Palestinian leaders are failing their people...

[Violet_Crumble]

Widespread corruption and extortion have gravely weakened the Palestinian Authority.

To Israel, the question is whether the Palestinian Authority is a credible partner for peace.

To Palestinians, the question is not only whether the authority can credibly claim to represent them in dealings with Israel and the wider world, but whether it is still capable of maintaining law and order and other minimal functions of government in their communities.

These questions are related, for if the authority collapses there will not be a power vacuum in the West Bank and Gaza for long.


<snip>

It is clearly in the interests of both Israel and of Palestinian democracy that the Palestinian Authority should not collapse, but this seems perilously close to happening.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/08/1078594295461.html?from=storyrhs

[Herschel]

1. "Palestinian leaders are failing their people..."

Perhaps the most self evident statement to date.

[Proudlib]

2. If The PA...

Had actually existed to conduct the functions of a viable responsible civil government and put half as much effort into creating a nation as it did in harboring, aiding, and facilitating those trying to destroy one, they wouldn't be in the situation they are in.

No one in Israel told the PA to be a corrupt protector of terrorist organizations. They chose that themselves and the very people they were supposed to be working the interests of, the innocent Palestinans who simply want to live their lives in peace, are the victims of Arafat and his never ending war to destroy Israel.

[Resistance]

3. well

they're also victims of Israel's never ending war to steal their land.

Guess you forgot to mention that part.

[Violet_Crumble]

5. To be fair...

To mention that would be to veer from the Israel Never Does Anything Wrong And Let's Blame Everything About This Conflict On Arafat line. Can't have that happening! ;)


Violet...

[Gimel]

13. Owning the land

you live on is the right of both peoples. Living in peace with your neighbors is the responsibility of both peoples. If the "peace fence" jigs and jags to include Israelis. I think it's reasonable, no matter what a compass says. The same for Palestinians

[Resistance]

14. Wow

I never thought I would have read here that stealing land and kicking people out of their homes is a "reasonable" policy.

:party:

[Gimel]

20. How to read

In fact I said the opposite. I don't agree that kicking anyone out of their home is reasonable. No matter what the compass says.

[Resistance]

22. Then explain something.

If you don't think that kicking people out of their homes is reasonable, then how can you try and argue that the Wall is reasonable, since what it involves is kicking people out of their homes?

[Gimel]

30. No such thing

that is heresay.

[Violet_Crumble]

4. Did you read the article, Herschel?

I tend to believe that both the Palestinian and Israeli leaderships are failing their peoples in an abysmal manner. The Israeli leadership has tried its hardest to undermine the PA and doesn't seem to have the foresight to think what might replace it, and what might replace it is a prospect that should scare everybody....

Violet...

[Herschel]

6. Do not compare

Palestinian and Israeli leadership. As Mr. Proudlib said, the PA has determined itself to be a tool for the destruction of Israel rather than a facilitator for developing a peaceful state that will be an acceptable neighbor. Little Israel's struggle is for survival.

[Darranar]

7. "Acceptable" to whom? Israel?

What right to they have to determine whether or not a Palestinian state is "acceptable"?

What, exactly, is currently a threat to Israel's survival?

The Israeli leaderships' struggle is for more Palestinian land, which is exactly why they are at least as much to blame as the Palestinian leadership.

[Herschel]

8. Please!

The weasel and much of Palestinian leadership is dedicated to the destruction of Israel. The ocean of enemies surrounding Israel is the threat.

[Darranar]

10. They can be "dedicated" to it however much they want...

that doesn't mean they can do it.

[Darranar]

19. A reply would be appreciated. n/t

[Herschel]

21. At a point

there must be sufficient power among the Palestinians ready to break the back of resistance. Until then, their lot is lost.

[Darranar]

23. You are missing the point...

The Palestinian terrorists, and any alles they may have within the Palestinian Authority, do hate Israel and certainly would like to see it destroyed.

However, such a goal is impossible. Israel is not fighting for its survival. If anything, Israel is fighting for its security, which is quite a different thing.

[Herschel]

24. I largely agree with you

The brave IDF and alliance with America ensures her survival. Still, she must respond to terror.

[Resistance]

25. LOL

WHy do I feel like I'm reading a brochure?

[Evil_Dewers]

28. If Israel is viable...

it should be able to stand without US aid (my money).

WTBS, cut off foreign aid to Egypt as well.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jack Rabbit]

9. Both the GOI and the PA are failing their people

Granted, the PA more so than the Israelis. At least the government of Israel provides basic services to its citizens living inside Israel and even outside of it.

Palestinian and Israeli leadership are quite comparable. Both are comprised of crooks and thugs who are dependent on extremists for their power base; neither is at present willing to make the necessary sacrifices to make peace. Both are failing their people. The people on each side deserve better leadership than they have.

The people on both sides badly need this conflict to end. We see a situation where the leadership of both sides is beholden to those who would shed the last drop of blood for the last acre of land. Israel's struggle is one for survival; so is that of the Palestinians. The people on either side have good reason to believe that they would be driven from their homes or worse should the other side, ruled by their respective extremists, triumph.

Declaring over and over again that there is no moral equivalency does not abrogate the fact that moral equivalency is a given. Moral equivalency is something that is never escaped. A Palestinian has the same natural human rights as a Jew.

[Herschel]

11. Moral equivalency

is rightfully decried when some compare homicide bombings to strikes against terrorists. While all governemts have ares of concern, the Palestinian authority ranks well below the government of Israel. The Israeli government is dedicated to the survival of Israel. The Palestinian Authority seeks the destruction of Israel. There is no moral equivalency in these positions.

Those sympathizing with the Palestinains must realize they are victims of the Palestinian Authority, not Israel. Until the Palestinian Authority is righted or replaced by an alternate governing body or cantons, Palestinian suffering will continue. No change in Israeli governemnt can effect this for them.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. Replace the PA with your cantons . . .

. . . and the suffering of the Palestinian people will continue. So will the resistance and the accompanying violence. That idea is occupation by another name, with all the colonial trappings where Israelis will have more rights on Palestinian land than Palestinians do.

Those sympathizing with the Palestinians must realize they are victims of the Palestinian Authority, not Israel.

Do you really mean that seriously? Palestinians are displaced from their homes so that settlements can be built and Palestinians excluded from living in them or traveling on roads accessing them. Are you saying that is should be okay with the Palestinians who used to live where there is now a settlement or bypass road? Or are you saying that it is the PA, not the GOI, that is building those settlements and roads?

[Herschel]

15. Indeed

The settlements are not the primary issue. Palestinian resistance and a governing body unwilling to accept Israel are. The longer and more violent the Palestinian resistance, the more they will expand. Settlements are an outgrowth of the Palestinian problem. Had a responsible Palestinian leadership emerged and earned statehood years ago, many of these settlements would not exist.

[Darranar]

16. And had the Israeli government not sponsored them...

they wouldn't have existed either.

Have you ever considered the fact that a large portion of the Israeli leadership isn't willing to accept Palestinian sovereignty over most of the occupied territories?

[Herschel]

17. It is my belief

most Israelis and their leadership would accept a peaceful state or states over much of the disputed territories.

[Darranar]

18. Most Israelis, certainly...

as do most Palestinians. Look at suppport for the Geneva Accord if you don't believe me.

What their leadership thinks, however, is a different matter.

If the Israeli leadership actually wanted a viable and independent Palestinian state in the Occupied Territories, they would halt settlement growth immediately. They haven't.

[Evil_Dewers]

29. homicide bombings

You must be a Faux News Channel viewer.

LOL!

http://pssht.com/fauxnewsarchives/nov03.html

Homicide Bomber Kills Only Self
President Struggles For a Term to Describe the Man


President Bush is still struggling with how to describe a man whose homicide bombing attempt failed to kill anyone but himself. A collection of experts and the President are actively working
together to resolve this problem. The latest word is that Mr. Bush favors "self-homicide" and "self-inflicted-killifying" over "auto-homicide" - as suggested by Karl Rove - because, "he says
the car was never alive," an anonymous White House source told FOX.

FOX has also learned that the President is in high spirits, frequently adding a dose of his light-hearted humor to the otherwise heavy discussions. His principle concern, said the source,
is that, "someone really oughtta come up with a word for this type of thing."

The confusion began when, on Tuesday, a Palestinian man armed with a car bomb failed to accomplish his goal of killing several Israeli soldiers at a check point in the Golan Heights. The
would-be homicide bomber's plan was to remain inside the explosive-rigged automobile and detonate the vehicle just as he drove past the Israeli military men. However, as luck would have it, he had improperly set up the detonation timer, and as a result only the driver himself was killed.

According to reports the Palestinian man had been planning the bombing for several days, but had not fully learned how to calibrate the timer. "Thank God for incompetentness," said President Bush, "now, let's just figure out a way to label this evil man and get on with our lives."

[Herschel]

31. A clever parody

Yet I was more amused by the act itself. Our now detonated bike rider surely rates mention as stupidest criminal of the week.

[Evil_Dewers]

26. Meanwhile, Corrupt Likud Goon Squad head Arial Sharon

is encouraging American Jews to settle in Israel.

Why, is he running out of Israeli bullet/bomb magnets?