Israeli soldiers to testify behind screen in Corrie Case

[ConsAreLiars]

Haifa, Israel – The Haifa District Court on Thursday granted a government request to allow soldiers to testify behind a screen in the lawsuit filed by Rachel Corrie’s family against the State of Israel for her unlawful killing in Rafah, Gaza.

The order includes the driver of the bulldozer that killed Rachel, who is slated to testify later this month. However, Judge Oded Gershon ruled that both the commander of the unit and the second soldier in the bulldozer that hit Rachel would testify in plain view, because their faces were already publicly known.

...

The first soldier to testify under the extraordinary new measures was the commander of the second bulldozer. Known to the court only as A.S., with voice muffled behind the screen, he told the court he did not see the other bulldozer strike Rachel and did not remember much about that day.

Contrary to the detailed affidavit he signed less than eight weeks ago, A.S. said he did not know how Rachel had been hurt; did not know the distance from which the bulldozer had approached Rachel; and did not know the height and width of the mound of earth the bulldozer was pushing.

Much more at: http://www.auphr.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4689&Itemid=1

[txaslftist]

1. Funny.

They didn't kill her in secret, but they get to testify in secret.

[ConsAreLiars]

2. The truth gets told througn many media,

including the play based on her diaries. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_is_Rachel_Corrie . It is being performed across the world including in Israel. The truth is one thing, justice in her case in an Israeli court is as unlikely as justice for the 1400, now closer to 1500 Gazans murdered by the IDF or those murdered in Lebanon or the West Bank.

When was the last time an Israeli who murdered a Palestinian or an advocate for justice got the death sentence or life in prison? That one fact says everything.

[oberliner]

3. Israel does not have the death penalty

Capital punishment is illegal in Israel.

Asher Weisgan was sentenced to life in prison (four consecutive life sentences) for the murder of four Palestinians a few years ago.

[ConsAreLiars]

4. So, Israel applies the death penalty to 1400-1500 in Gaza and the West Bank in the

Last couple years, executes them without a trial or even an indictment or even any reason at all, other than the power of a master class to butcher those it imprison and despises and fears.

So you acknowledge that the state of Israel murdered several peace activists on the high seas, in the West Bank, Gaza, everywhere. No Israeli who murders anyone will get murdered by the state, but non-Israaelis and even Israelis who support human rights for Palestinians, they can be murdered by the thousands. That insane BS about Israel never applying a death penalty is factually inaccurate. Through the courts, maybe never or rarely, but in practice, in reality, they can claim to be #1 in death-penalty murdering. They just skip that awkward court nonsense, like the US.

[Jim Sagle]

5. They weren't peace activists, they were knife- and club-wielding thugs. But hey, you knew that.

[Tripmann]

6. Theres no evidence that the people who were killed were wielding anything. But hey, you knew that.

In fact, eyewitness testimony indicates that the american kid shot point blank in the head was in fact holding a camera.

But don't let me get in the way of your attempts to excuse the inexcusable.

[Jim Sagle]

7. Some eyewitness testimony says the opposite.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/html/ipc_e130.htm

Indeed, according to Turkish journalist Sefik Dinç, it was clear to Israeli soldiers that their colleagues were "in danger." Dinç told Israel's Channel 1,

I saw with my own eyes that when the soldiers came on helicopters and started landing on the ship, they did not fire. It wasn't until the soldiers were met with resistance and realized that some of their friends' lives were in danger that they began using live ammunition.

Dinç's account was apparently of no interest to the Human Rights Council investigators. In striking contrast with his eyewitness testimony, the report insists that "live ammunition was used from the helicopter onto the top deck prior to the descent of the soldiers."

In other words, the UN lied, as usual.

[ConsAreLiars]

8. Yep, believe that gang of professional hate-/fear-mongers, but not the

UN or the full accounts of those on board and the many rights organizations. What is your explanation for why the killers seized and apparently destroyed all the video and audio evidence from the ship? T

he answer is obvious, and the significance of that simple fact regarding which group consisted of brutal, murderous, cowardly monsters and which consisted of unarmed victims is obvious.

If most Israelis were not dominated by such mind-numbing fear, hatred, bigotry and ignorance, and if those characteristics were not primary objectives of IDF brainwashing, there might be a better chance that the people in that land would have the courage to actually desire a peace agreement. As it is, the only way those immersed in such a state of terror will feel safe is when all "the others" are exterminated or incarcerated. You present that viewpoint quite effectively and transparently.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shira]

11. Jim, it's also just a coincidence that all 9 killed dreamed of being martyrs.

Isn't it odd these people here are defending Rightwing hate-filled zealots who are the equivalent of the most extreme settlers?

That was only rhetorical because it's not odd at all.

:eyes:

Note the irony....these guys are still trying to convince themselves the IHH is a peaceful humanitarian organization, there's really a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, that Zionists run the media, and none of the 1400 killed in OCL were terrorists.

But you're the one living in a fantasy world.

:)

[Tripmann]

12. Dreaming of martyrdom doesn't make the person who put the bullet in your head any less

of a killer. Still excusing the killing of an american kid I see.

[Jim Sagle]

14. An American kid who stuck his dumb ass into a war zone.

[Tripmann]

16. An american kid bringing aid to the innocent women and children your buddies were committing a crime

against humanity on.

Any filth you won't excuse jim??

[Jim Sagle]

17. It's not filth, it's a war of extermination against Israel. Snap out of it.

[Tripmann]

18. Aww, poor superpower with its 200+ nukes & state of the art weaponry.

Just as well that IDF soldier shot that kid in the face while he was on the ground injured, lest the state of israel be wiped off the map.

[Jim Sagle]

19. I guess the Viagra kicked in, huh?

[Tripmann]

20. Projecting RAWXXXXXXXX.......

:)

[Jim Sagle]

21. I wouldn't know.

:o

[azurnoir]

22. Did it well I am glad for you however

I've always thought you to be more the "Posti-Vac" type, it only requires 1 person, however do you really beleve that Furkan Dogan or the entire flotilla posed an existential threat to Israel?

[Jim Sagle]

23. Of course not. But there is unconditional war being waged by Hamas, and the blockade is a part of

the response to that.

[Tripmann]

24. So, you're condoning the collective punishment of innocent women and children jim??

[Jim Sagle]

25. I hope no women and children were on that flotilla.

If they were, blame the Flotillas for putting them in harm's way.

[shira]

26. Dont'cha know? Human shielding is okay when it's the anti-Israel brigade doing it. n/t

[Jim Sagle]

27. I've gotten that memo. I just can't wrap my mind around it.

[Tripmann]

28. As the maritime component of the siege, the blockade is partly responsible for the collective

punishment of the innocent women and children of gaza. 65% of babies born are anemic, 10% of children have stunted growth due to malnourishment. A million people collectively punished for the actions of less than 1% of their population.

You happy to condone this jim?

[oberliner]

29. What food products are prevented from entering Gaza as a result of the seige?

I thought that as of June, all food products were allowed in.

[Tripmann]

30. We're talking about the flotilla attack oberliner. The full restrictions were in place at the time.

[azurnoir]

31. as of June some food restrictions were supposedly lifted

but beyond that we have not heard much also there Rafah is open

[oberliner]

32. Some food restrictions were supposedly lifted?

Actually it was all food restrictions that were lifted.

And there is no "supposedly" about it.

[azurnoir]

33. has the quantity allowed in been increased and by how much? n/t

[oberliner]

34. Weekly summary of the Gaza crossings

Since 17 June 2010, 15,629 trucks carrying 342,308 tons of aid; 23,645,109 liters of fuel (heavy diesel and gasoline) and 13,292 tons of cooking gas have been delivered to the Gaza Strip.

<snip>

According to the new policy, whatever is NOT on the restricted list will be allowed into the Gaza Strip. The only goods that are currently restricted are arms, weapons and various war materiel, and certain items that have military as well as civilian applications. Because of the problematic nature of these dual-use materials, construction materials are currently allowed in only for PA-approved projects that are under the supervision of international bodies.

The amount and variety of goods to enter Gaza every day has increased (truck volume in June increased by 12%). Work is being done to increase the capacity of the existing land crossings and, if necessary, additional crossings will be built (Kerem Shalom's capacity has been increased by 210% - 250 trucks can be handled a day; previously the average was 80-90). Efforts are being made to streamline the process of approving the entry and exit of people for medical and other reasons and the passage of employees of recognized international organizations.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/New_government_policy_brings_more_goods_to_Gaza_June_2010.htm

The week by week summary for August, September, and October can be found on the site.

[Tripmann]

35. Got any figures NOT from the people staging the siege Oberliner??

[azurnoir]

36. Increased a whopping 12% it s still far below what UNRWA says is needed n/t

[azurnoir]

37. put in clearer perspective

The number of trucks using the main commercial crossings into Gaza from Israel over the past two weeks was 2,259. Prior to the siege, an average of 2,807 trucks per week crossed into Gaza, much higher than the current average of 1,130 vehicles. The current volume of goods entering Gaza is 40% of the pre-blockade figure.

http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/news/middle-east/1438-most-items-allowed-into-gaza-by-israel-qare-food-and-consumer-goodsq

[oberliner]

38. To reiterate my initial question

What food products are prevented from entering Gaza as a result of the siege?

Answer: None.

Agreed?

[Tripmann]

39. The question is not if food is allowed in, the question is 'is ENOUGH food being allowed in'.

The fact that an open-air prison which required aid before the siege is now receiving far less than half of what it was getting at that stage should give you your answer.

The whole '12% increase' figure is numerical juggling to rose-tint israels criminality. Facts are, even with that alleged 12% increase, not even half of the pre-siege amount that kept people from malnourishment is getting through. That is the figure which matters.

When a 12% increase of 'completely inadequate' adds up to 'still not nearly enough', it is an empty statistic useful only for propaganda purposes.

[oberliner]

40. I believe the answer is yes

Most articles say that food is relatively plentiful in Gaza. What they are lacking is construction supplies.

[Tripmann]

41. Hopefully you're right. 3 years is long enough to mass-malnourish innocent people.

Guess the people on board the flotilla did not die in vain after all.

:)

[oberliner]

42. Isn't that what being a martyr is all about?

A willingness (or even desire) to die for a cause?

[Tripmann]

43. Doesn't make the guy that shoots you in the face while you're on the ground injured less of a murder

[oberliner]

44. You can't be a martyr if nobody kills you

At least if one aspires to be a martyr in life.

[Tripmann]

45. Doesnt make the guy that shoots you in the face while youre on the ground injured less of a murderer

[oberliner]

46. Who did that?

Not sure what you are referencing here?

Shot in the face while lying on the ground injured?

[Tripmann]

48. The american kid executed by israel on the flotilla.

The autopsy report showed the exit wound from the shot to his head was consistent with the bullet meeting a solid surface when exiting (i.e. the kid was lying on the ground), and the powdering was consistent with a shot from very close range

Also, he was shot in both sides (back and front) of his head and both ends of his body, and from both a distance and close up. This would not happen in a scenario of a soldier defending himself. You shoot a 19 year old kid in the back, ankle OR leg from a distance, the shots to the face and back of the head up close is an execution. Before any autopsy report was released the manner of the american kids execution was known. The autopsy merely cooberated it.

Heres some more of the handiwork....

Furkan Dogan, 19

Five gunshot wounds: nose, back, back of head, left leg, left ankle

You can also take your pick from the rest of the autopsies.

Cengiz Alquyz, 42

Four gunshot wounds: back of head, right side of face, back, left leg

Ibrahim Bilgen, 60

Four gunshot wounds: right chest, back, right hip, right temple

Cegdet Kiliclar, 38

One gunshot wound: middle of forehead

Sahri Yaldiz

Four gunshot wounds: left chest, left leg, right leg twice

Aliheyder Bengi, 39

Six gunshot wounds: left chest, belly, right arm, right leg, left hand twice

Cetin Topcuoglu, 54

Three gunshot wounds: back of head, left side, right belly

Cengiz Songur, 47

One gunshot wound: front of neck

Necdet Yildirim, 32

Two gunshot wounds: right shoulder, left back

[oberliner]

56. You aren't on the fence at all about that?

You are asserting with certainty that Furkan Dogan was executed by being shot to death in the face while lying on the ground injured.

You don't want to wait to see what the Israeli investigation concludes? Or the other UN investigation?

[Tripmann]

57. Are you calling the coroner a liar? C'mon oberliner, theres enough death excused around here.

[azurnoir]

47. most food products can enter Gaza via Rafah

as to Israel's part I did find this

The Palestinian officials, based in the West Bank, said that as of next week, Israel will allow a wider variety of food, such as potato crisps, biscuits, canned fruit and packaged humous, as well as soft drinks and juice, into the Gaza Strip.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65820E20100609

[oberliner]

58. And all food products can enter Gaza via Israel

This fact seems to have been lost on some.

[azurnoir]

60. I have seen nothing stating that expressly however with Rafah open

to continue would be useless anf might appear "mean spirited"

[oberliner]

61. I already provided a link which stated that expressly

According to the new policy, whatever is NOT on the restricted list will be allowed into the Gaza Strip. The only goods that are currently restricted are arms, weapons and various war materiel, and certain items that have military as well as civilian applications.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/New_government_policy_brings_more_goods_to_Gaza_June_2010.htm

[azurnoir]

62. It says it was liberalized and seeing as how the amout is only increased by 12%

one must wonder just how much of these new item are coming into Gaza

[oberliner]

63. It says that all food items are allowed in

Only the items on the banned list are not allowed in. No food items are on that list.

[azurnoir]

65. there are no specific lists of items here is what is said about food

At the Security Cabinet meeting on 17 June 2010, the Government outlined its new policy towards the Gaza Strip. It was agreed to:

* Liberalize the system by which civilian goods enter Gaza.
* Expand the inflow of materials for civilian projects that are under international supervision.
* Continue existing security procedures to prevent the inflow of weapons and war materiel

According to the new policy, whatever is NOT on the restricted list will be allowed into the Gaza Strip. The only goods that are currently restricted are arms, weapons and various war materiel, and certain items that have military as well as civilian applications. Because of the problematic nature of these dual-use materials, construction materials are currently allowed in only for PA-approved projects that are under the supervision of international bodies.

The amount and variety of goods to enter Gaza every day has increased (truck volume in June increased by 12%). Work is being done to increase the capacity of the existing land crossings and, if necessary, additional crossings will be built (Kerem Shalom's capacity has been increased by 210% - 250 trucks can be handled a day; previously the average was 80-90). Efforts are being made to streamline the process of approving the entry and exit of people for medical and other reasons and the passage of employees of recognized international organizations.

<snip>

Essential food products including meat, chicken and fish, grains and legumes, fresh vegetables, dairy products, oil, flour, salt and sugar, in addition to animal feed, hygiene products, clothing, school supplies, medicines and medical supplies have always been among the goods that are regularly delivered to Gaza. A wide variety of commodities have been added: spices, cakes and candies, toys, cosmetic products, housewares and other items according to the demands of the vendors and the customers. More construction materials are also being delivered.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/New_government_policy_brings_more_goods_to_Gaza_June_2010.htm

[oberliner]

67. Israel's list of banned goods into Gaza

The list of controlled items:
1. Missile Equipment and Munitions:
a. All items listed in the Defense Export Control Order (DefenseEquipment), 2008.
b. All items listed in the Defense Export Control Order (MissileTechnology), 2008

2. Dual-use items:
a. All items listed in the Defense Export Control Order (Controlled Dual- use Equipment), 2008.
b. Defense Export Control Order (Controlled Dual-use Equipment Transferred to Areas Under Palestinian Civilian Control), 2008.
c. All dual-use items listed in Appendix A.

3. Dual-use items required for projects (In general, items included in this list, required for approved PA-authorized projects will be
allowed entry into the Gaza Strip, subject to international implementation and supervision) as listed in Appendix B.

Notes:

1. Any item not contained in the list of controlled items will be allowed to enter the Gaza Strip.
2. The list of controlled items will be updated from time to time.
3. Requests for authorization to transfer items included in this list to the Gaza Strip may be referred to the Gaza CLA.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=297438

There are no food items on the list of controlled items and any item not contained in the list of controlled items will be allowed to enter the Gaza Strip.

[azurnoir]

66. here is what is in the snip in what I posted from MFA

The Government reiterates that Israel expects the international community to work toward the immediate release of Gilad Shalit.

that could have counted as 6 paragraphs and forum rules do not allow that unless of course you wish to count the 3 asterisked items as separate paragraphs

[azurnoir]

49. more from PCHR

State of the Gaza Strip's Border Crossings 01 – 15 September 2010

Almost two and a half months have passed since Israel’s declaration on the alleged easing of the illegal closure regime imposed on the Gaza Strip. However, to date, no meaningful changes have taken place regarding the state of the border crossings. Statistics documented by the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR) on the state of border crossings during the reporting period refute Israeli claims with respect to the easing of the closure imposed on the Gaza Strip. Specifically, PCHR refutes claims that the entry of goods has increased in quantity and quality due to the reduction of restrictions imposed on the entry of goods since the beginning of August. Most of the goods allowed are consumables which do not meet the minimal level of the actual needs of the Gaza Strip. Raw materials, used for production, and construction materials needed for reconstruction of the Gaza Strip are completely denied entry. In addition, the Israeli Occupation Forces (IOF) have continued to impose a complete ban on the export of agricultural and industrial goods. As a result of the ongoing stoppage of production and the lack of development opportunities the Gaza Strip remains dependant on humanitarian aid.



Ongoing restrictions imposed by IOF with regard to movement causes immense suffering to the population of the Gaza Strip. IOF restricts movement from the Gaza Strip to Israel and/or the West Bank, including Jerusalem or abroad via Beit Hanoun (Erez) crossing, excluding limited numbers of ‘humanitarian cases.’ IOF started to prevent a new category of patients, those suffering from blindness and amputation of limbs, from traveling via Beit Hanoun (Erez) crossing to receive medical treatment. IOF states that these patients do not need urgent medical treatment instead claiming it is a luxury. As a result, the number of patients denied access to hospitals in Israel and/or those in Jerusalem and the West Bank have increased.



On the other hand, Rafah International Crossing Point has been opened for more than three and a half months. The operation of the crossing point compared to the previous periods has also improved, which is seen by PCHR as a positive step. However, although the crossing point is open daily only limited categories are allowed to travel. These categories include patients officially referred by the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) to Egypt for medical treatment and urgent cases; persons working abroad and holding residency permits in foreign countries; students enrolled at universities in Egypt and who hold residency permits there; students enrolled at universities abroad; Palestinians holding foreign passports and foreigners who are married to Palestinians; Palestinians obtaining "private coordination from the Egyptian authorities"; Palestinians holding valid residency permits in Egypt; international delegations, including human rights delegations and diplomatic ones; international journalists; and Palestinians holding diplomatic passports. PCHR believes that these measures are a positive step but it hopes that they will make additional steps to promote Gazans’ right to full freedom of movement, including traveling freely from and to the Gaza Strip via Rafah International Crossing Point.

http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6998:state-of-the-gaza-strips-border-crossings-01--15-september-2010-&catid=63:closure-update&Itemid=227

http://www.pchrgaza.org/portal/en/

[Tripmann]

50. Yeah, I heard the viva palestina convoy just got through at rafah handily enough. Fair play to them

[Jim Sagle]

51. Why would I be happy with any of it? And I don't trust your stats anyhow.

Hamas runs Gaza, and uses it as a base to conduct its war against Israel. Are YOU happy with THAT?

[Tripmann]

10. None of that proves the people shot dead were waving ANYTHING at the IDF

Proving someone elses point for them RAWWXXXX, eh jim??

[Jim Sagle]

13. Fuckin' A.

You prove my points every day, and I'm lovin' it. :beer:

[ConsAreLiars]

15. Her murderer will be able to hide benind a screen and not face her parents or the court

while lying from a script. Shameful coward!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/oct/20/rachel-corrie-case-soldier-anonymous

[hayu_lol]

52. Hmmm, just had an explosion that killed 17 children at/near...

a HAMAS terrorist training site.

Wonder who accepts the responsibility for this debacle?

[Violet_Crumble]

53. That's got nothing to do with the subject of this thread...

That comes across as though yr trying to change the subject...

[oberliner]

59. This post is responding to another about people taking responsibility for their actions

It is fair to expect that one who supports this principle would wish to see it applied across the region.

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ConsAreLiars]

64. As the deleted post said, perhaps in a way that some found

discomfiting, the claim you make has noi factual basis. I'll add that I'm sure that it was an innocent error, just repeating what you heard or read in the environment you inhabit, and unlikely to have been a deliberate fabrication.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.