Josh Marshall - Into the Abyss

[Pirate Smile]

Into the Abyss
Josh Marshall | December 28, 2010, 10:18PM

Two extremely depressing pieces I've seen recently about the situation in Israel. This post
by Jeff Goldberg. And this oped by Majallie Whbee in the Jerusalem Post. In the latter case, the critical context is the the fact that Whbee is an Israeli Druze (an ethno-religious group with a strong historic alliance with Zionism) who until a few years ago was a member of the Likud. Now he's an MK with Kadima.

All this for the heroin of the settlements.

Late Update: TPM Reader JE sends in these recent comments from David Remnick.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/12/into_the_abyss_1.php?ref=fpblg

Here are the articles Josh is talking about and links to:

What If Israel Ceases to Be a Democracy?

Dec 27 2010, 3:32 PM ET

Is it actually possible that one day Israelis -- Jewish Israelis -- would choose to give up democracy in order to maintain Israel's Jewish voting majority? Some people, of course, argue that Israel has ceased to be a democracy, because there is nothing temporary about the 43-year-old occupation of the West Bank. I believe it is premature to talk about the end of Israel as a democratic state -- mainly because the disposition of the West Bank is still undecided -- but I can't say that the thought hasn't crossed my mind that one day Israelis will make the conscious, active decision to preserve the state's Jewish character instead of its democratic character (I use the word "Jewish" in the demographic sense, not the moral sense, obviously).

As I wrote last week, there's very little Israel's right-wing government has done in the past year or so to suggest that it is willing to wean itself from its addiction to West Bank settlements, and the expansion of settlements bodes ill for the creation of a Palestinian state -- and the absence of Palestinian statehood means that Israel will one day soon confront this crucial question concerning its democratic nature: Will it grant West Bank Arabs the right to vote, or will it deny them the vote? If it grants them the vote, this will be the end of Israel as a Jewish state; if it denies them the vote in perpetuity, it will cease to be a democratic state.

I will admit here that my assumption has usually been that Israelis, when they finally realize the choice before them (many have already, of course, but many more haven't, it seems), will choose democracy, and somehow extract themselves from the management of the lives of West Bank Palestinians. But I've had a couple of conversations this week with people, in Jerusalem and out of Jerusalem, that suggest to me that democracy is something less than a religious value for wide swaths of Israeli Jewish society. I'm speaking here of four groups, each ascendant to varying degrees:The haredim, the ultra-Orthodox Jews, whose community continues to grow at a rapid clip; the working-class religious Sephardim -- Jews from Arab countries, mainly -- whose interests are represented in the Knesset by the obscurantist rabbis of the Shas Party; the settler movement, which still seems to get whatever it needs in order to grow; and the million or so recent immigrants from Russia, who support, in distressing numbers, the Putin-like Avigdor Lieberman, Israel's foreign minister and leader of the "Israel is Our Home" party.

Let's just say, as a hypothetical, that one day in the near future, Prime Minister Lieberman's government (don't laugh, it's not funny) proposes a bill that echoes the recent call by some rabbis to discourage Jews from selling their homes to Arabs. Or let's say that Lieberman's government annexes swaths of the West Bank in order to take in Jewish settlements, but announces summarily that the Arabs in the annexed territory are in fact citizens of Jordan, and can vote there if they want to, but they won't be voting in Israel. What happens then? Do the courts come to the rescue? I hope so. Do the Israeli people come to the rescue? I'm not entirely sure. There are many Israelis who value democracy, but they might not possess the strength to fight. Does American Jewry come to the rescue? Well, most of American Jewry would be so disgusted by Israel's abandonment of democratic principles that I think the majority would simply write off Israel as a tragic, failed experiment.
Am I being apocalyptic? Yes. Am I exaggerating the depth of the problem? I certainly hope so. Israel is still a remarkably vibrant democracy, with a free press and an independent judiciary. But on the other hand, the Israel that I see today is not the Israel I was introduced to more than twenty years ago. The rise to power of the four groups I mentioned above has changed, in some very serious ways (which I will write about later) the nature and character of the Jewish state.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2010/12/what-if-israel-ceases-to-be-a-democracy/68582/

Has racism become acceptable?
By MAJALLIE WHBEE
12/20/2010 23:48

As a proud Israeli, born and raised here, I find the silence emanating from the higher echelons in the face of incitement and defamation insulting and saddening
Discussions with racist flavors are gaining a central role in general discourse. The moderate public is increasingly aligning itself more with opinions that were previously reserved for radical elements, giving them a level of legitimacy within the mainstream public and media to articulate them.

The now famous rabbis’ letter is just one of many examples of the growing racist opinions spreading throughout large sections of the public. The problem lays not within the racists themselves, but rather in the weak response from the higher echelons and decision-makers. Hundreds of rabbis sign a manifesto prohibiting Jews from renting or selling apartments to non-Jews, yet no response is heard from the justice minister. The chief rabbi of Safed, Shmuel Eliahu, continuously incites and no criminal or disciplinary procedures were commenced against him.

The feeling is that racism has become acceptable; not only by society but also by a government that has not taken any action but to oppose it feebly (and this, only from a few ministers).
As a proud Israeli, born and raised here, and serving as a public representative, I find this reality insulting and it saddens me. I raised my children to believe that they are citizens with equal rights, but today we encounter a different reality, a reality in which is legitimate to defame in the name of religion.
THIS REALITY is difficult for me personally, but it is more dangerous to the country, as society unravels from within, and invokes defamation from abroad. Internally, we are becoming a series of disconnected tribes.

-snip-
When the central leadership of Europe turns its back on Israel, we take comfort in the arms of radicals, just because they prefer at this stage to pursue Muslims rather than Jews.
It’s time to stop and rethink before it is too late. We must consider if this is the society we want, if the current tone is worthy of expression and if these are the people worthy of our friendship.
My answer is definitely not. The State of Israel is too important to be pushed to the corner of extreme racism. To prevent it from deteriorating, the prime minister and the justice minister should set a clear and unequivocal statement that the government will embrace a zerotolerance policy toward racism, a statement that needs to be backed by actions.

The writer is a deputy speaker of the Knesset and a Kadima MK.

http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=200328

New Yorker editor David Remnick to Yediot: ‘I can’t take the Occupation anymore’

On December 24 2010, Yediot’s Friday Political Supplement ran an interview with New Yorker editor David Remnick by Adi Gold. Most of the interview was dedicated to his new biography of Barack Obama. Gold did ask a political question on Israel and Reminck’s response was very blunt. Note that this is a reverse translation (Hebrew original of section here.)

Do you see a certain change in the US Jewish community?

“A new generation of Jews is growing up in the US. Their relationship with Israel is becoming less patient and more problematic. They see what has happened with the Rabbinical Letter , for example. How long can you expect that they’ll love unconditionally the place called Israel ? You’ve got a problem. You have the status of an occupier since 1967. It’s been happening for so long that even people like me, who understand that not only one side is responsible for the conflict and that the Palestinians missed an historic opportunity for peace in 2000, can’t take it anymore.

“The US administration is trying out of good will to get a peace process moving and in return Israel lays out conditions like the release Jonathan Pollard. Sorry, it can’t go on this way. The Jewish community is not just a nice breakfast at the Regency. You think it’s bad that a US President is trying to make an effort to promote peace? That’s what’s hurting your feelings? Give me a break, you’ve got bigger problems. A shopping list in exchange for a two month moratorium on settlement construction? Jesus (sic).”

http://coteret.com/2010/12/26/new-yorker-editor-david-remnick-to-yediot-i-cant-take-the-occupation-anymore/

edit to add - I just noticed a Joe Klein response to Jeffrey Goldberg's piece:

Israel Arrgh

Posted by Joe Klein Wednesday, December 29, 2010 at 11:01 am
5 Comments

Jeffrey Goldberg, ever the honest broker when it comes to Israel's strengths and weaknesses, is worried about the future of democracy there. I'm more worried about the future of civility, the demonizing and dehumanization of the Palestinians; and the fierce potential for violence, especially renewed terrorism, given the blatantly illegal provocations of the Jewish settlers. Democracy is a supple form of government; it can be contorted to cater to ethnic whims--and Israeli democracy is a particularly clever animal, prone to rationalizations of all sorts. It is entirely possible that Israel could emerge as democratic and despicable.

On the other hand, it is good to remember that the moderate Kadima party won the largest percentage of votes in the last election, even though the ultra-Orthodox, Settlers, Sephardim and Russian immigrant populations are growing rapidly. And Israel's recent economic prosperity is an achievement that the vast majority of citizens want to preserve and build upon. But Goldberg's worries are certainly justified. I share them.

Read more: http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/12/29/israel-arrgh/#ixzz19WjReNtC

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. The right wing is Israel is taking the country down a dark and very dangerous path

The author is absolutely correct when he offers that Israelis will someday have to publicly choose democracy or apartheid.

[Pirate Smile]

2. It feels a little bit like how the rest of the world must of felt when watching Bush & Cheney in

charge of the US - after 9/11, during the run-up and after the Iraq invasion but before Cheney was more marginalized later during the second term. You are just kind of watching in horror, thinking "What the hell are they doing? Have they lost their minds? This is madness."

[oberliner]

3. There is a major demographic problem for Israel

Israelis used to talk about what would happen demographically with respect to the Arab population; however, the real demographic problem for Israel is with respect to the ultra-orthodox Jewish population.

While this group currently only makes up a small percentage of the Israeli population, they are growing at a much faster rate than all other demographics in Israel. These families have on average eight to ten children which is significantly higher than that of the rest of the population.

This population tends to be more right-wing than their non-orthodox Jewish counterparts (although certain secular populations do give them a run for their money, i.e. Avigdor Lieberman) and so one wonders what happens as this group grows in size and influence while the rest of the population, especially those who tend to identify as leftists, see their numbers wane.

[Pirate Smile]

4. I know. It's frightening. It feels like they should be reaching some type of breaking point within

the coalition government - especially with Lieberman.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pirate Smile]

6. "What panics me is that the Israel that I see today is not the Israel I thought I knew only 2 years

ago. Avigdor Lieberman is the de facto leader of the country, commanding its foreign policy, defying its prime minister, enraging allies, forswearing any peace."

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/01/what-if-israel-ceases-to-be-a-democracy.html

Andrew Sullivan's comment on the posts/issues in the OP.