Palestine says it will never recognize a Jewish state

[Ian David]

GAZA STRIP (BNO NEWS) -- Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Friday said that Palestine will never sign an agreement that would recognizing Israel as a Jewish State or one regarding a land swap.

Abbas reiterated that the only agreement he will accept is the one in which Israel recognizes Palestine as a state with the 1967 borders. He reiterated that the Palestinian Authority has already recognized Israel in 1993 and no further recognition is needed.

On Monday, Israel said that it will extend the settlement freeze moratorium if Palestine recognizes it as Jewish state. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said that it was not a condition but rather a trust-building step.

"A Palestinian state could be a cause of continued conflict and terror if it is not handled responsibly. If the Palestinians expect a national state, we can expect our own national state for the Jewish people," Netanyahu said.

More:
http://wireupdate.com/wires/11339/palestine-says-it-will-never-recognize-a-jewish-state/

Well, so much for any possibility of peace.

[jdp349]

1. *Jewish* State

They don't recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state, not Israel's right to exist.

[shira]

3. From the Hamas charter, and in Fatah's too...

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

===========

That's the right of existence Arab leadership recognizes, not Israel right to exist permanently as a Jewish homeland among neighboring Arab nations.

The very same issue Arab regimes had in 1948 recognizing Israel exists to this day.

[shaayecanaan]

11. \"the government of Israel firmly rejects the establishment of any Palestinian state

west of the Jordan River\"

-from the platform of the Likud party.

[shira]

12. Erekat: Israel has agreed to honor Olmert concessions

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=187072

That's the closest thing to Likud agreeing to the liberal Geneva Accord.

Seems times have changed.

Let me know when the Rightwing extremists from the PLO and Hamas move an inch from their 1948 positions.

[shaayecanaan]

14. Do you seriously contend that the PLO have not moved an inch from their 1948 positions? -nt-

[shira]

15. Check out the first 2 videos below in post #13 and then you tell me.

Looks to be 1948 all over again.

[Violet_Crumble]

17. I think it takes a unique level of blindness to believe that...

Acceptance of UNSC 242 is the obvious one when it comes to changing from any position held in 1948...

[Taverner]

5. Exactly.

Bad reporting

[Deep13]

2. They should all convert to Buddhism.

Then instead of being Jews and Muslims, they will all be Buddhists and there won't be any differences to fight over. I have a pretty good idea what the odds are of anything like that actually happening.

[baldguy]

4. Abbas doesn't think Israel should be rewarded for it's illegal imperialism.

He's right.

[azurnoir]

6. hmmm maybe this got past Netanyahu or maybe he's realy can not deliver on an agreement

September 9, 1993

Yitzhak Rabin

Prime Minister of Israel

Mr. Prime Minister,

The signing of the Declaration of Principles marks a new era in the history of the Middle East. In firm conviction thereof, I would like to confirm the following PLO commitments:

The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security.

The PLO accepts United Nations Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338.

The PLO commits itself to the Middle East peace process, and to a peaceful resolution of the conflict between the two sides and declares that all outstanding issues relating to permanent status will be resolved through negotiations.

The PLO considers that the signing of the Declaration of Principles constitutes a historic event, inaugurating a new epoch of peaceful coexistence, free from violence and all other acts which endanger peace and stability. Accordingly, the PLO renounces the use of terrorism and other acts of violence and will assume responsibility over all PLO elements and personnel in order to assure their compliance, prevent violations and discipline violators

In view of the promise of a new era and the signing of the Declaration of Principles and based on Palestinian acceptance of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, the PLO affirms that those articles of the Palestinian Covenant which deny Israel's right to exist, and the provisions of the Covenant which are inconsistent with the commitments of this letter are now inoperative and no longer valid. Consequently, the PLO undertakes to submit to the Palestinian National Council for formal approval the necessary changes in regard to the Palestinian Covenant.

Sincerely,

Yasser Arafat

Chairman

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Peace/recogn.html

[Yeshuah Ben Joseph]

7. Actually, Netanyahu and the rest of the hard right were well aware of that document

And the peace process it was a part of. Which is why Mr Rabin sadly became My neighbor not long after that, and any legitimate attempt at peace was buried with him. :(

[azurnoir]

8. Sadly the 3 day thingy didn't apply to Rabin too

could ya do somthin can I call you Heysus

[Crunchy Frog]

9. Why can't Israel be recognized

as the national state for the Israeli people?

[Violet_Crumble]

16. Probably because it's not the national state for all Israelis...

At least not according to Nutty and his supporters. It all depends on whether yr Jewish or not...

[Crunchy Frog]

27. And of course it IS the national state for people

who are quite happy to be citizens and nationals of other countries and have no interest whatsoever in being citizens or nationals of the state of Israel.

[Violet_Crumble]

38. Exactly n/t

[classysassy]

10. BiBi and his party

of right wingers are not interested in peace,if they were they would stop the lying he know that the Palestinian long ago said yes to a Jewish state if the Israelis would accept the 1967 boundaries

[shira]

13. Video evidence showing why Israel insists on the PA recognizing a homeland for Jews

Watch both.

http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=713&fld_id=713&doc_id=862
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=457


Israel knows full well the "moderate" PA wants the Zionist entity destroyed as much as Hamas does. The PA simply cannot and will not ever tell the Arab world that Israel has a right to remain as it exists today, permanently, and at peace among neighboring Arab states.

The essence of the conflict going back to 1948.

More video...
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=2230
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=2963
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=1701
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=1222
http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=381&fld_id=381&doc_id=1215

Palestinian liberals like Sari Nusseibeh have accepted the Geneva Initiative which recognizes Israel as the homeland for Jews.
http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/db900SID/MHII-6BL7HY?OpenDocument

Those who think this recognition is a dumb, unnecessary idea are arguing Fatah and Hamas' extreme Rightwing warmongering talking points and are at best being useful idiots in the cause to destroy Israel.

[shira]

18. Why Recognition of Israel as a Jewish State is a Prime Requirement for Israel-Palestinian Peace

http://www.gloria-center.org/Gloria/2009/08/prime-requirement.html

One of Israel’s highest priorities in negotiations with the Palestinian Authority (PA) is recognition by the PA and Arab states as a “Jewish state.” The purpose of this demand is to ensure a lasting peace with Israel as it exists rather than some formal declaration which would thereafter be subverted in every possible way.

...

But the most important reason is to counter various tricks like that of the “Right of Return,” which is based on a false reading of a single non-binding UN document that the Palestinians and Arabs rejected more than fifty years ago. Note that this demand—that all Palestinians who ever lived in what is now Israel or are descendants of such people—can come and live in Israel. Naturally, there first goal would be to destroy that country and the result would be horrible violence, bloodshed, and instability.

Don’t believe anyone who tells you this isn’t a serious demand on the PA’s part or that they will—as they tell credible people in private—not really implement it once Israel promises to let them do it. It is an absolutely central demand and if any Palestinian leader dared give it up publicly his life span—politically at least—would be very limited.

...

“Israel has never called into question the existence of the Egyptian political entity. On the other hand, the Palestinians, through their rejection of the <1947> UN Partition Plan, refused to recognize the Jewish state and embarked on a war to destroy it. This is, after all, the root of the conflict. Indeed, the Palestinian narrative is based on the rejection of the existence of a Jewish nation-state in any part of the territory they call Palestine.

“If you declared war against the Jewish state, does not the signing of a peace treaty with that state obligate you to accept it? This does not mean the Palestinians are asked to accept the Zionist narrative, but it is incumbent upon them to alter their narrative, which rules out the existence of a Jewish state.

“This is exactly what Israel did at Camp David and Oslo. Under the terms of binding international agreements, Israel committed itself to recognizing "the legitimate rights of the Palestinian Arab nation." Menachem Begin was the first to do this. This is not tantamount to relinquishing the Zionist narrative; it is a willingness to accept the legitimacy of a competing narrative and to seek a compromise. We only ask of the Palestinians that which we ourselves have done in the past.”

Note by the way something extremely important: To accept the existence of a Palestinian Arab state, Israel or Zionist ideology does not have to make any change whatsoever in its world view. It is not exclusionary. Palestinian nationalism is. For it to accept the existence of Israel--in real terms or even by signing a final peace treaty--requires a political and intellectual revolution.

And one of the ways you know peace is not near is that this revolution has barely begun. Examine Palestinian media, education, the statements (in Arabic) of leaders, mosque sermons, and so on, and you find few hints that there is acceptance of Israel's long-term, much less permanent, existence. Of course, Hamas makes little secret of its view on the subject.

[azurnoir]

20. Yes I would suggest that they be watched and attention be

paid to the "subtext" of the second group it is "fascinating" but not at all surprising considering the source now as to Ms Nusseibeh here is what is actually said regarding the Jewish State

4. Right of return: Recognizing the suffering and the plight of the Palestinian refugees, the international community, Israel, and the Palestinian State will initiate and contribute to an international fund to compensate them.

* Palestinian refugees will return only to the State of Palestine; Jews will return only to the State of Israel.

there is not one word as to the PLO recognizing Israel as the Jewish State or the state for Jews, in fact it seems to suggest that Jews will not be allowed to live in Palestine but this is what is viewed by you the poster as liberal

And those of us who are not in agreement with this new caveat placed on peace by Israel, the PLO formally recognized Israel in 1993, no it not just a "dumb" idea as you so simplistically opined, it is IMO a stall put forth by the desperate need of an Israeli PM who is not only unwilling but indeed unable to make good on any land concession to the PLO, due not to any Palestinian threat but to the threat posed by a very well armed group pf Israeli citizens who are continuing to expand their "settlements" in the West Bank

[shira]

21. Amos Oz and Sari Nusseibeh are both for the Geneva Accord, which recognizes Israel as a Jewish home

As are Noam Chomsky, Jimmy Carter, and Ray Hanania to name a few.

So liberals on both the Jewish and Palestinian side are for it, while extreme Rightwing rejectionist freepers in Hamas and the PLO are against.

And since you watched those videos, tell me why Israelis should trust that the PA will actually try keeping the peace once a deal is signed?

[azurnoir]

23. you blather on about about Arafat rejecting Geneva but fail to mention Israel did as well n/t

[shira]

25. LOL.....Olmert's offer in 2008 was hailed by the Geneva Accord people. n/t

[azurnoir]

29. the one that would only be implemented after Hamas was removed?

that one? the one that Netanyahu said he would not honor? the one that Israeli officials said later offered more than they would have given anyway?

Under the proposal, Israel would return to the Palestinians 93 percent of the West Bank, plus all of the Gaza Strip, when the Palestinian Authority regains control over the Gaza Strip, which the militant group Hamas seized from forces loyal to Abbas in June 2006.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/pa-rejects-olmert-s-offer-to-withdraw-from-93-of-west-bank-1.251578

[shira]

30. The one, like the Geneva Accord, that Erekat says Netanyahu has now honored?

http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?id=187072

[azurnoir]

32. what does Israel say about that? -nothing that's what

right under the headline

J’lem remains mum on content of talks as negotiating teams prepare to meet in Sharm e-Sheikh; Palestinian negotiator wants deal within 1 year.

so we'll see, lots of he said he said stuff going on

[whosinpower]

34. Netanyahu refuses

To be bound by Olmert's concessions. That is in the very article you posted. Netanyahu CAMPAIGNED against Olmert's proposal. He does not accept it. He is against it. He was ACTIVELY against it when Olmert was PM. This is just as true as Abbas not accepting Olmert's proposal. And we both know that even if Abbas did accept it - Olmert did not have the political capital to see it through....criminal charges and all that......

[shira]

22. As to Sari Nusseibeh recognizing a Jewish homeland...

"1. Two states for two peoples: Both sides will declare that Palestine is the only state of the Palestinian people and Israel is the only state of the Jewish people."

=====

Did you miss that?

And where do you find Nusseibeh signing off on no Jews being allowed to live in a future Palestine?

[azurnoir]

24. reread the statement which seems to suggest total segrigation n/t

[shira]

26. Cut-and-paste it and we'll see what it really says - okay? n/t

[azurnoir]

28. I already have n/t

[shira]

31. I honestly don't know which part you're referring to. Can you C&P it, please? n/t

[azurnoir]

33. It's part of comment # 20

It was labeled 4 because that was the part where she talked about refugee's

eta was

[shira]

35. There's nothing there in part 4 saying no Jews are allowed to live in Palestine. n/t

[azurnoir]

36. I said it suggested that nt

[lightningandsnow]

19. Do you blame them?

Would you also have been angry with indigenous people for not recognizing Canada, New Zealand, or Australia as British colonies?

[oberliner]

37. Were the indigenous people of Canada, New Zealand, or Australia given their own state?

If an independent state was established for the indigenous people of any of those countries, it might be a different story.

[whosinpower]

39. First nations in Canada have their own government - sort of

snip from wikipedia - In 1991, Prime Minister Brian Mulroney created the Royal Commission on Aboriginal Peoples chaired by René Dussault and Georges Erasmus. Their 1996 report proposed the creation of a government for (and by) the First Nations that would be responsible within its own jurisdiction, and with which the federal government would speak on a "Nation-to-Nation" basis.<109> This proposal offered a far different way of doing politics than the traditional policy of assigning First Nations matters under the jurisdiction of the Indian and Northern Affairs, managed by one minister of the federal cabinet. The report also recommended providing the governments of the First Nations with up to $2 billion every year until 2010, in order to reduce the economic gap between the First Nations and the rest of the Canadian citizenry.<109> The money would represent an increase of at least 50% to the budget of Indian and Northern Affairs.<109> The report engaged First Nations leaders to think of ways to cope with the challenging issues their people were facing, so the First Nations could take their destiny into their own hands.<109>

The federal government, then headed by Jean Chrétien, responded to the report a year later by officially presenting its apologies for the forced acculturation the federal government had imposed on the First Nations, and by offering an "initial" provision of $350 million.<109>

In the spirit of the Eramus-Dussault commission, tripartite (federal, provincial, and First Nations) accords have been signed since the report was issued. Several political crises between different provincial governments and different bands of the First Nations also occurred in the late 20th century, notably the Oka Crisis, Ipperwash Crisis, Burnt Church Crisis, and the Gustafsen Lake Standoff

snip -

[oberliner]

40. Palestinians also have their own government - sort of

Also from Wikipedia -

The Palestinian National Authority is the administrative organization established to govern parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

The Palestinian National Authority was formed in 1994, pursuant to the Oslo Accords between the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) and the government of Israel, as a five-year interim body, during which final status negotiations between the two parties were to take place. As of 2010, more than fifteen years following the formulation of the PNA, a final status has yet to be reached. According to the Oslo Accords, the Palestinian Authority was designated to have control over both security-related and civilian issues in Palestinian urban areas (referred to as "Area A"), and only civilian control over Palestinian rural areas ("Area B"). The remainder of the territories, including Israeli settlements, the Jordan Valley region, and bypass roads between Palestinian communities, were to remain under exclusive Israeli control ("Area C"). East Jerusalem was excluded from the Accords.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_National_Authority#Recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine

[whosinpower]

41. It can also be stated that aboriginal sovereignty has never been questioned

snip from wikipedia -
These relations are governed by the established treaties; the Supreme Court stated that treaties "served to reconcile pre-existing Aboriginal sovereignty with assumed Crown sovereignty, and to define Aboriginal rights,"<114> and the First Nations saw these agreements as meant to last "as long as the sun shines, grass grows and rivers flow."

[oberliner]

42. And yet they have never been given actual territorial sovereignty

I doubt that the Palestinians would be happy with the sort of arrangement described in that Wikipedia entry.

[whosinpower]

43. That is not exactly true

First nations had treaties with the crown which did reserve land for them. There have been many land claims negotiations and payment for land that was entitled to them but which they never fully recieved. In my own backyard, the first nations negotiated funds for land that was never given to them, and instead sold to settlers. Each person belonging to that reservation received a cheque. A sizable cheque from which they could buy back the land or use it as they saw fit.

Some of the bands have prospered and have businesses within that reservation. One band, just outside the city have a huge casino on first nations land, employing first nations people, and work with the government's gambling and lottery division on profit sharing. But many have not. And the disparity between first nations people and all the rest of us immigrants is huge. There are many societal problems.
I am not suggesting that this be a model from which Palistine/Israel can use. First nations in Canada do have a form of their own governance, and land as well - but sovereignty as a seperate state.....not in the true sense. First nations people vote in Canada's elections, are Canadian citizens and must abide by Canadian law. They also vote in the Assembly of First Nations -which is the governing body from which to negotiate treaty rights, land claims, cultural issues, education, etc with the Government of Canada.

It can also be stated that the reason for the different approach here was because the natives living here when the explorers arrived were, for the most part friendly and prospered with trade. That is not to say there was no fighting - there was, but not the level that is in the history books of the USA.

I got a bit sidetracked with this discussion.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

44. Yes. Yes, they were. Israel is among Western states unique in this respect.

Indigenous Canadians, New Zealanders and Australians all have states of their own - they are called Canada, New Zealand and Australia.

Israel is unique in that it continues to refuse to allow most of its indigenous population to vote.

There are many Western states that have behaved as badly as Israel in the past, but all of them have now repented; Israel is unique among them in continuing.

[oberliner]

46. No, actually, they weren't - and Israel is not at all unique in this respect

None of those peoples were given an independent state.

Israel, much like the other countries you've identified, allows all of its indigenous population to vote and has done so from the very first day the state came into existence (perhaps that element is what makes Israel unique).

As for the past, Israel does not hold a candle to just about every country in the so-called Western world with respect to its treatment of indigenous populations.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

47. Those peoples weren't, those people were.

I don't much care about the rights of peoples; I care a great deal about the rights of people.



"Israel, much like the other countries you've identified, allows all of its indigenous population to vote and has done so from the very first day the state came into existence (perhaps that element is what makes Israel unique)."

This is simply nonsense - it forcibly expelled most of them and refuses to allow them to return. I am genuinely astonished that you posted this - please tell me you meant something other than what you actually said?



"As for the past, Israel does not hold a candle to just about every country in the so-called Western world with respect to its treatment of indigenous populations."

This I agree on. However, I don't think it's relevant - what is relevant is how they are currently behaving.

[txaslftist]

45. 1890s ethics.

Well, at least we know what standard the Israelis hold themselves to. - if any.