Egyptians strike in front of Israeli Embassy, demand severed ties with Israel

[King_David]

Heba Afify Sat, 09/04/2011 - 03:58

Around 1000 Egyptians protested in front of the Israeli Embassy in Cairo on Friday amid heavy military presence, demanding the severing of all diplomatic and economic ties with Israel.

--------------------snip----------------

Protesters burnt Israeli flags as passers by showed their support by honking their car horns. People came out in nearby balconies holding the Palestinian flag.

Protesters gave out flyers calling for a “Third Palestinian Intifada” that aims at returning Palestinian refugees on the coming 15 May, which will be the day of the 63rd anniversary of the 1948 Arab defeat before Israel. The flyer read that refugees are planned to be taken in buses from 30 different points along the Palestinian borders with Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon. Protests are scheduled on 13 May ahead of the move.

The "Third Palestinian Intifada" was first called for on Facebook. After getting some 330,000 followers, the page was shut down by the Facebook administration on 29 March as Israel reportedly appealed to the social networking site CEO Mark Zuckerberg, claiming that the page calls for the murder of jews and the destruction of the state of Israel.

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/392108

[defendandprotect]

1. And presume if Egypt were to get its democracy -- rather than the foot dragging

going on by the military in control of the nation -- that would be the

likely outcome.

[King_David]

2. And undo Carters Camp David Accords

And save USA taxpayers Billions in aid to Egypt.

[defendandprotect]

4. Don't think Carter or Sadat envisioned what has happened re Palestine --

times are changing re Israel --

[oberliner]

3. No it wouldn't

Poll: Majority of Egyptians support maintaining Israel peace

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/poll-majority-of-egyptians-support-maintaining-israel-peace-1.354642

[defendandprotect]

5. I'm sure they want peace not only for Israel but for Palestine, as well --

in fact they are for a Palestinian state --

Palestinians lived on this land for thousands of years --

and Israel continues to build illegal settlements --


A promiment Israel diplomat rssigned about a month ago saying he could

not longer represent Israel given their policies in Palestine --

that Israel was becoming a "pariah" given those policies -- becoming

isolated in the world -- and had already de-legitimized themselves.


I agree --

[oberliner]

6. The majority do not want to sever ties as you falsely claimed

The survey shows that not to be the case.

[defendandprotect]

7. Times are changing --- and Israeli policies in Palestine/Gaza are very clear to Egyptians...

[King_David]

8. I do not think you got a good grasp of this topic nt

[defendandprotect]

10. I don't think you understand how detested worldwide Israeli policies in Palestine are -- !!

EVERYWHERE --

[oberliner]

13. Why do you think that is?

Israel is one of the least popular countries in the world, often ranking below Iran and North Korea.

Why do you think that is the case?

[defendandprotect]

23. How did you miss the point about their policies? Especially coming from one of their own

diplomats -- ???

Do I need to repeat it for you?

Israel is becoming a "pariah" he said -- isolated in the world --

because of their POLICIES -- REPEAT POLICIES IN PALESTINE --

and that they have already de-legitimized themselves.

[oberliner]

40. So you think their standing in world opinion is understandable?

Makes perfect sense to you that they would be viewed as unfavorably as they are with respect to other countries and regimes?

[King_David]

21. Oh I understand it only too well:

Not only do I understand ''how detested worldwide Israeli policies in Palestine are -- !!''




BUT :




I understand:



how detested worldwide Israel is -- !!



'' World attitudes toward Israel widely negative ''


http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/rosner/entry/world_attitudes_toward_israel_widely





and I understand :



how detested worldwide Jews are -- !!



''ADL Survey in Seven European Countries Finds Anti-Semitic Attitudes Steady; 31 Percent Blame Jews for Financial Crisis ''

http://www.adl.org/PresRele/ASInt_13/5465_13.htm




''Overwhelmingly negative attitudes toward Jews in Islamic countries''

http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/en/news/8958








So what is your point ?


.

[defendandprotect]

24. POLICIES ... IS THE KEY ... not "anti-semiitism" if that's what you're trying to suggest --

In fact, Israel has had tremendous support post-WWII --

it is their POLICIES IN PALESTINE which have turned that support around!!


And, of course, you get that point -- otherwise you wouldn't be trying to

suggest it is something else!!

[King_David]

33. All I was showing you

Is that if the whole world opposses Israel`s policies it means sweet fuck all.

The world would oppose ANY policy of Israel.

The whole world opposes Jews and Israel too.

Your argument proves NOTHING !!




"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions."-Abba Eban

[defendandprotect]

35. The only reason that Israeli policies prevail is because US needs the foothold in Israel ...

You really think the US right wing will do more than use Israel for warmongering

and warmaking in the area and then love them some more when they no longer need them?

Remember Nixon? Did he love Israel? He helped destroy Israel in arming right wing

Israeli fundamentalists which gave Nixon his foothold in ME!

[King_David]

37. This was said way before any of what you call ''their POLICIES IN PALESTINE ''

"If Algeria introduced a resolution declaring that the earth was flat and that Israel had flattened it, it would pass by a vote of 164 to 13 with 26 abstentions."-Abba Eban


LOL

[Codeine]

51. Really? It's "policy" that makes them more disliked than North Korea?

Delusional.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Boojatta]

9. "Palestinians lived on this land for thousands of years"

How do you know that? Normans haven't lived in England for thousands of years.

It's also not clear why it matters how long Palestinians have lived in Palestine. People of Japanese descent haven't been living in North America for thousands of years, but I don't think that is a legitimate excuse for the internment camps of WWII.

[defendandprotect]

11. Palestinians haven't lived on the land for a thousand years?

I'm sure that will be a surprise to them!

What is quite clear is that the majority of Israelis are Europeans -- not Arabs.

Palestine is an occupied nation -- and Israel continues to build illegal settlements.

[oberliner]

12. You have an easily disproven false statement in this post

You wrote that "the majority of Israelis are Europeans - not Arabs" - which is definitely not true.

Again, not sure where you are getting your inaccurate information from, but you should consider other sources.

Also, when you say that "Palestine is an occupied nation" - are you talking about Palestine as being the West Bank and Gaza or the West Bank, Gaza, and what is currently Israel?

[Boojatta]

14. "Europeans -- not Arabs."

"European" is obviously a geographic designation that in some cases is associated with citizenship. In the case of some but not all Israelis, it might indicate where some of their ancestors resided in the past for some length of time.

"Arabs" might have something to do with culture (such as language in particular) or ancestry.

From my point of view, there are Arabs who are Americans and there are Arabs who are Europeans. Of course, not everybody will agree with me. For example, John McCain might think otherwise. He deduced for one of his supporters the conclusion that candidate Obama wasn't an Arab by starting from the assumption that Obama was a good American. What is your concept of "European" that excludes "Arab"?

[oberliner]

16. Firstly, over 60 percent of Israelis have nothing to do with Europe

And that's even in spite of the recent mass immigration of Jews from the former Soviet Union.

The majority of Israelis are not from Europe. The majority of Israeli Jews are not from Europe.

[Boojatta]

20. Okay, that was the first thing you needed to tell me. What is second?

[oberliner]

38. Secondly, that post was meant as a response to the other poster, not to you

Sorry for the confusion.

[defendandprotect]

26. The majority of Israeli Jews are not from PALESTINE ....

clear enough to cure your sematics-game-playing?

[oberliner]

39. The majority of Israeli Jews were born in Israel

As were their parents.

If you are talking about their ancestors, the majority are not from Europe.

[defendandprotect]

22. More semantics? Israelis are immigrants -- they are not native to Palestine ...

usually former Europeans -- but descendants of those displaced by Holocaust in Germany.

[Boojatta]

25. "Israelis are immigrants -- they are not native to Palestine"

In what country did the language Hebrew originate? Was it invented by Moses while he was living in Egypt?

[defendandprotect]

27. Do you not know that Hebrew is an Afro-Asian language? And you're suggesting that

all Israelis who speak Hebrew are Afro-Asian?

What connection to today's Israelis has Moses other than Hebrew as a second language?

[Boojatta]

29. My suggestion was intended for the young at heart. You can simply ignore it.

Your statement: "Israelis are immigrants -- they are not native to Palestine"

My question: In what country did the language Hebrew originate?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mosby]

41. Jews have lived in the ME including what is now Israel

For thousands of years.

You really didn't know that?

[Shaktimaan]

42. Some are. Most are not.

20% are non Jews native to the region. And around 60% of the remainder are either from the Middle East or are descended from Middle Eastern Jews who emigrated to Israel. That said I'm still not sure what your... Since it was founded by Europeans then it has no right to exist? Or something else entirely?

I find three immediate problems with this line of argument. First of all, because of the nature of the Diaspora, Jews didn't hold a majority population anywhere in the world. They were spread out all over the globe. Therefore you could use the argument "So many of them are immigrants," no matter what region they settled in. Which is basically a tool for denying a group its right to self-determination (a right this group was in dire need of expressing due to violent anti-semitism.) Essentially using previous instances of discrimination against Jews in order to justify continued discrimination.

The second is that many Palestinians are themselves not native to Palestine. They are from all over. Some were recent immigrants just before the nakba. Some never lived in Palestine but claimed Palestinian heritage, like Arafat, who was Egyptian. And now the majority of Palestinian refugees, who are the sons and grandsons of the original refugees, have never set foot in Palestine. Just as most Israeli descendants of European settlers have never been to Poland. (So, if the Diaspora is a sufficient excuse to deny Jews the right to settle in Palestine then why isn't the Nakba as well?) To say that Israel/Palestine is the rightful property of one group at the expense of the other based on lineage is arbitrary. Why you would grant an Egyptian Arab special rights to Palestine denied to a Libyan Jew on the basis of "nativity" is beyond me.

The third is the simplest. European Jews were afforded the legal right to settle in Palestine by every authority available at the time. They purchased land as opposed to merely taking it. Their presence there was a boon to the area, which is what spurred immigration from Arab states for the first time in decades. It simply doesn't matter that they were not from there originally. Being populated by the descendants of immigrants has never been used as an argument against the validity of a state.

[Boojatta]

45. "Being populated by the descendants of immigrants has never been used ...

... as an argument against the validity of a state."

I suspect that at least one person has used it as an argument against the validity of the nation-state known as "Israel."

[Codeine]

50. Really? You don't know there were Jews there before the Holocaust?

Honestly?

[Boojatta]

15. There seems to be a communication problem here.

I asked:

How do you know that? Normans haven't lived in England for thousands of years.

You replied:

Palestinians haven't lived on the land for a thousand years?

I'm sure that will be a surprise to them!

In asking how you know what you claim to know, I'm neither agreeing that your claim is true nor denying that your claim is true. My focus is entirely on the process that you used.

Indeed, I could easily make a claim that is very likely true and that I believe to be true, but that I don't actually know to be true. For example, I could put bounds on the highest and lowest temperatures outdoors today in some city, without myself checking any weather reports.

[defendandprotect]

28. There is a communications problem -- and it is soley created by those here who

do not want to discuss Israel and its policies towards Palestine --

nor its brutal occupation -- not it's illegal settlements.

So much for ... "Oh, but I/P isn't a forum to keep it a taboo subject" -- !!

:rofl:

[Boojatta]

32. The governments of Egypt and Israel signed a peace treaty.

Was that a bad idea? This thread is about protesters in Egypt who want to discontinue diplomatic "ties" between Egypt and Israel.

[defendandprotect]

34. The forum is about Israel/Palestine -- Egyptians are witnesses to Israeli policies ...

And both leaders who particiapted in the PEACE agreement were almost immediately dead.

And Carter was fairly much harassed out of office by right wing attacks on him, including

covert activities by CIA -- especially connected to the hostage rescues.

It's an agreement which has been perverted by the rightwing.

[sabbat hunter]

48. actually

Begin lived for a long time after the Camp David accords. He did leave office after his wife died. But Begin died of natural causes long after the accords were signed.

[Boojatta]

52. Thank you for participating in this discussion.

[azurnoir]

17. I suggest that people read the aarticle what is posted here hides the actual reason for the protest

The protest is actually in support of the Palestinians something one would not know if only what is posted in the OP, my snip 'hides' one paragraph and is only snipped out to stay within rules but really read the article

The protest was prompted by the recent Israel attacks on Gaza. Israeli forces have been attacking the strip since Thursday causing a total of 17 casualties and tens of injuries in retaliation to a missile attack on an Israeli school bus, which was launched from a Hamas-controlled territory the same day causing two injuries.

Protesters demanded the expulsion of the Israeli ambassador in Egypt and yelled “bring down the flag, we don’t want it,” referring to the Israeli flag on top of the embassy’s building. They also called on the Egyptian Government to stop exporting gas to Israel and to open the Rafah border crossing for Palestinians.

Protesters also called for refugees’ right of return. Official UN records say there are 4.7 million Palestinian refugees around the world. Egypt hosts an estimated 50,000 of them.

<snip>


A high-ranking military officer tried to address the protesters but they yelled, “get down” and told him that their demands are not negotiable. The officer assured them that he agrees with all demands and that he will deliver them to the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces.

[Boojatta]

18. "Egypt hosts an estimated 50,000 of them."

What percentage of the 50,000 are legally able to do paid work in Egypt? Are any of the 50,000 prohibited by law from doing paid work in Egypt not because of where they were born, but merely because of where their parents were born?

[azurnoir]

19. hey you tell us cause it must be bad or you most likely would not brought it up n/t

[defendandprotect]

30. Thanks -- it is this game-playing which keeps most people out of I/P which is the

way those here "guarding" the conversation like it!!

Israel is a taboo subject here -- and that's the way they want to keep it!!

It very poorly serves DU and DU'ers however --

[Boojatta]

36. Have you considered the possibility that your words were misunderstood?

For example:

What is quite clear is that the majority of Israelis are Europeans -- not Arabs.

To many people, that will appear to be a reasonably clear statement. However, it seems that the idea you had in mind when you wrote that statement differs significantly from what some people thought you meant.

In my humble opinion, the reason that it differs significantly is that you have been using a kind of code language. I think that you are sincere in the sense that you have encoded an idea and you believe that the idea is true. However, I get the impression that you didn't and don't care whether or not, as plain text, your sentences are true.

Of course, I could be wrong about that, and I hope that you won't interpret the above as a personal attack.

[Boojatta]

43. Has enough time passed to put some perspective on the

various sub-threads of this thread, so that some of the discussions can be productively resumed?

[Boojatta]

44. Maybe productive discussion is possible, but the prospect isn't tempting?

[oberliner]

46. What are your thoughts on the OP?

Please get the ball rolling...

[Boojatta]

47. The OP started the discussion, but it branched out after that ...

... into many branches, and most of the branches fizzled out while remaining unresolved.