Anti-Semitism in Europe as bad as in 1930s

[dArKeR]

Brussels - The United States ambassador to the European Union said on Thursday that anti-Semitism in Europe was nearly as bad as it was in the 1930s, a decade which saw the rise of German Nazism and led to the extermination of millions of Jews.

Speaking at a dinner given by the American Jewish Committee to launch a Transatlantic Institute in Brussels, Rockwell Schnabel said relations between Europe and the United States had improved since last year's acrimony over the US-led Iraq war.

"There is one issue that we can work on together," he said. "It is to overcome the issue of anti-Semitism which... is indeed - as I understand it and read - getting to a point where it is as bad as it was in the 30s."

He did not elaborate.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1076633100164B261&set_id=1

[mmm]

1. That is the biggest lie ever told

utter and complete garbage

[GabysPoppy]

2. I'm sure that was said 70 years ago also

Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it.

NEVER AGAIN

[mobuto]

5. Its really not true

I'm Jewish, I spend a lot of time in Europe, and I don't know what you're talking about. The resurgence in anti-Semitism since 1967 is very real, but it cannot be compared to prewar anti-Semitism in any way shape or form.

It is an entirely different beast, and your raising of the spectre of the Holocaust manages both to tarnish the memory of that singular event and also to obscure the meaning of this new anti-Semitism.

Your fear is that we forget our history. But there is more than one way of forgetting history. Repeating the same lessons over and over to the point of cliche, to the point where invoking the Holocaust no longer bears meaning, is one way of doing just that.

[Violet_Crumble]

10. Excellent post...

Anti-Semitism in the 1930's was widespread, and openly encouraged by the Nazis and was a mainstay of Nazi values. German nationalism and wounded pride over what Germans saw as harsh punishment in the Treaty of Versailles had them eager to find a scapegoat, and the Jewish people became that scapegoat. If the EU was forming a special Jewish Bureau like the one formed by the Nazis with Eichmann at its head in 1936, if pogroms were happening (Kristallnacht happened in 1938, if the EU was discussing either killing whole sections of populations or coming up with something like the Madagascar Plan, then every man and his dog should be seeing the similarities and shouting blue murder. But like you said, the anti-Semitism now is nothing at all like what happened in the 1930's...

What concerns me when I see people doing a 'The Holocaust Is Coming!!' sort of argument is that it's just the mirror-image of what others do when they bring up the Holocaust in the same way to criticise Israels treatment of the Palestinians. In both cases it's wrong, and apart from tarnishing the memory of the Holocaust and its victims, it could end up becoming a Boy Who Cried Wolf thing and if the unthinkable were ever to start happening again (and there were more than enough clues of what was to come back in the 30's), the people who need to sit up and take notice and do something might write it off as just another false alarm...

Violet...

on edit: Does anyone know if the State Department appoints ambassadors based on their ability to put both feet in their mouth at the same time? We've got one of them here who thought it was just fine to openly criticise what was said by our Opposition in Parliament, a definate no-no...

[Jim Sagle]

3. Got evidence?

[bemildred]

8. Well, there is this:

More Jews leaving E. Europe move to Germany than Israel

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=53191

I don't believe Jews were moving to Germany in large numbers
in the 30s.

[_Jumper_]

4. Evidence?

That is a very serious charge. All we know of is a few isolated incidents carried out by young thugs, which occur in America too. Surely no one thinks that conditions for Muslims in the USA rival that of German Jews in 1930's. We have a poll saying that 18% of Britons don't want a Jewish PM. In America we have a poll saying that 38% of Americans would not vote for a Muslim presidential candidate. Again, surely no one thinks that conditions for US Muslims rivals that of German Jews in the 1930's. Also, since anti-Semitism against Arabs is far greater in Europe than anti-Semitism against Jews, if anti-Jewish hatred is indeed at a 1930's level shouldn't we be expecting some drastic action against Arabs soon?

[mobuto]

6. Please don't use anti-Semitism to refer to Arabs

This isn't about the semantic definitions of what groups are "Semites" and which aren't - the word anti-Semite simply means "anti-Jew" in English. There is no recent etymological precedent for using it to refer to any other "Semitic" groups.

You can just as well argue that the word "sinister" should not be used in its conventional context because its semantic components literally mean "left-handed," and not evil or bad, but that doesn't really fly. Its conventional usage that counts, and your decision to adopt an unconventional usage just muddies the debate.

[_Jumper_]

7. Okay

However, the semantics were not relevant to the point I raised. If Arabs are hated more than Jews shouldn't we expect something sinister to happen to them soon, if hatred of Jews is at 1930's levelS?

[Fight_n_back]

9. False premise

"Arabs" are not hated more than Jews. There are more Arabs and Muslims than there are people who hate Arabs. There aren't more Jews than anyone except maybe Basques.

[ET Awful]

11. Hmmm. . .

""Arabs" are not hated more than Jews. There are more Arabs and Muslims than there are people who hate Arabs. There aren't more Jews than anyone except maybe Basques."


Except maybe for Native Americans.

[bluesoul]

12. Arabs

are hated more! Just see US forums...

[Fight_n_back]

24. Look at FBI hate crime stats

Jews are attacked twice as often as Arabs. Of course nobody gets whacked more than blacks.

[_Jumper_]

27. Population

That's because Jews outnumber Arabs in America about 5-to-1. Proportionately, Arabs are attacked more and I bet the same is true in Europe.

Has a U.S. ambassoder ever denounced anti-Arab hatred, which is far more greater in Europe?

[_Jumper_]

14. They are in Europe

n/t

[mobuto]

15. Absolutely not

Arabs may be the subject of discrimination in many parts of the world, but many groups have, at one time or another, been the subject of discrimination.

I know Jews who were alive in Germany in the 1930s. To compare their lot with that of Arabs today is inappropriate. There is just no comparison on any level.

This isn't to say that Arabs are not being discriminated against - indeed I was just in a flame war in LBN after I attacked France's treatment of its Arab Muslim population - but the levels of discrimination are a joke compared to the deliberate extermination of six million people.

[_Jumper_]

16. Where did I compare the two?

<I know Jews who were alive in Germany in the 1930s. To compare their lot with that of Arabs today is inappropriate. There is just no comparison on any level.>

I merely said that IF anti-Jewish feeling is at 1930's levels, as is being alleged in the original post, since anti-Arab feeling is much stronger, we will be seeing something drastic happen to them soon. I was refuting the original point. Obviously anti-Arab or anti-Jewish feeling pales in comparison to the 1930's.

[Flagg]

13. if that were true there'd be a massive exodus of French Jewish out of the

country, wouldn't there ?

why would do they wanna stay in a country so anti semitic , let alone anti muslims and anti American ?

weird...

[legin]

17. God damn lowlife bush* pioneer bastard

http://www.tpj.org/pioneers/rockwell_schnabel.html

[GabysPoppy]

18. I guess that means

There is no anti-Semitism in Europe because a "bush* pioneer bastard" said it. There just might be a few grieving families who might argue that point.

:shrug:

[legin]

19. OK

How many countries has Europe invaded in the last couple of years ?

How many websites have we got where most of the discussion is about turning the middle east into glass ?

How many people have we killed by firing hellcat missles at them ?

How much land have we pinched lately ?

But of course there is something a little off about Europeans, they are not quite part of the civilised race. Really they are to be blamed for everything, whilst some people are so full of moral rectitude that it shows tremendous enlightment that they can even bring themselves to talk to us Europeans.

If you want anti-semitism to flourish this is a very good approach to take.

This is starting to get worse than hanging around with my 'control freak' now very ex-girlfriend.

[legin]

21. It isn't Europe who are going out of their way

to see how much they can fuck the the planet up, unlike some countries that spring to mind, and I fucking resent this pious crap and I fucking resent being condemned as immoral by a bunch of fucking arseholes.

[legin]

22. A Question

If what the right wing in israel and the u.s. is doing is so fucking morally pure, then why does the rest of the planet feel like they are living in a nightmare ? And that is if they are lucky, if they are Palestinians or Arabs they may well end up being dead.

[earthman dave]

23. Get used to it

Us europeans are all filthy anti-semites now, apparently. Don't bother posting in here, you won't get through. Anyone who disagrees is the enemy. We hate them because they're free, or something like that.

[David__77]

20. I see no reason to contest this point.

Anti-Semitism is a real problem, and progressives who react to this article by saying "it's an exaggeration" are doing no one any favors. Those who are interested in justice in the Middle East must fight anti-Semitism.

[_Jumper_]

26. 1930's level?

It is a problem and everyone agrees about that. However, it certainly is not at a 1930's level. While saying "Never again" let's remember what exactly we are trying to prevent.

[brainshrub]

25. Is the ambassador Jewish?

I'm not Jewish and I don't live in Europe... perhaps it is that bad? It's possible.

Note to any European Jews who might be reading this: Would you agree with the ambassador?