandomThoughts]

2. That is just to silly to comment on.

Note, I personally think most punishments are done by free will actions of people.

And letting someone say if you have been punished enough or not, is silly, and it would be silly for someone to claim to be able to do that.


Two side notes, I am still due financing for beer and travel.

And

Dread Pirate 'Roberts'. Still Standing :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9tAKLTktY0

Four fingers on the sternum. Remember those posts :)



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

[Shaktimaan]

3. Disregarding the actual OP for the moment...

I think your commentary is insane.

First of all, the IDF did not actually support Hamas, despite it being a popular idea here. But to the extent that they didn't oppose Hamas, your reasoning just doesn't apply. You really think that Israel chose to back fundamentalist Muslims in the hopes that doing so would foster religious fundamentalism within its own country? And this was done with the long term goal in mind to increase friction in the conflict and drive a religion-based, home-grown desire to disenfranchise the Palestinians to a far greater degree than the public would previously support?

And your factual basis for this is...? Anything?

Do you have any evidence for even the provable bits of what you wrote here? Like that "insane kill-em-all cultists control much of both policy and public opinion" in Israel? If that's the case then how would you explain policies like Oslo or the Gaza pullout or the settlement freeze; all were things that the far right viciously opposed.

I am constantly amazed at the level of insanity that people will casually evoke in their efforts to demonize Israel.

[ConsAreLiars]

4. Willful ignorance is always needed by cultist ideologues.

Indeed Israel supported and encouraged Hamas' early growth in an effort to undermine the secular Fatah movement of Yasser Arafat.<2> According to UPI, Israel supported Hamas starting in the late 1970s as a "counterbalance to the Palestine Liberation Organization".<3> At that time, Hamas's focus was on "religious and social work". The grassroots movement concentrated on social issues such as exposing corruption, administration of waqf (trusts) and organizing community projects.

# ^ (English)/(French)"Hamas is a creation of Mossad (English translation)". L'Humanité. Summer 2002. http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html. Retrieved 2006-05-02. ; French original version: "Hamas, le produit du Mossad". L'Humanité. December 14, 2001. http://www.humanite.fr/journal/2001-12-14/2001-12-14-255050. Retrieved 2006-05-03.
# ^ a b c Les très secrètes 'relations' Israël-Hamas (The very secret Israel-Hamas 'relations'), Le Canard Enchaîné, February 1, 2006 (issue n°4449) (French)
# ^ "Hamas history tied to Israel", United Press Internationalhttp://www.upi.com/Security_Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis_Hamas_history_tied_to_Israel/UPI-82721024445587/print/, June 18, 2002
# ^ "Olmert accuses Netanyahu of creating Hamas". http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1170359844280&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull.

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Hamas

Promoting and inciting (encouraged) crazy zealot fear-hater against (encouraged) crazy zealot fear-hater is the oldest game power mongers ever learned.

I guess I'll put you down as one who believes the leaderships of the Israeli government were all hapless, clueless, ignorant dumbasses who had no idea about what their actions would cause.

[Shaktimaan]

5. Those links don't work.

But when I looked stuff up on my own, the most I could find was some vague accusations that Israel may have funded Hamas, all of them from informationclearinghouse type sites. They also claimed that Mossad was behind the aid to Hamas, which on its face seems suspicious to me since Mossad doesn't work within the OPT. The Shabak does.

At any rate, I think that Israel supported a lot of these grassroots religious groups in the sense that they did not actively try to destroy them. For the obvious reason, that they might provide a counterbalance to the then violent, virulently anti-zionist PLO. According to the quote you posted here, "At that time, Hamas's focus was on "religious and social work". The grassroots movement concentrated on social issues such as exposing corruption, administration of waqf (trusts) and organizing community projects." This does not strike me as particularly crazy, nor does it appear to resemble the Hamas of today. Just as Fatah today is very different than it was in the 70's. I don't see how you think anyone back then could have anticipated the transformations that either group has undergone.

Now, not only do I disagree that this was part of a planned operation where Israel anticipated and counted on Hamas becoming a hardcore, fundamentalist terror group that would eventually scuttle peace negotiations with a tamed, internationally legit Fatah, but I especially disagree that religious fundamentalists control a great deal of policy and public opinion.

The middle east is notoriously hard to predict policy in. That you think the current events of today were engineered down to great detail by policy-makers in Israel 30 years ago is pretty astonishing. You believe that the upper echelon of Israel's government actually planned out our current state of affairs and put the gears into motion by the single simple act of allowing some small religious groups to grow unmolested by the IDF.

That's like saying that Reagan planned 9/11 by giving arms to the mujadeen in Afghanistan.

[Chulanowa]

9. That's why we have libraries

On contentious topics like this, where one side is vastly better-funded and better-supported than the other, your google search just isn't going to give you an even mix of info. You're going to get whoever has the most websites, the most editorialists, and whoever can afford to pay google to bump their slot.

Hamas was funded by Israel prior to the Second Intifada, with the goal of undermining the secular PLO. That's simply a part of history. it did blow up in Israel's face, and they naturally stopped funding it after that, but yeah, Israeli shekels are what got Hamas so entrenched as a community organization in the Territories.

And no, policy is not difficult to predict in the middle east. It's not some magical place where logic and common sense don't actually work.
The trouble is the Us and Israel absolutely refuse to realize you can't have your cake and eat it, too. You can't have peace with Palestinians and steal their land. You can't have a stable Iraq and plunder the country at gunpoint. You can't have a democratic Iran and stage a coup against their democratically-elected leaders. You can't have a liberalized Saudi Arabia and keep giving them the money for their repression. You can't decry a Baath dictator for his slaughter of civilians when you gave him the weapons and green light to do so.

Middle east policy is not complicated. It's just that the people making policy intentionally make the stupidest decisions possible.

[Shaktimaan]

12. Then by all means, recommend a book.

But to merely assert something without offering any evidence beyond the accusation that well-funded entities have paid off Google to keep the real information buried isn't very convincing. This is an internet forum after all. People usually give links to support their statements. Not admonishments to go to a library because Google is corrupt. Besides, I don't think that's how Google works anyway.

And no, policy is not difficult to predict in the middle east. It's not some magical place where logic and common sense don't actually work.

No, not magical. It's a complex place where the effects of one action can be far reaching and influential in ways that aren't always foreseen or intended. Middle East policy may seem simple to you, but you are also using extremely simplified generalities as examples. Within those general statements are more complex worlds. For instance, off the top of my head... you said, "You can't have peace with Palestinians and steal their land." So then would it stand to reason that if you began returning their land then the Palestinians would begin moving towards peace? Or would it possibly bring greater violence? Well, we know that Hamas opposes the two state solution, and any movement towards that end result is something that they'll try and scuttle as best they can. Which is why their initial reaction to the signing of the Oslo Accords was to greatly ramp up terrorism. And why their reaction to the current news of talks brought about the shooting of four civilians.

Middle east policy is not complicated. It's just that the people making policy intentionally make the stupidest decisions possible.

No, Mid East policy IS complicated. There often aren't obvious answers to problems and the options available are sometimes all unpleasant. Decisions might seem stupid to you after years of hindsight. But had a different choice been made you still have no idea where that would have led us to either. It's easy to say, "We shouldn't have supported the coup in Iran in the 50's. Then things would be better in Iran now." But the reality is that you have no idea what Iran would look like today if we hadn't. No one does. Remember, the Iranian Revolution looked like a great idea to a good many people who were then shot upon its victory for their efforts. I very much doubt they were acting intentionally stupid.

I look forward to your library recommendation regarding Hamas and Mossad's funding.

[Chulanowa]

14. Who said anything about burying information?

I said they pay to put their own sites on top. It's a pretty standard practice for search engines. Moreso when you're talking about shopping outlets, but still

As for specific books, try "A History of the Arab Peoples" or "The Great War for Civilisation." I'm certain there are many more, but those are two that are on my shelves.

"So then would it stand to reason that if you began returning their land then the Palestinians would begin moving towards peace? Or would it possibly bring greater violence?"

You're really going to use this argument, huh? Well, this is pretty simple, too. If there's a 50/50 percent split between peace and continued violence if Israel returns Palestinian land, then it's still better than the 100% chance of violence while Israel maintains its occupation. And further, your argument is based on a "what if?" This is not a good foundation for any position. You're using an unfounded hypothetical to excuse wrongdoing.

That is stupid.

"But the reality is that you have no idea what Iran would look like today if we hadn't. No one does."

Not with crystal clarity. However, the chain of cause and effect is easy enough to follow. I understand that, being a supporter of Israel, you don't believe in such voodoo. I suppose you'll just have to take my word on it that overthrowing Mossadegh led quite directly to the Iranian Revolution.

[Shaktimaan]

15. I don't think you're understanding.

You're really going to use this argument, huh? Well, this is pretty simple, too. If there's a 50/50 percent split between peace and continued violence if Israel returns Palestinian land, then it's still better than the 100% chance of violence while Israel maintains its occupation.

But that's not what I asked. You stated that middle east policy isn't complicated and is easy to predict. So I am asking you what would happen if Israel began to return land to the Palestinians... would it foster less violence, more violence or the same amount of violence? Keeping all of the land will certainly result in violence, but if giving it back makes things worse then it is something that would be great to know beforehand.

My example was Oslo, where signing a peace agreement made terrorism worse. Gaza is another example. Giving back land empowered Hamas and resulted in greater violence all around. So I am asking you now, if Bibi gave back the entire west bank tomorrow, but kept all of east jerusalem for the time being, would that have a net positive or negative results for the peace process over the next year? Would terrorism increase or decrease?

And further, your argument is based on a "what if?"

Of course. We are predicting policy... that's the only way to do it.

You're using an unfounded hypothetical to excuse wrongdoing.

I think you're having a different discussion than I am. I am not advocating or disparaging any specific policy. I am saying that middle east policy is extremely complex and accurately predicting the ultimate results of even the most straightforward actions is basically impossible. Since you can't control all (or even many) of the variables it becomes very difficult to say what any given action's results will be, especially over increasing periods of time.

Not with crystal clarity. However, the chain of cause and effect is easy enough to follow. I understand that, being a supporter of Israel, you don't believe in such voodoo.

Forget about crystal clarity. You have ABSOLUTELY. NO. FREAKING. IDEA. AT. ALL. Really. Like, none whatsoever. Just because you can look at the past and deduce what events had what effects, doesn't mean that you can say what would have occurred if you traveled back in time and changed something. All you know is what happened. That doesn't mean you have any greater insight into what WOULD HAVE happened had things had been done differently.

I suppose you'll just have to take my word on it that overthrowing Mossadegh led quite directly to the Iranian Revolution.

Well duh. Big deal. Let's say you went back in time and prevented the coup and Mossadegh was elected. Does that give you any information about what Iran 50 years later would have looked like? Of course not. You guess is as good as mine. It's a "what if" like you decried earlier. You can't even say if it would have been better or worse than the Iran we have now.

Imagine that the Iranian Revolution had failed and the Shah was never deposed. All of his allies that were executed post-revolution would have probably been sitting around, heavily lamenting the coup's failure, certain that a great chance for a democratic Iran had just slipped through their fingers. They would be sad, because they have no way of knowing that the coup's failure saved their lives (and possibly their country from something way worse than the Shah.)

Lastly... I think it's really funny that you think that predicting Mid East policy and events is such a piece of cake. Yet you think that I'm unsophisticated because I think it's voodoo, (which isn't true at all. Voodoo takes skill and an education. Plus it's awesomely cool. What you're doing requires a LACK of anything deeper than a thin veneer of education about the subject, and is not cool at all. That you think all of this stuff is simple and easy strikes me as way scarier than voodoo.)

---------

As for specific books, try "A History of the Arab Peoples" or "The Great War for Civilisation." I'm certain there are many more, but those are two that are on my shelves.

And they BOTH discuss how Israel funded Hamas in it's nascent years?! Really? Because honestly I have never heard it from a really legit source yet. I'd be very interested to see those. (I most likely would anyway though.)

[ConsAreLiars]

13. Here's help

First link works, although the French original is now obsolete. Some from it:

Hamas is a Creation of Mossad
by Hassane Zerouky

Global Outlook, No 2, Summer 2002
www.globalresearch.ca 23 March 2004

The URL of this article is: http://globalresearch.ca/articles/ZER403A.html

Thanks to the Mossad, Israel's "Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks", the Hamas was allowed to reinforce its presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah Movement for National Liberation as well as the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression and intimidation

Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".

Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of the Islamist movement in Palestine, returning from Cairo in the seventies, established an Islamic charity association. Prime Minister Golda Meir, saw this as a an opportunity to counterbalance the rise of Arafat’s Fatah movement. .According to the Israeli weekly Koteret Rashit (October 1987), "The Islamic associations as well as the university had been supported and encouraged by the Israeli military authority" in charge of the (civilian) administration of the West Bank and Gaza. "They were authorized to receive money payments from abroad."

The Islamists set up orphanages and health clinics, as well as a network of schools, workshops which created employment for women as well as system of financial aid to the poor. And in 1978, they created an "Islamic University" in Gaza. "The military authority was convinced that these activities would weaken both the PLO and the leftist organizations in Gaza." At the end of 1992, there were six hundred mosques in Gaza. Thanks to Israel’s intelligence agency Mossad (Israel’s Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks) , the Islamists were allowed to reinforce their presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, the members of Fatah (Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine) and the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression.

In 1984, Ahmed Yassin was arrested and condemned to twelve years in prison, after the discovery of a hidden arms cache. But one year later, he was set free and resumed his activities. And when the Intifada (‘uprising’) began, in October 1987, which took the Islamists by surprise, Sheik Yassin responded by creating the Hamas (The Islamic Resistance Movement): "God is our beginning, the prophet our model, the Koran our constitution", proclaims article 7 of the charter of the organization.

Ahmed Yassin was in prison when, the Oslo accords (Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government) were signed in September 1993. The Hamas had rejected Oslo outright. But at that time, 70% of Palestinians had condemned the attacks on Israeli civilians. Yassin did everything in his power to undermine the Oslo accords. Even prior to Prime Minister Rabin’s death, he had the support of the Israeli government. The latter was very reluctant to implement the peace agreement.

The Hamas then launched a carefully timed campaign of attacks against civilians, one day before the meeting between Palestinian and Israeli negotiators, regarding the formal recognition of Israel by the National Palestinian Council. These events were largely instrumental in the formation of a Right wing Israeli government following the May 1996 elections.

Quite unexpectedly, Prime Minister Netanyahu ordered Sheik Ahmed Yassin to be released from prison ("on humanitarian grounds") where he was serving a life sentence. Meanwhile, Netanyahu, together with President Bill Clinton, was putting pressure on Arafat to control the Hamas. In fact, Netanyahu knew that he could rely, once more, on the Islamists to sabotage the Oslo accords. Worse still: after having expelled Yassin to Jordan, Prime Minister Netanyahu allowed him to return to Gaza, where he was welcomed triumphantly as a hero in October 1997.

Arafat was helpless in the face of these events. Moreover, because he had supported Saddam Hussein during the1991 Gulf war, (while the Hamas had cautiously abstained from taking sides), the Gulf states decided to cut off their financing of the Palestinian Authority. Meanwhile, between February and April 1998, Sheik Ahmad Yassin was able to raise several hundred million dollars, from those same countries. The the budget of The Hamas was said to be greater than that of the Palestinian Authority. These new sources of funding enabled the Islamists to effectively pursue their various charitable activities. It is estimated that one Palestinian out of three is the recipient of financial aid from the Hamas. And in this regard, Israel has done nothing to curb the inflow of money into the occupied territories.

The Hamas had built its strength through its various acts of sabotage of the peace process, in a way which was compatible with the interests of the Israeli government. In turn, the latter sought in a number of ways, to prevent the application of the Oslo accords. In other words, Hamas was fulfilling the functions for which it was originally created: to prevent the creation of a Palestinian State. And in this regard, Hamas and Ariel Sharon, see eye to eye; they are exactly on the same wave length.

The Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at www.globalresearch.ca grants permission to cross-post original Global Research (Canada) articles in their entirety, or any portions thereof, on community internet sites, as long as the text & title of the article are not modified. The source must be acknowledged as follows: Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG) at www.globalresearch.ca . For cross-postings, kindly use the active URL hyperlink address of the original CRG article. The author's copyright note must be displayed. (For articles from other news sources, check with the original copyright holder, where applicable.). For publication of Global Research (Canada) articles in print or other forms including commercial internet sites, contact: [e-mail] .

© Copyright H ZEROUKY 2004. For fair use only/ pour usage équitable seulement. This article originally appeared in French in L’Humanité. Translation by Global Outlook, 2002.

There is an error in the UPI link, which appended /print to the correct URL. but the article is easily found by entering the title into UPI's search box.

Analysis: Hamas history tied to Israel
Published: June 18, 2002 at 8:13 PM
By RICHARD SALE, UPI Terrorism Correspondent

Israel "aided Hamas directly -- the Israelis wanted to use it as a counterbalance to the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)," said Tony Cordesman, Middle East analyst for the Center for Strategic Studies.

Israel's support for Hamas "was a direct attempt to divide and dilute support for a strong, secular PLO by using a competing religious alternative," said a former senior CIA official.
...
According to ICT papers, Hamas was legally registered in Israel in 1978 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the movement's spiritual leader, as an Islamic Association by the name Al-Mujamma al Islami, which widened its base of supporters and sympathizers by religious propaganda and social work.

According to U.S. administration officials, funds for the movement came from the oil-producing states and directly and indirectly from Israel. The PLO was secular and leftist and promoted Palestinian nationalism. Hamas wanted to set up a transnational state under the rule of Islam, much like Khomeini's Iran.

Read more at: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Security-Industry/2002/06/18/Analysis-Hamas-history-tied-to-Israel/UPI-82721024445587/

The jpost link is actually broken. They rewrite and re-title and disappear stuff so frequently that this should be no shock. Nevertheless, doing a keyword search reveals what everyone paying attention already knew to be true, with the same heading in the link but gone from the article.

...
An argument then broke out between the prime minister and Netanyahu when the opposition leader accused Olmert of giving in to Abbas. To that, Olmert replied, "Netanyahu has gone back to being the same old Netanyahu," and accused him of directly contributing to strengthening the Hamas movement by releasing the movement's founder, Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, during his term as prime minister. "Netanyahu established Hamas, gave it life, freed Sheikh Yassin and gave him the opportunity to blossom," he said, adding that the current political situation in the Palestinian Authority came about "because of the nonsense that was done while Netanyahu was prime minister. ...
More at: http://www.jpost.com/Cooperations/Google/Default.aspx?q=%22Olmert%20accuses%20Netanyahu%20of%20creating%20Hamas%22.

The facts are clear, despite the doubt you express in your first paragraph.

The Muslim Brotherhood, a "parent" of Hamas, had already assassinated Sadat and killed tourists and others in Egypt and were a part of the anti-progressive fundie butchers being imported by the US, etc, into Afghaanistan. Do you really think Israeli intelligence did not see their offshoot turning in that direction after building their base? You seem to believe that they had no idea what helping build Hamas would lead to. I think they knew and wanted what anyone could foresee.

As for the crazy's role in Israel's politics, I didn't say they run things, just that they are very useful tools in a policy that is purely based on greed and conquest. They, as well as poor immigrants from abroad, get imported to populate settlements in stolen lands, and their willingness to participate in this continued conquest is based on their very deranged set of values. They add numbers and votes to the sickest of factions in Israeli politics.

And I made no claim that things were engineered down to the last detail, the specifics of every news headline forever after. Only an idiot would believe I said anything of the sort. Only that actions have consequences and most intelligence organizations may be evil but they are not stupid, as you seem to be true of those guiding Israel's policies.

And FYI, the funding/importing of insane religious crazies into Afghanistan began under Carter, by Brzezinski, who later argued that nobody should have any concern about what creating "a few stirred up Moslems" might lead to. So there is some evidence on your side, that the masters/monsters who bring death and devastation with their every breath, are actually completely stupid as well as evil to the core.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

8. What Israel has done for Hamas is given them a clear run.

Israel's policy of isolating the Gaza strip from the West bank, keeping it on a permanent wartime footing and deliberately impoverishing it has done wonders for solidifying Hamas's control over it and making it impossible for the PA or other moderates to challenge them there.

I don't know whether that was the deliberate intention of Israel's policy or not, but it was certainly the main effect.

[shira]

16. And if Israel squashed Hamas early when Hamas was only into charity....

....then you'd have ripped Israel for destroying a non-violent and - at that time - seemingly peaceful movement (certainly no worse than any non-violent pro-Palestinian 'peace movement' you support today).

Seriously, who are you kidding?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

17. Who said anything about Israel squashing Hamas?

What Israel should have done was act in ways that make it easier for the PA to beat Hamas in elections, rather than vice versa.

[shira]

18. But just allowing Hamas to exist is 'support' in your opinion.

You'd be critical of any approach Israel took WRT Hamas in the late 1980's.

Besides, what on earth could Israel have done to help the PA beat Hamas in elections?

It wouldn't matter. Hamas won a majority of parliamentary seats, not the Presidency or dictatorship of Gaza. They took Gaza by force. What makes you think that had the PA won in 2005, Hamas wouldn't be in power today after throwing the PA and its supporters off rooftops?

Blind faith?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Your ESP is playing up again.

I've asked you this many many times before, but once again: please don't tell me what I think. I know, you don't.

Please take note of the fact that I do not think that allowing Hamas to exist is support, and do not repeat that lie.

[ladjf]

6. Is this a joke? Or, are religious leaders really doing this sort of thing?

Why are people still turning to crazy people for spiritual guidance?

[Crunchy Frog]

7. Becoming more and more like the other countries in the region?

I guess that sort of thing rubs off.

[Chulanowa]

10. Nah, that's just the way religion is

Give Chrisitans ten free minutes and they'd be stoning people, too. Hindus would be setting people on fire, Buddhists would be mutilating and beheading people, I'm sure you'd be able to find no shortage of other wacky brutal shit nibbling at the edges of "civilized" religion, just waiting for a moment when their largely secular societies look away for a moment.

[Ken Burch]

11. And don't forget that diabolical organization known as" Unitarian Jihad"

http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-04-08/entertainment/17367067_1_god-unitarian-jihad-serenity

[IndianaGreen]

19. I see the Jewish version of Wahhabism has reared its ugly head

and unless it is stomped into oblivion, it will do to Judaism what the Evangelicals did to Christianity.