Rabbis' wives: Don't date Arabs

[Scurrilous]

New letter signed by rabbis' wives appeals to women urging them to stay away from Arabs. 'As soon as they have in you in their grasp – everything becomes different. Attention will be replaced with curses, physical abuse and humiliation,' letter states

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4005896,00.html

<snip>

"Twenty-seven prominent rabbis' wives signed a letter distributed by the 'Lehava' organization calling on Jewish women not to date Arabs, work in places where Arabs are employed or volunteer for National Service with them.

The letter's instigators say that its goal is to prevent assimilation and romantic relationships between Jewish women and Arab men."

[stevenleser]

1. Ugh. n/t

[arcane1]

2. Nope, no racism there!

:puke:

[rucky]

3. I also heard they have horns

and don't use toilet paper.

[Crunchy Frog]

21. The Arabs or the rabbis' wives?

[oberliner]

4. Orthodox Jewish parents have always tried to discourage their children from dating/marrying non-Jews

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that observant Muslims parents also try to discourage their children from dating/marrying non-Muslims.

[SheilaT]

5. As do most parents who are very religious.

There is a very strong preference for the children to marry within the religion.

[azurnoir]

7. okay I know of a Jewish parent that did everything in his power

which at the time was considerable to discourage his daughter from dating/marrying a Black man, on the sole basis that he was Black but had no problem with another daughter dating/marrying and converting to a Christian fundamentalist

ETA just we're clear the Christian guy was White

[shira]

8. Same for devout Catholic or Protestant parents not wanting their kids to intermarry. n/t

[mudplanet]

18. And reactionary Catholics prohibit their kids from marrying non-Catholics

There are creeps in every religion

[bengalherder]

6. They will make you sit at the back of the bus...

...and not allow you to have pictures taken of yourself....oh wait...

[Ken Burch]

9. Well, if they ARE rabbis' wives, they shouldn't be dating anybody...

...oh, did you mean something ELSE?...

[whosinpower]

10. You know....

If the situation was reversed....and Arab groups were calling on Arab women not to work with jews, or date jews, or volunteer in national service with jews.....this would be anti-semitic racism.

I am well aware of catholics, protestants and a great variety of religious groups try hard to keep their groups from assimilating others....but it is just plain wrong.

I am reminded of a story told by my mother of a neighbor. She fell in love with a man who was catholic - and she wasn't. He wanted to marry her, but she was concerned about the religion thing. Inevitably they broke off. He eventually remarried, but she never did. Years, decades later, she is in the hospital in grave health. She tells my mother to contact Charlie as there is something she needs to tell him before she dies. My mother does so. Charlie is now in his late eighties, widowed and not in great health either. Nevertheless, he is overjoyed to hear that this person wants to reconnect with him.
She wanted to tell him that she made a mistake, all those years ago, on a cold Christmas morning. She wanted to apologise. She did so, and he forgave her.
This all sounds great so far, in a sad sort of way. BUT, this summer there was a reunion, and Charle was there, with our neighbor. They were inseperable. You would think the neighborhood would be happy that two old souls would be able to find a bit of happiness with each others company.
You would be wrong.
The catholics were absolutely outraged. My own aunt phoned my mother and told her in no uncertain terms that our neighbor should....."KEEP HER CLAWS OFF CHARLIE." I kid you not.

It is wrong to try to keep seperate people who are attracted to each other, and might even fall in love. Even if they are Arab and jew. Even if they are eighty something years old.

[oberliner]

11. If the situation was reversed?

You don't think it is?

[whosinpower]

12. Are you trying to defend this

With the arguement - "They do it too?"

I stand by my heartfelt conviction that this is wrong. It is wrong for the catholics to do it. It is wrong for the protestants to do it. It is wrong for any faith to do this.

And I looked on the net - could not find any article about an Arab group telling its Arab women not to date jews, or work with them, etc, etc. I am sure it does happen - but I could not find anything. I might have been using the wrong keywords.

[oberliner]

13. Are you kidding?

Jeez - you couldn't find any articles on the net about Arab groups telling its Arab women not to date Jews. Guess that settles that then!

Do you have any idea how marriage and "dating" work among observant Muslim Palestinians?

Here is some very basic information from the net that may help you understand:

Under no conditions is a Muslim woman permitted to marry anyone but a Muslim man.

The same verse cited above (2:221) mentions, "Nor marry your girls to unbelievers until they believe. A man slave who believes is better than an unbeliever...." No exception is given for women to marry Jews and Christians, so the law stands that she may only marry a believing (Muslim) man. As head of the household, the husband provides leadership for the family. A Muslim woman does not follow the leadership of someone who does not share her faith and values.

http://islam.about.com/od/marriage/a/interfaithmarriage.htm

Muslim women can marry only chaste Muslim men

There are many Muslim girls of a marriageable age who are living in non-Islamic countries, and it is the duty of the Muslim men to protect these girls from marrying non-Muslim men, which is absolutely prohibited in Islam.

http://www.islamfortoday.com/interfaithmarriage.htm

[whosinpower]

15. So you are using their standard then - got it.

As I wrote - I was sure it did happen. You apparently glossed over those words.

And because they "do it too" it must be ok.

My arguement is that it is not ok. I would also argue that religion, as a whole, seems to place the onus on the women - that is that it is not ok for them to date or marry outside their faith....but it never seems to take issue with the muslim men dating outside their faith....same with all the others.

[oberliner]

16. I am noting that observant people of various religions succumb to this same phenomenon

In a perfect world, religion and ethnicity and race and gender and the like would not stand in the way of people dating one another. However this is not the case, especially (but not exclusively) among the very religious.

You will note that the concern seems to be over who the girls date/marry rather than the boys.

You don't see as many admonitions with respect to the male side.

Patriarchy at work perhaps?

[whosinpower]

17. I did note that

Couple of weeks ago, there was a debate on the radio with Tony Blair and Christopher Hitchens regarding Religion being a force for good or ill in the world.

Hitchens brought the patriarical nature of all the worlds major religions.

You are right - the world is not perfect. But that should never stop a person from trying to make it better. That should never stop a person from taking a stand and saying that women have rights too.

I will also say this in regards to the Israeli media covering this story. It shows a certain degree of character to put it out there to be openly debated. The very fact that it is controversial, as opposed to being simply accepted is healthy, in my opinion. There is push back against this.

snip from article on Jerusalem Post -

In their statement, the Reform rabbis noted four “sins” in the rebbetzins’ appeal: “the sin of racism and hating the Arab residents and citizens living among us here... the sin of insulting condescension aimed at our girls... who are presented as helpless and objects of manipulation...

the sin of chauvinism, in addressing the letter only to women, while the rates of men marrying non-Jewish women are much higher than those of women marrying non-Jews... sin of an exile mind-set, in creating a discourse of fear and seclusion that does not suit a nation safely living on its land.”

While stating their objection to interfaith marriages, a ceremony they would not conduct, the women rabbis noted their positive outlook on social and professional connections “between ourselves, our daughters and our sons, and all citizens and residents of the State of Israel, regardless of religion, race and sex.”

The statement added that “Jews confident in their Jewish identity should not fear contacts with people of other races,” which, it said, are the foundation for the construction of a tolerant, healthy and sustainable society. “There is no point in preserving our heritage without keeping its command of being better people, worthy of God’s image in which we were created.”

[LeftishBrit]

14. Absolutely. But of course it *is* reversed in many Arab countries

No excuse for it happening in Israel of course.

No excuse for it happening in Northern Ireland (the Protestant/Catholic thing)

No excuse for it anywhere.

Of course, intercultural dating is one of the strongest weapons against the long-term survival of racism and bigotry. Which is one reason why racists and bigots of all sorts are so strongly against it. (I am sure that one reason why the teabaggers HATE Obama so much is that he is not only black, but the product of interracial marriage.)


Your story is sad, moving and infuriating at the same time.

[mudplanet]

19. Favorite scene from Annie Hall. Woody Allen is having Thanksgiving

dinner with Annie's parents and her grandmother. Woody looks down the table and grandma is glaring at him. POV shot from grandma's perspective: Woody is dressed as a Hasidim with a long beard.

[Crunchy Frog]

22. I think it was actually Easter dinnner

and all this was happening while Woody was talking about the "dynamite ham" they were eating.

I didn't actually "get it" when I saw it because I was really young and didn't know anything about comparative religions, but I still remember the scene, and "get it" now.

[mudplanet]

23. that scene, and the cut from Chritopher Walken telling Woody about

his dream of turning into the ongoing traffic while driving to the shot of Woody, Annie and Christopher in the front seat of the car on the way to the airport and Woody looking terrified.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. I would hope that any wife of a rabbi would not be dating Arab men on the side.

That's a position I can completely agree with. Get a divorce first.