Three cheers for Israel's right

[azurnoir]

At this point the Western world is looking at Israel with a complete lack of understanding. Is it just a banana republic, something like a failed state? Or is it just behaving like a spoiled child, as Tom Friedman lately argued? Or is it an ethnocracy that, unsuccessfully, tries to hide ethnic cleansing and colonial ambitions behind protestations that it is under existential threat?

Israelis, in turn, feels misunderstood: After all, their country faces very real threats: Iran keeps calling for Israel's destruction, and may become a nuclear power. Hezbollah is armed to the teeth with rockets, and it has shown that it is willing to use them against Israel's population centers. Hamas rules Gaza, and its official position is that it will never accept Israel's existence. So why doesn't the world understand us?

<snip>

The phenomenal creativity of Israel's right truly shines by mixing these real dangers with a few others. First, we are told that Israeli Arabs are a fifth column and will tear Israel apart. Then say that the world no longer accepts Israel's existence. Make sure to conflate Ahmadinejad and Hamas with France, Britain and the European left. The former deny Israel's legitimacy; the latter just want us to stop building settlements, to get out of the settlements, and to let the Palestinians have a state. Just keep the distinctions blurred so you can fan hysterical fear.

<snip>

Hope and constructive thinking have never been good for the right, so make every effort to prevent Israelis from knowing how effective Salaam Fayad has been in building institutions and a viable security force in the West Bank, and that Israelis are having coffee by the thousands in Jenin.

If the right is lucky, the voices in the world that argue that Israel has gone nuts and that Israel doesn't intend to reach an agreement with the Palestinians will grow ever stronger. As a result, they will use the UN to recognize a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders. Then we can also say that the world as a whole hates us and that the language of international law and of human rights has been designed specifically to hurt Israel.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/opinion/three-cheers-for-israel-s-right-1.321726

[whosinpower]

1. Good article

Here are three interesting paragraphs -

Hope and constructive thinking have never been good for the right, so make every effort to prevent Israelis from knowing how effective Salaam Fayad has been in building institutions and a viable security force in the West Bank, and that Israelis are having coffee by the thousands in Jenin.

If the right is lucky, the voices in the world that argue that Israel has gone nuts and that Israel doesn't intend to reach an agreement with the Palestinians will grow ever stronger. As a result, they will use the UN to recognize a Palestinian state along the 1967 borders. Then we can also say that the world as a whole hates us and that the language of international law and of human rights has been designed specifically to hurt Israel.

Because the right has been so phenomenally successful in its wise strategies, we can be pretty sure that it will continue to aggravate the world even further. And this will lead to the right's ultimate triumph: Because after all, not only Israeli Arabs endanger Israel. So do leftist professors, writers and artists. Soon the right will get public opinion to the point where it will be acceptable to shut up all these disloyal people. Democracy, after all, is a Helenistic invention and very un-Jewish. So why not just drop the fiction of 'Jewish and Democratic?'

[Violet_Crumble]

2. He describes the Right and its supporters so well

That was a very enjoyable read. Thanks for posting it, Az...

[azurnoir]

4. your welcome you know it has occurred to me that if 1/4 of the

energy that is put into the subterfuge, Orwellian reasoning, bullying, propaganda spreading, you name it by Israel's so called supporters some of whom IMO really support Greater Israel was turned to honest peace making and negotiation this forum would have been obsolete before it ever began

[Violet_Crumble]

9. One thing I didn't agree with on reading this article again...

From the article:

'For starters, they have intensely studied successful right-wing groups that have succeeded in the past. They have realized that these parties have always made use of the same three tricks: First, take a real danger and blow it out of proportion. Second, conflate it with some other, imaginary dangers, so it looks even greater. And third, act in a way that reinforces the imaginary danger by doing everything possible to invite criticism from abroad.'

Mr Strenger says this about the Israeli Right. Successive Israeli govts have used those tactics, and they're used by the Left and Right in Israel. Israel's US 'supporters' are also from both sides of politics and use those tactics regardless of whether they're LW or RW. Apart from noticing that about the article, the rest of it is excellent. While I don't agree with Mr Strenger on everything he says, he hits the nail on the head other times for me to enjoy reading him, even the times when I disagree with him...

[alanquatermass]

10. That's for sure, Azurnoir! As I have said before, there is a very good reason..

-- that such esteemed, award-winning artists as Mike Leigh, Ken Loach and ELVIS FUCKING COSTELLO have all spoken out and boycotted this particular country -- and it isn't because they don't like Jaffa Oranges!

They do it out of hatred for the indefensible cruelty that is the hallmark of Israeli Foreign Policy.

[oberliner]

7. Shocked that you don't consider the author an anti-Palestinian racist

Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. They make every conceivable wrong decision.

Or so says this author.

[shira]

8. Strenger is a Zionist, against RoR, and for OCL, so he's Rightwing to many DU'ers here.....

Gideon Levy says he deplores liberals like Strenger even more than Israel's Rightwingers.

[oberliner]

11. Odd how similar sources are ignored/attacked while this source is praised

If anyone else had made the comments about Palestinians that he has, that person would not be getting this kind of treatment.

[shira]

14. Israel's "Rightwing" Liberals get a temporary free pass when criticizing Israeli policy. n/t

[oberliner]

16. It seems like sources only get attacked in certain situations

In others, anything goes!

[Tripmann]

3. Cheers Az. Really highlights the RW mass manipulation that some liberals enable.

[UndertheOcean]

5. Excellent !!!

[Scurrilous]

6. Thanks.

:thumbsup:

[oberliner]

12. Amazing that you could give this person the thumbs up

Shocking that you don't consider him to be unworthy of such commendation in light of his past comments about Palestinians.

[shira]

13. You must be referring to this piece of Rightwing trash by Strenger from December 2008...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/dec/30/gaza-hamas-palestinians-israel

[oberliner]

15. Weird to see him getting "Cheers" and "Excellent" and thumbs up and the like

I feel like if someone posted what he posted in that article you linked to people would be alerting on it as anti-Palestinian racism.

[azurnoir]

18. that was a nicely picked sentence from an aritcle

written 3 days in to OCL but yet a mere 10 days later he wrote this

Here is where Israeli opinion is no longer unanimous. There are those who say "Hamas can stop this - all they need to do is stop firing. They are responsible for the deaths of their children." They feel that Israel cannot be expected to accept this aggression.

Then there are those of us who feel that the price for being a civilised state is that you cannot fire at schools, even if an inhuman enemy fires from within. We feel that the ground incursion should have been avoided because we believe that the inhumanity of your enemy must not dictate your own deeds. No one can help but be horrified by the pictures of killed, maimed and terrified Palestinian children. And even though we despise an enemy that is not bound by any rules of recognisable civilisation, we must not let them dictate the terms of engagement.

Along with many other Israelis, I am enraged and disappointed by Israel's failure to restrict the use of force according to basic humanitarian values, and by its insufficient use of international help. We feel that Israel should have defined attainable objectives, such as a more durable ceasefire under international auspices and enforcement, and that this could have been achieved after the first few days of air strikes. And we feel horrified by the human price of the escalation of the ground incursion.

Israel is united by disdain for Hamas because it does not value the lives of its own children enough to avoid sacrificing them for political gain. But Israelis are divided on the extent to which we can let an enemy dictate the amount of human damage we inflict on them.

I will never stop criticising Israeli policies that I take to be wrong-headed, short-sighted or immoral. But I have no sympathy for the critics of Israel who refuse to see that there are ideologies who put destruction above human life and wellbeing. Hamas has changed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict from something that can be solved, to a clash defined by the principle that only one side can survive - critics cannot expect Israel to accept this simply because it is the stronger side.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/09/united-israel-comment-carlo-strenger

link to other articles Strenger has written for CIF

http://www.guardian.co.uk/profile/carlostrenger

[oberliner]

21. Thank you for confirming the veracity of the quote

"Palestinians make every conceivable wrong decision"

Make of that what you will.

[azurnoir]

24. what do you make of it ? n/t

[oberliner]

27. He has a perspective about Palestinians that is generally unwelcome here

I am surprised that his op-eds are praised so highly in light of that.

[Violet_Crumble]

22. I'm not getting it. That article's supposed to contain racism?

Mr Strenger's never written anything racist nor bigoted that I've read, and now I've read that article, that can be added to the growing list of articles written by him that aren't racist or bigoted. He does something I really admire in people - he doesn't blame only one side and absolves the other of any blame or responsibility...

[oberliner]

30. What do you think about the quotation I cited?

Would you not view it as racist or bigoted?

Here it is again:

"Palestinians never miss a chance to miss a chance. They make every conceivable wrong decision."

[shira]

23. Azurnoir, you may want to give Violet the link to the article Oberliner and I are going on about...

...since Violet has us both on ignore.

[azurnoir]

25. She has already read it n/t

[oberliner]

29. I don't think that poster has me on ignore

I see no reason why that would be the case. Maybe just doesn't want to engage in this discussion.

[LeftishBrit]

17. Excellent article

And I don't think that other article was racist. It might be seen as such if Strenger *only* blamed the Palestinians and attacked their entire culture; but he's just pointing out that through their own bad political choices, they *share* some of the responsibility.

But he doesn't absolve the Israelis for their own bad actions and bad political choices, as shown in this article.

'The phenomenal creativity of Israel's right truly shines by mixing these real dangers with a few others. First, we are told that Israeli Arabs are a fifth column and will tear Israel apart. Then say that the world no longer accepts Israel's existence. Make sure to conflate Ahmadinejad and Hamas with France, Britain and the European left. The former deny Israel's legitimacy; the latter just want us to stop building settlements, to get out of the settlements, and to let the Palestinians have a state. Just keep the distinctions blurred so you can fan hysterical fear.'

Just about describes the Israeli RW - who are fast bringing their country down! (And change some of the groups involved, and it would pretty well describe the British and especially American Right.)

[Violet_Crumble]

19. The Israeli Right is very skilled at mixing real with imagined fears...

Though as I pointed out upthread, the Israeli Left, or what's left of it when it comes to Labour, does the same but just aren't as skilled at it....

I haven't read every article Carlos Strenger has written, but I've never seen him write anything racist. Even if he hated Palestinians, it would be bigotry, not racism. From what I've read of his writing, he doesn't absolve either Israel nor Palestinian leaderships from blame, and definately doesn't blame only the Palestinians or attack their culture....

[oberliner]

20. He said that Palestinians make every conceivable wrong decision

Not sure what else one can say about that comment.

[azurnoir]

26. what is your point here you have been up and down this thread repeating the same quote

do you feel it is racist do you expect others to? If not what is your purpose here?

[oberliner]

28. My point is that some sources are condemned as being bigoted

And these comments appear to fit into a similar category, yet he is praised to the highest in this article.

[azurnoir]

31. yes some sources are condemed for bigotry however Strenger is not one of them

his assessment in this article was quite right on, the quote that you cite came from an article that was written a few days into OCL, when he was defending Israel's actions something that Seth Friedman whom I have seen at least one poster call an antisemite also did at first, however within a couple of weeks both seemed to change their tunes if you will

[oberliner]

32. Exactly - and I ask why he is not one of them considering those remarks

That is perplexing even in light of the context you've provided.

[azurnoir]

33. Most likely for the same reason(s) Seth Friedman is not

considered a bigot by Pro-Palestinian or anti-occupation people, because one sentence or even one article does not make one a total bigot at least not to reasoning people

[oberliner]

35. What did Seth write that was bigoted?

Do you have an example?

[LeftishBrit]

36. I don't think that in its context it's truly bigoted

If it were said JUST about the Palestinians, then it would be. But Strenger seems to be highly critical of both Israeli and Palestinian political choices. And in the context it is clearly about *political* wrong choices, rather than wrong lifestyle or cultural choices.

I think it was badly phrased, in that Palestinians have very diverse political views, so that rather than 'Palestinians' it would have been better to have said 'Palestinian governments' or even 'a plurality of Palestinian voters'.

But it's not on the level of saying, as some have, that Palestinians have 'a culture of death'. Similarly saying that 'Israelis make every conceivable wrong decision' in a political context is not the same thing as 'Israelis are genocidal supremacists'. Such remarks about 'wrong decisions' may ignore the fact that Palestinians have rarely been presented with good alternatives in elections, or that Israelis have a voting system that leads to disproportionate power for extremist parties that get relatively few votes. But so long as they are describing the Palestinians and Israelis in terms of voting constituencies (as I think is the case here) rather than cultures, I don't find them bigoted or exceptionalist.

Suppose that someone were to say, 'First Norman Tebbit; then Ian Duncan-Smith! The voters of Chingford make every conceivable wrong decision!' Or 'Thurmond! Sanford! DeMint! The voters of South Carolina make every conceivable wrong decision!' Such statements would doubtless be annoying to a Labour voter in Chingford or a South Carolina Democrat - but they wouldn't be racist or even especially bigoted IMO.

[Violet_Crumble]

34. Bit of a kick just in case anyone missed reading this really good article n/t