Arab move to censure Israel stymied at UN meeting

[oberliner]

VIENNA — A 151-nation meeting of the U.N. nuclear agency narrowly defeated an Arab push Friday to censure Israel for not opening its nuclear activities to inspection in a closely watched result that the U.S. said was a positive signal for ongoing Mideast peace talks.

Of nations present at the International Atomic Energy Agency assembly, 51 voted against a resolution called "Israeli Nuclear Capabilities." Forty six voted for, 23 abstained and the rest were absent.

A senior U.S. envoy said the vote was significant in the context of continuing Israel-Palestinian peace talks and U.S.-backed plans to stage a major conference on a Mideast nuclear free zone in two years.

"It preserves a chance for the movement eventually toward a Middle East free of weapons of mass destruction, once peace there is achieved," said Glyn Davies, Washington's chief IAEA delegate. "It sends the right positive signal to the peace process and really allows that process to go ahead."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hN1gG2FKiM6vZJsY_qF2lYN2R7qQD9IEB9GG0

[ProgressiveMuslim]

1. Hooray! Apartheid can proceed unimpeded! This is great news!

[oberliner]

4. This vote had nothing to do with apartheid in any respect

Did you read the resolution?

[ProgressiveMuslim]

2. Back to regularly scheduled brutality...! Israel shoots nonviolent protestors todayin Bi'ilin.

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/09/man-shot-with-live-ammunition-at-bilin-wall-protest.html

No censure needed here! Hell no! Those fucking Arabs have to be learned to be satisfied with the tasty crumbs Israel throws them!

[oberliner]

3. He was an extremely violent protestor according to the Israeli side (as reported by Ma'an News)

An Israeli military spokeswoman said soldiers shot a 0.22 bullet at an "extremely violent" protester. Asked in what way he had been violent, she said he had thrown rocks at forces. She added that live ammunition is used against "extremely violent" protesters according to strict rules of engagement. She also confirmed that riot dispersal mechanisms were used against protesters.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=317680

[ProgressiveMuslim]

5. Eyewitness Account: Decide for yourselves.

Ashraf Al-Khatib was shot in the leg with a 0.22” caliber live bullet at the weekly demonstration against the illegal apartheid wall. An international nonviolent activist was also hit in the shoulder with a low-flying tear gas canister. The hundreds of other participants were attacked with huge quantities of tear gas.

The weekly protest is against land theft by the illegal apartheid wall and the Israeli occupation in general. This week, the marchers also expressed solidarity with Palestinians in East Jerusalem (al-Quds) where a Silwan resident was shot dead by an Israeli settler security guard on Wednesday morning.

Two hundred Palestinians accompanied by around thirty international and Israeli activists assembled at the village’s Mosque after noon and marched towards the apartheid wall, chanting “no, no, to the wall” and “Free! Free! Palestine.” Around forty Israeli soldiers ran out of the gate to the settlement as they saw the march approaching, blockading the road.

Protesters marched up to the soldiers and confronted them, demanding to be allowed to walk on the village’s land, which even the Israeli High Court conceded was Palestinian in 2007. The soldiers did not allow anyone through, using their shields to aggressively push back the peaceful demonstrators. One Palestinian activist tried to fasten a poster to a soldier’s shield saying “Free Adeeb Abu Rahma,” referring to one of Bil`in’s four political prisoners held by Israel for organizing the weekly protests. The commander was seen indicating to his soldiers that he wants them to target Ashraf Al-Khatib.

The group demonstrated with the soldiers for thirty minutes until a youth threw a stone and the soldiers responded by firing huge quantities of tear gas at the peaceful crowd, many of whom proceeded to suffer breathing difficulties. One international activist was hit in the shoulder with a low-flying tear gas canister. A group of youths began throwing stones towards the soldiers, and three photographers stood next to the soldiers were hit.

Ashraf Al-Khatib, a Bil`in resident aged 31, was shot with 0.22” caliber live bullet which hit him in the lower leg. No warning shots were heard beforehand. Unable to stand, he was hurriedly carried by Palestinian and international demonstrators towards the village as he bled heavily from his calf. When Al-Khatib first fell, all of the soldiers ran forwards in an attempt to arrest him, but the demonstrators were able to successfully load him into a car before the soldiers caught them. As the car drove away the soldiers retreated, and the demonstrators walked back to the village, the demonstration lasting around one hour in total.

Upon Al-Khatib’s arrival at hospital, it was found the 0.22” caliber round had smashed the bone in his leg.

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/09/man-shot-with-live-ammunition-at-bilin-wall-protest.html

[oberliner]

6. The account you've provided indicates that stones were thrown at the Israelis

The account also notes that photographers standing near the Israeli soldiers were hit with those stones.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

7. If the facts in the account is linear tho the throwing started AFTER the tear gas neh?

feel sorry for those photographers tho

[oberliner]

8. Well this particular report says the tear gas started after one stone was thrown

Then more stone-throwing followed that.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

9. That clearly warrants being shot with live ammo. Sorry. I forgot you supported that.

My bad.

[oberliner]

10. Completely wrong on both counts

It doesn't warrant being shot with live ammo.

I am completely opposed to that. No idea where you would get the idea that I would support it.

The only thing I am disputing is the notion that throwing rocks at soldiers is non-violent.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

11. LOL! The fact that you choose to spend energy being sure to accurately paint as violent

the pathetic acts of resistance of brutally oppressed indienous people speaks volumes about what you support.

Yessirree... in this situation the number one priority is to be sure that the world understands that kids throwing rocks are "EXTREMELY VIOLENT PROTESTORS!!!!!"

Why is that distinction so CRITICALLY IMPORTANT TO MAKE????

Duh... so that you can justify the IDF shooting them at close range with live ammo, that's why.

Nice try though.

[shira]

12. Why pretend that a mostly Jewish military chooses to shoot completely innocent people...

...for no reason whatsoever?

:shrug:

[ProgressiveMuslim]

16. Like I said, you believe it's warranted. Tell me, if someone were raping your sister, would the

rapist be allowed to shoot her for fighting back? Would she be completely "innocent?"

Just trying to clarify how it is you believe victims of violence are allowed to respond.

[shira]

23. Is rock-throwing your idea of non-violent, innocent resistance by harmless people?

Hate is the only reason some here pretend Israel deliberately harms completely innocent and harmless people.

These attempts to portray Israelis as monsters is nothing but hate that dehumanizes a whole people.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

30. Do I consider teenagers who live under daily humiliation from a violent military occupier,

who are desperate and frustrated and then hurl a stone some sort of violent criminal.

HELL NO!!!!

I know this for a fact: If americans faced a foreign occupier who held us under an iron fist for 50 years, we'd be doing a helluva lot more than hurling rocks.

I also think that for the "jewish nation" to see the daily example of people NOT cooperating with attempts to destroy them must really, really, really rankle on some level.

[shira]

31. You're talking about Hamas violently occupying and humiliating Palestinian teens on a daily basis?

Sorry - I can't take seriously claims of human rights abuses against Palestinians by folks who can't be bothered to ever criticize a very far Rightwing Palestinian government that denies them basic human rights...

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

40. The teens of Gaza aren't being occupied and humiliated daily by Hamas?

The only dehumanizing going on here is by those accusing the mostly Jewish military of deliberately shooting innocent and harmless kids.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

46. Project much? Because you are doing such a fabulous job dehumanizing the enemies of civilization...

....while the Palestinian government has done exponentially far worse to the Palestinian people over the past 62 years. Can't say I have much respect for those crying crocodile tears, sorry to say...

Would you be satisfied if Israel were to treat Palestinians like Hamas treats them? I'm thinking you definitely would since you apparently have no problem whatsoever with the way in which Hamas treats Palestinians.

Also, how does it help the Palestinian cause to accuse Israel of genocide, starvation, apartheid, poisoning the wells, shrinking Palestinian penises with ray guns...?

That goofy Rightwing blather doesn't help Palestinians but it certainly defames and dehumanizes a certain people.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

51. Your role in stripping Palestinians of their humanity on a daily basis is clear for all to read.

It's evil.

[shira]

52. You're justifying any and all action taken against innocent Israelis and I'm dehumanizing? n/t

[ProgressiveMuslim]

55. I'll bet a week's pay the vast majority of Americans would do exactly the same.

Most human beings have a built-in self-defense mechanism that kicks in when you're under threat, when you live under daily humiliation, when people are trying to destroy you.

That is the SANE reaction!

[shira]

56. But Palestinians were terrorizing Israelis before any occupation or humiliation. n/t

[Shaktimaan]

35. Interesting analogy.

By making this kind of argument you essentially justify any kind of action taken against Israelis. After all, if being an IDF soldier is the equivalent of constantly committing rape then throwing rocks is downright mild. The problem is in your use of the word "violence." Rape is undeniably violent. It's pretty much the top of the list. When you start comparing specific violent acts like that to nebulous policies like occupation it starts to make your case look more and more hysterical.

Just trying to clarify how it is you believe victims of violence are allowed to respond.

So you think that some violence should be tolerated. Where is the line then? If stone throwing is allowed then what about molotov cocktails? Knives? Guns? Rockets? At what point should Israelis be allowed to defend themselves from immediate violent threats? Yes, stone throwing qualifies as a violent threat. Not a life-threatening one. But a threat nonetheless. (Friends of mine sport missing teeth and scars.) So what would an appropriate Israeli response be?

Tell me, if someone were raping your sister, would the rapist be allowed to shoot her for fighting back?

Philosophies like this also cut both ways. The 4 civilians killed last week were victims of violence. Would it be appropriate for their families to head out and get some street justice in response?

In fact, isn't the occupation itself a response to violence against Israelis? Thus, are the Palestinians completely innocent in the making of the current situation?

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

47. You'd have a better argument for an end to occupation if Lebanon 2000 and Gaza 2005...

...never happened. In each case, Israel pulled out and violence against Israelis only got worse.

Is that what you prefer once again, as a voice for "peace"?

[shira]

53. Palestinian violence existed before occupation, so don't pretend occupation causes it.

Besides, Hamas' occupation of Gaza is far worse than Israel's, yet there is no "resistance" against Hamas. The reason being Hamas would react far more violently and brutally than Israel.

What's funny is your support for one-state. If you defend Hamas' abuse of Palestinians, denying basic human rights, etc... then what else would you tolerate once there's one state with both Jews and Palestinians at Hamas' mercy?

:shrug:

[ProgressiveMuslim]

54. Broken reco...Broken reco...Broken reco...Broken reco...Broken reco...Broken reco..

Watching people stand up to their oppressors really bugs the crap out of you, doesn't it?

[oberliner]

13. Not a whole lot of energy has been expended

Takes all of about fifteen seconds to post a comment.

Throwing rocks at people cannot be construed as "non-violent" regardless of how brutally oppressed those rock-throwers may be.

[shira]

14. I wonder what Hamas and the PA would do to these rock-throwers if they protested against....

....the Palestinian government "non-violently"?

:shrug:

[Tripmann]

15. LOL! Noun - verb - hamas. Booga booga booga

[oberliner]

19. Any mention of Hamas is going to generate this response?

Are they not relevant players in this conflict?

[Tripmann]

21. Its the standard MO of the poster to flip everything around to divert attention

Actually, its hilarious that they can't see the irony of having to constantly compare israels actions to terrorists.

[shira]

22. Just pointing out the sanctimonious hypocrisy of those who are indistinguishable...

...from their smug, insincere Rightwing friends at places like JihadWatch and FrontPageMag who say they just "criticize" Muslims for the "correct" reasons.

:)

They, like the representatives on the UNHRC from China, Libya, and Cuba don't get to pretend they care about anyone's human rights when it's clear they use human rights as a vehicle for their hate.

[Tripmann]

24. Just pointing out that hamas shooting rock throwers does not make israel shooting rock throwers less

disgusting.

[shira]

25. Hamas does much worse to Palestinians but Israel's "critics" don't care - why? n/t

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

27. They're sanctimonious hypocrites. Consider the source.

No better than Rightwing blowhards who'd like you to believe their obsession WRT condemning Muslims all day long is based on genuine concern.

How do you take seriously human rights decisions made by Libya or China? Or claims of abuse made by people who can't be bothered to criticize extreme far Rightwing oppressors of Palestinians like Hamas?

[Tripmann]

28. And how do you unwaveringly excuse israels human rights abuses,yet mention libya & chinas??

And from the board member who constantly paints israel as the victim of 'double standards'.

:rofl:

The only double standard around here is the acceptance of human rights abuses if they're wrapped in a star of david flag.

[shira]

29. I'm not sure how any liberal here can take seriously human rights accusations by Libya, China...

...and other organizations covering for the extreme Rightwing Hamas and PLO.

It doesn't help that you're unable to criticize a human rights council led by abusers like China and Libya, or other organizations that can't be bothered to condemn the extremely far Rightwing Hamas....

[Tripmann]

34. I'm not sure how any liberal can excuse israels violations because of who calls them on it

[shira]

37. Well, just as no liberal should take David Duke or the KKK seriously on their criticism of Israel...

...the same goes taking China, Libya, or any other organization that covers for the crimes of Hamas, etc.

These commissions for human rights are a farce.

What's difficult about this?

:shrug:

[Tripmann]

39. LOL! Says the liberal who excuses the collective punishment of innocent women and children.

Think you need to clean up your own act before you question ANYBODYS credentials around here, sweetheart.

[shira]

41. Right, as rockets on southern Israel isn't collective punishment worthy of any response...

...by the Israeli government. Israelis should just "take it".

Israel's actions in response are not collective punishment, BTW, no more than any other legal blockade.

[Tripmann]

42. So, the 'response' of collectively punishing innocent women and children is apt?

Any crimes against humanity you don't excuse for your beloved israel?

[shira]

43. A legal blockade is not collective punishment. n/t

[Tripmann]

48. Putting innocent women and children 'on a diet' for the actions of hamas is collective punishment

And a blockade which collectively punishes innocents is illegal under article 33 of the geneva convention.

But we both already know that.


Peddle your filth elsewhere

[shira]

49. It's remains a legal blockade, and taking your cues about International Law from Libya and China...

...doesn't help you.

Tell you what, find a reputable, honest and unbiased LIBERAL organization or committee making those charges and you'll have a point. Not like the sources you used when you were once claiming here that Israel was starving Palestinians.

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=326524&mesg_id=326524

Quoting from shitty sources covering for far Rightwing regimes doesn't help you out. You know, like you also did when you claimed Israel put 5 bullets into the head of a child... :eyes:

[Tripmann]

50. I take them from the un and red cross. You take them from the blockaders LOL!

[shira]

57. You take from discredited sources whose BS has been debunked. n/t

[ProgressiveMuslim]

17. More posts defending shooting civilians than condemning it. Your values are clear.

[oberliner]

18. Values are not reflected by the posts one makes on a particular DU message

If something is posted that is not accurate, it is useful to attempt to post a correction.

That seems a lot more productive than the "boo" or "hooray" or "booga booga" posts that folks make to register their approval or condemnation of various actions and comments.

Let me make something perfectly clear to you and any other interested parties:

I am opposed to violence against civilians.

You may consider every act of violence committed against civilians by either side in this conflict condemned by me.

[ProgressiveMuslim]

20. Blah blah blah. You can talk till you are blue in the face. Your record is clear.

[shaayecanaan]

36. Black South Africans threw stones at Sharpville...

nevertheless, the apartheid government was criticised for shooting them.

Ultra orthodox Jews also threw stones during the Haredi riots one year ago. I can\'t recall the Israeli government shooting at Jews when they throw stones, it seems to be something that they only do to Arabs.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. Every country with nuclear facilities should willingly agree to inspections...

Shame on the US for being so hypocritical...

[azurnoir]

33. Agreed +100 n/t