Weekly Report: On Israeli Human Rights Violations in the OT

[Resistance]

This is what your tax dollars pays for.

Palestinian Centre for Human Rights

No. 01 /2004

01- 07 January 2004

* 10 Palestinians, mostly civilians, including 4 children, killed by Israeli forces
* 2 of the victims were killed in an extra-judicial assassination
* 1 of the victims was run over by an Israeli settler vehicle
* Israeli forces conducted a series of incursions into Palestinian areas in the West Bank and Gaza Strip
* Houses were raided and a number of Palestinians were arrested

* 28 houses in Rafah, Khan Yunis and Deir al-Balah were destroyed
* More than 150 donums<1> of agricultural land were razed in the Gaza Strip
* 120 donums of agricultural land were confiscated in Deir al-Balah for Israeli settlement activities
* Construction of the “separation wall” in the West Bank continued
* Indiscriminate shelling of Palestinian residential areas continued and a number of Palestinian civilians were injured
* Israeli occupying forces have continued to impose a total siege on the OPTs

[GabysPoppy]

1. Under which category

Is the suicide bomber listed? I don't see a "work related" category

[Resistance]

2. The focus here is on terror committed by the Israeli military

I am sure you can find plenty of news and comment on suicide bombers on CNN or some other U.S. news source.

[GabysPoppy]

3. I'm very sorry

How foolish of me to expect an UNbiased report.

[Resistance]

4. The apparent one-sidedness which you see in this report

Is meant as a remedy to the Western media's lack of reporting in general on Israeli terror and aggression against Palestinians.

In other words, hardly anyone in Western outlets is reporting on the Israeli Army's murders of civilians, their terror strikes, and the constant destruction of homes and neighborhoods. I think that PCHR should be thanked for continuing to produce these weekly reports.

[Gimel]

5. Isn't this report

intentionally and obviously one-sided?

[Resistance]

12. was my post #4

that difficult to understand?

The report is posted to provide information otherwise largely ignored by the elite media.

[Gimel]

27. Credibility

From my experience, however, they lack credibility and should be verified from other sources. For example, the distinction between terrorist and civilian is not clear, the figures are lumped together. A road accident is considered terrorism, and the arrest of terrorists planning suicide attacks is considered a violation of human rights. Not at all an honest record.

[GabysPoppy]

6. If the "sickness" as you say is in the media,

wouldn't the "cure" be to register your complaint with them?

I would Email them these UNbiased or Biased statistics to counter attack their Unbiased or Biased reporting.

I can't see how posting them here will change a problem you perceive.

In other words, you don't amputate an arm when you want to set a broken leg.

[Resistance]

7. If Israel plans to continue terrorizing civilians

Butchering them and plundering their homes, then human rights groups will continue to report on these abuses - I am sorry you don't like it, but that's the way it is.

[GabysPoppy]

8. Just out of curiousity,

Where any of these people counted in your weekly reports?


Dec 25, 2003 - Four Israelis were killed and over 20 wounded in a suicide bombing at a bus stop at the Geha Junction, east of Tel Aviv, near Petah Tikva. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attack.

Oct 4, 2003 - Twenty-one people were killed, including four children, and 60 wounded in a suicide bombing carried out by a female terrorist from Jenin in the Maxim restaurant in Haifa. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the attack.

Sept 9, 2003 - Seven people were killed and over 50 wounded in a suicide bombing at Cafe Hillel on Emek Refaim St., the main thoroughfare of the German Colony neighborhood in Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Sept 9, 2003 - Nine IDF soldiers were killed and 30 people were wounded in a suicide bombing at a hitchhiking post for soldiers outside a main entrance to the Tzrifin army base and Assaf Harofeh Hospital. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

Aug 19, 2003 - Twenty-three people were killed and over 130 wounded when a Palestinian suicide bomber detonated himself on a No. 2 Egged bus in Jerusalem's Shmuel Hanavi neighborhood. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

[Resistance]

9. did my tax dollars pay for their killings?

Like the taxes used to fund IDF killing sprees in the Occupied Territories?

[GabysPoppy]

10. Can't answer that

I haven't seen your tax return.

BTW, are checking your statistics to determine the answer to the question I posed above?

[Resistance]

11. Do you think

a listing of baseball teams would include the names of hockey teams?

This report is on Israeli human rights violations. Why would you think it would include Palestinian human rights violations?

[GabysPoppy]

13. My answers, sorry for the question format

What do sport's teams have to do with your income tax return.? BTW, there are Rangers in both the NHL & Major League Baseball.

I don't know, maybe it would gain credibility if it was even handed and complete. Do you think?

[Resistance]

14. so every report on killings of Palestinians

should also include a full listing of persons killed since ...? (exactly who, and how long do you think?)

[GabysPoppy]

15. At least the same number of times

that Rachel Corrie makes it way on this board.

That sounds fair to me.

[bluesoul]

16. So whenever there is a thread about a suicide attack in Israel

(which are very rare lately, one in few months) we'll mention all the Palestinians civilians killed by IDF, is that a deal GabysPoppy, or would you find that offensive? :shrug:

[GabysPoppy]

18. You know what I find offensive?

I find it offensive that there are deaths.

I find it offensive that this report decides who's blood is worth mentioning.

I find it offensive that you seem to consider even one suicide attack very rare and seemingly unimportant.

I find it offensive that deaths caused other than suicide bombings shouldn't be considered.

I find it offensive that the only solution according to Hamas is to toss every Jew into the sea.

I find it offensive that Arabic nations like Syria, Jordan and Lebanon have abused the Palestinian people for ages.

I find it offensive that "Right of Return" is only a one way street.

I find it offensive when a lunatic, extreme right wing Israeli is pictured as the "typical" Israeli on this board.

Want me to go on?

[bluesoul]

19. You know

I could turn all those statements you gave and put Palestinians instead of Israelis/Jews and it would be just as valid. Especially the one about what a "typical" Palestinians would be. Judging by some even here, a terrorist. It's a two way streety GP, and the other side could easily be offended by the demonizing and generalizing coming from the other side. It's just that you don't see it as generalizing when Palestianians are the ones demonized here...

[GabysPoppy]

20. Then tell me

Other than suicide bombers and Arafat (the biggest crook since Al Capone), what Palestinians have been demonized?

And if you read my post again, I said I find any death offensive so there is no need for your substitution exercise.

And I find it offensive for a person trying to put words in my mouth.

I really try hard not to walk on that two-way streety.

[bluesoul]

22. When one says that the vas majority of Palestinians

support terrorism, that is generalizing and demonizing. When one says that the Palestinians only goal is to eliminate Israelis, that is demonizing. If it was only about Arafat I wouldn't mind. But the term Palestinians used related to all that is offensive, is generalizing and is demonizing. One just needs to scroll through those threads from Jpost and similar articles and others and the comments made, Arafat is barely mentioned, mostly are Palestinians as such. You will never hear me say Israelis are evil people. You will hear me say that about Sharon or his policies. But I will never generalize or call an entire nation or even religion and judge it by some. That's where my problem with some is...

[GabysPoppy]

24. Please back up your statements

Where does it say a vast majority of Palestinians support terrorism?
(Actually the % in the latest poll says a bit less than 50%.)

Where does it say the Palestinians only goal is to eliminate Israel? Please read it again and you will see that it says Hamas.
(your statement would be accurate if you want to say the vast number of Palestinians are members of Hamas. I personally don't believe they are)

[Resistance]

17. That doesn't answer the question

you have been suggesting that each report on Israeli human rights violations should also include some type of listing of other persons killed, going back to some unspecified date. Which persons should each report on Israeli aggression include in its list, and going how far back, do you specifically suggest?

[GabysPoppy]

21. It certainly does answer the question

You just don't like the answer.

[Resistance]

23. No, it doesn't.

Once again, exactly which persons killed, going how far back in time, do you think we should list in every report on Israeli aggression?

"As many times as Rachel Corrie makes it on this board" doesn't even address the questions.

[GabysPoppy]

25. I'm sorry

I've done this merry ground before and quite frankly the ride wasn't worth it.

[Resistance]

26. That is no answer either

Look, you're the one that complained about this report. Now is your chance to suggest some corrections.

Again: Which persons should these reports also list? And how far back in time should they go, when deciding which to include?

[Violet_Crumble]

28. It's already been explained to you...

The report posted is titled: 'Israeli Human Rights Violations in the OT'. If you can explain how any of those examples you posted from a list that does exactly what you are complaining about this report doing, then I'd agree they should be on the list. But what I'd be interested in knowing is what's with all the condemnation because a report doesn't list all victims of the conflict when the very list that you forgot to post a link to does exactly the same thing. If there was a genuine concern over one-sidedness, then I'd expect to see some condemnation from you aimed at the very list you just posted, and if it has some title like 'Victims of terrorism', then you can add a bonus dollop of condemnation for it not having an honest title when it lists soldiers killed :)

A pattern has been emerging in some threads. If the victims of violence aren't on the particular side someone's a partisan of, then whether it's Rachel Corrie, a Palestinian woman in labour stranded at a checkpoint, children killed in the conflict, or a report like this - it must all be denied and rubbished as either lies or biased garbage, just in case anyone should get the silly idea that all victims of the conflict are equal. The approach of the partisan is that it must be drummed into everyone in any threads talking about victims on the other 'side' that in this conflict the worthiness of victims comes down solely to which 'side' of the conflict they're on and that any not seen by the partisan as being of PR value for their 'side' should never ever be mentioned for fear that attention may be diverted from their collection of worthier victims...

Violet...