Israel a Model (of Sorts) on Gays in the Military

[shira]

JERUSALEM (RNS) Israel, like the United States, is a largely secular society with deep religious roots. And Israel, like the United States, is home to vocal religious conservatives who frown on homosexuality.

But Israel, unlike the United States, has allowed gays and lesbians to serve openly in the military for 17 years. In fact, they are required to.

So, if Israel has found a way to allow gays in the military, can it provide lessons to the U.S. as it struggles with whether -- and how -- to dismantle Don't Ask/Don't Tell?

Perhaps. But like everything in Israel, it's a bit more complicated. And the comparison between the U.S. and Israel is inexact.

more...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/22/israel-a-model-of-sorts-o_n_772567.html

[Jim Sagle]

1. Watch Christian Zionist heads explode. Watch DU anti-Zionist heads explode as well.

Ya gotta love it.

[sellitman]

2. + 1

:toast:

[proteus_lives]

3. +2

[shaayecanaan]

4. Just about any country is a model (of sorts) for gays in the military...

since just about every western military (aside from the United States) allows gays to serve openly:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_military_service

In fact, many of them -such as Denmark- never banned gay people from serving in the first place (mainly because they needed every person they could get). So perhaps they might be a better model, if one were looking for same.

In any event, Israel is not in particularly exclusive company in this regard, and to a non-American such as myself, inordinately crowing about this achievement is like congratulating oneself for allowing black people to use public restrooms.

In other words, it should be regarded as a necessary, but in no way sufficient criterion for being considered a good international citizen.

We have these posts from time to time, publicly celebrating the fact that Israel is a leader in solar power or that they helped develop the Pentium MMX chipset. While that is all well and good, the criticism of Israel that tends to pop up here tends to centre on the fact that they have maintained a 60-year old occupation of the Arabs in Palestine.

The fact that the Army that brutalizes and oppresses Palestinian residents is one which happens to allow participation by gay people does not, at least to me, abrogate any of that criticism in any way.

[oberliner]

5. That is completely false

There is not a single country apart from Israel in the entire region that allows gays to serve in the military (openly or not).

Israel is also the one of the few that allow women to serve in the military at all in any capacity.

[azurnoir]

6. the link listed 35 countries other than Israel that allow gays to serve

openly but your right Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and I would believe most Muslim countries do not as for women IMO the line between allow and has to due to population limitations is thin indeed

[oberliner]

7. There are 195 countries in the world nt

[azurnoir]

9. do all 195 countries have official standing militaries?

Perhaps it should have said most Western countries

[oberliner]

15. 170 of them do I believe (give or take)

Why do you think there is such a regional discrepancy between Western and non-Western countries with respect to who can serve?

[shaayecanaan]

21. I imagine its not a bread and butter issue for the government of Guinea-Bissau

or for any other government that has problems feeding its population. I suppose it is a pressing issue for those countries that have the luxury of being able to consider such politically topical issues.

[oberliner]

22. It's not a bread and butter issue for the government of Israel either

The issue is among the countries whose governments impose restrictions on what gay people can and cannot do - like many of the non "western" countries (and the United States).

[shaayecanaan]

11. I did say **western** military (nt)

[oberliner]

14. Why is there such a regional discrepancy? nt

[azurnoir]

17. perhaps you could spell it out for us n/t

[oberliner]

18. I have no idea - I didn't limit the discussion to "western" countries

I don't see why that limitation was even introduced into the discussion.

[azurnoir]

19. Oerhaps because the country who's military is being discussed also

is considered by most as a "western" country

[oberliner]

24. That's fine

But do most countries in the world allow gays to serve openly in the military?

[azurnoir]

25. why would you ask that as anothe poste answeed it quite well IMO

for most counties it's not really a pressing issue-apprently. As for Israel have gays always been allowed to serve openly or since the '70's when the the Gay Pride started or has being gay just always been just an unimportant thing for IDF

[oberliner]

26. Because that was the statement I was responding to

Namely:

"Just about any country is a model (of sorts) for gays in the military..."

Do you think that is true? Is just about any country is a model (of sorts) for gays in the military in your opinion?

[azurnoir]

27. well the part you quote was only the title line

the first sentence of the post was this

"since just about every western military (aside from the United States) allows gays to serve openly"

I will admit I missed it on my first reading perhaps you did too?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jim Sagle]

10. +3

:headbang:

[shaayecanaan]

12. No doubt the BNP would agree (nt)

[Jim Sagle]

13. Ooga booga!

[shira]

16. You know it means a lot when people accusing you of being Rightwing...

...are the same people who have adopted and swallowed in whole the extreme Rightwing Palestinian narrative put out by fascist freeper nations like Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran.

These are the same people who can't stand criticism of far Rightwing nutball organizations like Hezbollah, Hamas, and the PLO.

It's hard to get more despicably fascist and Rightwing than the above nations and organizations, but our "Leftist" friends here somehow tolerate and are reluctant to ever criticize them.

Reminds me of how Chavez is able to work with Iran. Or how the N.Korean regime gets along with Syria. Then there's Hitler and Stalin making their pact in 1939...

:eyes:

Totalitarians in love.

[shaayecanaan]

20. Two members of my family were killed by Syria

so calling me a supporter of Syria is like calling you a Nazi, if members of your family happened to have died in the holocaust. I am certainly no supporter of Syria, which I consider one of the worst regimes on Earth, nor Saudi Arabia or Iran.

But of course, making completely egregious and unsupported accusations against someone is exactly what a right-winger would do.

[shira]

23. That's terrible. It's just that I haven't seen you or your colleagues here...

....indicating how opposed you are to the vulgar Rightwing policies and ideologies of Hezbollah (which Syria and Iran supports), the PLO, Hamas, etc.

It seems you're much more tolerant or supportive of these creepy Rightwing groups than you are of conservative groups that are nowhere near as fascist and backwards.

[shaayecanaan]

28. I haven't seen you indicating how opposed you are

to Yisrael Betainu, Kach, Kahane Chai, the National Front, etc.

Am I entitled to believe in the absence of such stated opposition that you are a supporter of such groups?