'I have no father!'

[GabysPoppy]

The shrieks filled the densely packed funeral room for several minutes, announcing the arrival of the immediate family: "I have no father! I have no father!"

The cry hung over the remainder of the funeral service for Eli Tzfira, 48, who left three children fatherless when he died at the hands of a suicide bomber Thursday.

His two daughters are in their 20s; his son by a second marriage is just two years old.

Tzfira's offspring are not the only youngsters he left behind; as the caretaker at an experimental elementary school in Jerusalem, he was known for his concern for the well-being of his many students.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1075349816120&p=1006688055060

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Muddleoftheroad]

2. Thanks

For today's most offensive post so far.

Israeli troops target terrorists who hide in the Palestinian civilian population. If Israel does nothing, the terrorists kill Israeli civilians at will. If Israel does something to target these psychopathic murdering bastards, then we see complaints like yours.

Perhaps the Palestinians might choose to do something about the terrorists in their own midst. Nah, that would make sense.

[Lurking Dem]

3. It's early yet.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

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[Muddleoftheroad]

6. Depth

The problem with the kind of depth you display here is that you can drown in the much of Hamas and the MANY other Palestinian terror groups.

I have never claimed that no Israeli soldier has ever done wrong. It's bound to happen. It happens anytime you have longterm combat situations like this one. Some soldiers have even been prosecuted, as opposed to being turned into national heroes like the death cult members who support the suicide bombers.

However, Israel can and MUST eliminate the terror threats because none of the Palestinians ever even lift a finger to do so. Since the Palestinians allow the terrorists to operate with impunity in their territory, then THEY take on the responsibility for what happens.

If you don't like it, blame the terrorists who are such cowardly slime that they hide behind the skirts of women and the lunchboxes of little kids. Or blame the Palestinian leadership that refuses to make peace, stop supporting terror OR shut down terror. Or blame the Palestinian people who both support and tolerate the terrorists in their midst.

But where I come from, you don't blame police who go after murderers and you don't blame the military that does the same.

[trigz]

7. OK. Would you like to comment on

what happened to Rachel Corrie at all? Terrorist, was she?
I could cite you hundreds of examples where the Israeli military has slaughtered innocents, and I think the fact that you blame these atrocities on the Palestinians themselves, quite disturbing.

In the meantime, would you care to comment on Corrie? Jenin? Anything at all? Is Amnesty International a hate group, in your view? Or do they quite correctly point the finger at war criminals where they find them?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[The Magistrate]

16. Jenin, Sir, Was No Massacre

It was a reasonably straight up fight in close quarters. A little over fifty Arab Palestinians were killed, about half of them armed combatants, and around twenty Israeli soldiers were killed. At the time of the fighting, there were a number of made-up tales circulating, alleging mass graves and scores buried by bull-dozers: all these things proved false on subsequent examiniation by Human Rights Watch. Pointing this out is rather far from claims Nazis did not really attempt to exterminate, over several years, European Jewry, and actually kill many millions of Europe's Jews in facilities built specially for the purpose.

[LostInTheMaise]

9. Corrie was a terrible and sad accident

Hiding in front of moving dozers is very dangerous. Once it is known that the approaching machine will not stop you should jump out of the way. The instinct to survive must prevail over emotion and martydom.

[LostInTheMaise]

5. This is very sad

Why do the PA bombers target innocent people instead of fighting for their cause against soldiers? Targeting innocents will only turn people against their ways of terror.

[Dark Star]

17. One would think, however,

please take a look at the threads in this forum.

It hasn't turned very many people against anything except Israel.

[GabysPoppy]

19. Not surprising at all

Most people have come to this forum with a pre-conceived agenda. In my experience I can recall only one member who might fit your agenda. There might be others but I doubt it.

[Dark Star]

20. What do you think my agenda is?

I found that an odd thing to write.

My agenda is only for people to see Israelis in a different light from the usual way it is portrayed in mainstream media.

Is your agenda to simply fight with other people? Please elucidate.

Thank you.

[GabysPoppy]

24. change the word "agenda" to criteria"

that may make more sense.

I should have been clearer.

[David__77]

10. It is too bad...

The Palestinians would garner much, much more sympathy if they restrained their attacks to the Israeli army and government.

[Dark Star]

18. How could that be possible?

:shrug:

[ex_jew]

11. Eli Tzfira died for Netzarim

Palestinians lob rockets at this insane pocket of settlers. Israel attacks the militants. Palestinians respond. Eli Tzfira is dead. He lost his life because Israel's government has chosen to insert a settlement into the most densely populated area on earth. Why not evacuate the stupid thing and give others a chance to live ? Of course this won't happen - it would be caving into terrorists.

Human shields are the only defense against terrorists. You have to take someone the terrorists care about and LIVE with them in your midst. It helps if you treat them fairly, i.e. like the people YOU care about. If you're not willing to do this, terrorists WILL attack.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. Terrorists care nothing for their own

How many Palestinians were hurt when that psycho female suicide bomber blew herself up?

There are 1 million Arabs living in Israel. Every bomb that blows up in Israel has a good chance of killing Arabs. Only Israel seems to care about that.

[ex_jew]

13. Injustice breeds rage and rage is not careful.

Meanwhile the issue of Netzarim's role in provoking the attack disappears from the discussion.

[The Magistrate]

14. The Netzarim Settlement, Sir

Is a foolish project, that the Israeli government would be wisest to bring to an end.

Still, the argument of provocation is very weak, and it does not work only in one direction, as those who choose to make it seem to think.

Persons who regard Netzarim as such a provocation that they must attempt to kill its inhabitants can hardly expect in reason that their attempts to do so will not provoke energetic reaction by the Israeli military, and must know that when they choose to resist the Israeli soldiers from positions taken among the inhabitants of a densely populated neighborhood, there will inevitably be non-combatants struck by the gunfire. This cannot be lost sight of either.

[ex_jew]

21. Netzarim is a foolish project. Period.

So long as it's there, people will continue to die.

In my mind, asking the Palestinians to behave properly when confronted with the foolish project is itself bootless. Netzarim must go !

[The Magistrate]

22. As A Point Of Curiousity, Sir

Why should people not be expected to behave properly?

[ex_jew]

23. Expect whatever you like.

Just don't act surprised when people who have lost access to half of the darn Gaza Strip for gosh-sakes fail to follow proper procedures, whatever those might be. Ideally of course they would have an army that could blow the invaders to kingdom come, with every possible justification, but since they don't... you know what happens.

[Gimel]

25. Gaza remains Palestinian

The removal of Netzarim is under consideration by the GOI. A plan of "Gaza First" for PA independence has been forwarded many times, only to be reversed due to a wave of terrorism.

Also (added on edit) Gaza communities will be dismantled with Sharon's unilateral disengagement plan:

Prime Minister’s Ariel Sharon’s unilateral disengagement plan that would result in the dismantling of seven Yesha (Judea, Samaria & Gaza) communities. The seven are Ganim, Kadim, Sanur, and Homesh, all in the Shomron, as well as Netzarim, Morag, and Kfar Darom in Gaza.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=56876


Terrorist leaders live in Gaza, including Yassin.

Yassin said that the only way to free the prisoners remaining in Israeli jails is through kidnappings. “Israel only understands force,” said Yassin, claiming also that Hamas, not the Al-Aksa Martyrs Brigade, was responsible for the devastating genocide bombing in Jerusalem Thursday. "Hamas does not claim responsibility for the attacks carried out by other groups. Tomorrow, there will be a videotapes showing the man who carried out the attack reading his will in the tape," said Yassin.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=57049


Israel has not settled half of Gaza:

http://info.jpost.com/C001/Supplements/MapCenter/1.html

[ex_jew]

26. Thank you for the map - I am now better informed.

I'll believe the dismantlement when I see it.