Arafat says Israel plans will make Gaza a "prison"

[Scurrilous]

http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=worldNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4867518

<snip>

"Palestinian President Yasser Arafat on Monday rejected Israel's plan to quit the Gaza Strip as a sham that would turn it into "a big prison".

Palestinian leaders initially gave a cautious welcome to the possibility of Israeli soldiers and settlers leaving the coastal strip, despite suspicions that the Gaza withdrawal plan was an Israeli ruse to strengthen its hold on the West Bank.

But after studying the details of the initiative, including Israel's intention to control Gaza's borders, air space and coastal waters, Arafat and the Palestinian leadership issued a statement slamming the plan as unacceptable.

"What is proposed is transforming Gaza Strip into a big prison and maintaining Israel's control (over it)," the Palestinian leadership said."

[sushi]

1. You can't call this leaving

If Israel intends to control Gaza's borders, air space and coastal waters, that is not really leaving the Gaza strip. What a sham.

[Oak]

26. Yup

You are correct. Israel will not be leaving Gaza. There will still be water links, communication links, sewage links, road links, etc. with the Arab population in Gaza. In addition, Arab workers will still be allowed to enter Israel. There is no "disengagement."

[madrchsod]

2. that is why they are

killing all the hamas leadership. to succeed in their plans they must destroy the head so the body dies. the residents of gaza will live under the freedom that the israeli government grants to them. there are other names to call gaza but those aren`t politically correct...

[Muddleoftheroad]

3. Oh, do tell. What would those names be?

[Classical_Liberal]

17. Bantustan, Indian Reservation ect......

Bantustan

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

Database will be offline for 2 hours at 0:00 UTC to setup a slave server

Bantustan or Bantustans is the disparaging term that refers to the tribal "homelands" of South African native black Africans. These homelands were given to blacks by the white Apartheid rulers of the Republic of South Africa and were designated to become independent states under a grand plan called "Separate Development" which would have granted independence to blacks in these newly created tribal states. Bantu means "people" in the Bantu languages spoken in Southern Africa. There were to be about ten Bantustan-Homelands. These small, quasi-sovereign nations were established under the 1951 Bantu Authorities Act.

The founders and implementers of the Apartheid doctrine pushed the idea of Bantustans vigorously, but they never gained the recognition of the international community, and were mostly despised by South Africa's Blacks. They were unpopular because of a number of reasons:

The boundaries of the Bantustans were drawn to exclude economically valuable land.

The large number of reassigned citizens combined with the small area allocated to the Bantustans meant that the citizen to land ratio was severely disproportionate to that of South Africa.

The white government had exempted 13% of its territory from white settlement, and transformed this fraction into regions of black home-rule. Then they tried to bestow independence on these regions (the "homelands"), claiming that the other 87% was white territory. The black South Africans were divided (often incorrectly) into ethnic groups which were assigned certain homelands. The motivation for the establishment of these states was to take away the few rights that black South Africans had in South Africa, by making them nationals of the homelands. In the majority of these transfers of citizenship, the individuals assigned to homelands did not live in or originate from the small areas which the homelands encompassed.Becoming citizens of the new territories meant losing citizenship of South Africa, where the majority of candidates for reassignment of citizenship lived and worked. This would cause them to lose what few rights and privileges they had as citizens of South Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_South_Africa

[ex_jew]

4. But they had already killed 186 Hamas leaders prior to the latest two.

Do they really think the "body will die" or are they just sick sadistic killers ?

P.S. to Muddle: I have put you on ignore. Since you are not Jewish or Israeli, I'm really not interested in your position on the Israeli situation. Find someone else to "dialog" with.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. Aw shucks

Ignore. I am crushed. Yeah, Israelis must be sick to try and kill those folks who target women and children. LOL.

[number6]

5. a prison with a new label on it ..

thats what I'd call it ...

[Muddleoftheroad]

7. One would think the Palestinians would want to make peace

and get a state then, wouldn't one?

Why is it they don't seem to be willing to do so?

[number6]

8. maybe cause there land was stolen

..

[Oak]

27. By who?

Who stole the lands of the Arabs?

[sushi]

11. I know what Israel wants

The Palestinians disarm completely and in exchange they get a state on Israel's terms. Restricted sovereignty, with Israel in control of air space, water supply, and foreign policy. Does anyone here call that an independent state? Tell me, if you were Palestinian, would you agree to disarm for that?

The Palestinians and the Iraqis are suffering the same thing. Occupation by foreigners. Foreigners who claim to be the good guys.

[Muddleoftheroad]

12. A state

Let's see, Ireland agreed to pretty much the same thing and it led to statehood.

Personally, I'm for a complete and independent Palestinian state(s). But until the Palestinians drop terror, Israel has no motivation in making that happen.

[sushi]

13. Who are you kidding?

What Israel really wants is for all the Palestinians to disappear, or move to Jordan, or for the ground to open up and swallow all of them, or whatever, so Israel can have ALL their land. I bet Israel only reluctantly agreed for the Palestinians to have the "bantustans," and was only offering it because of the pressure. They made the offer so distasteful nobody in their right mind would or could accept.

The Palestinians are not going away. On the contrary, they are multiplying themselves, faster than the Jews. How does Israel plan to deal with that?

I don't see how Israel, being the strongest nation in the ME, can worry about a completely independent Palestine.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. Israelis wish the problem to disappear

That means terror, not the Palestinians.

The population of Palestinians is relatively meaningless to Israel. The population of Israel is massively a Jewish majority. Since Israel is not annexing Gaza or most of the West Bank, those demographic realities have no impact on Israel.

Israel has to worry about an independent Palestine that would back terror just like the PA does right now.

[sushi]

16. How long do you think

the population of Israel will remain massively Jewish?

Care to answer my question in #11: If you were Palestinian would you disarm for the kind of state Israel is offering?

[Muddleoftheroad]

21. A long dang time

Israel has 5 million Jews and 1 million non-Jews. That will take hundreds of years to change.

As for the Palestinian question, I would have taken the deal Arafat rejected. I would still take it and make a big production of it. That would be hard to turn down for Israel.

[sushi]

31. Hundreds of years?

You're being very optimistic now. Suddenly the glass is half full?
I have read that many Israelis of Arab descent have reached child-bearing age! It will certainly not take hundreds of years.

I would not have taken the deal but I also would not have walked away. I would have gone on negotiating. Don't know what you mean by making a big production of it.

[Muddleoftheroad]

32. I have reason to be optimistic about that

The Jewish people of the world will not want the Jewish state to collapse. They supported it with their hearts, their bodies and their finances.

[Classical_Liberal]

18. Why in the world do you want to use the Irish as an example

Do you think any liberal is sympathetic with the British position there?

[Muddleoftheroad]

24. I use it because it works

The Irish accepted less than a state and went from there to both gain a state and peace. Only in NI is there still some conflict.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Comadreja]

9. Wackenhutt gets the contract

Sharon is an obscenity, a psychopath. He wants to rub the whole world's nose in the blood and guts he liberally splatters all over Palestine. HE needs to be in prison with the other serial murderers.

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. Serial murderers?

Like Arafat, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Fatah, Hezbollah, and the rest of the Palestinian terrorist bureaucracy and their financiers and suppliers in Syria, Saudi Arabia and the EU?

[LibInternationalist]

15. Yes

opposing Sharon doesn't mean supporting Arafat and his ilk, believe me

[elsaamo]

20. True but

I once asked a conservative friend of mine if he ever felt concerned that of the most educated people in the world, the ones who spend the most time reading and learning, i.e. professors, the vast majority are progressive. Nobody ever gave me a good answer. I ask you a similar question but about a different issue. I have no doubt that in theory, the Palistinean cause is a just one. There are many issues on which they have serious and legitimate complaints that should be dealt with. But does it ever concern you that of all the vast amounts of people who could have been their leaders, not one is a Martin Luther King or a Nelson Mandela, not one is saying let us stop violence so that we will be worthy of a state. Does that ever bother you?

[Djinn]

22. Hanan Ashwari

[elsaamo]

23. And has anybody mentioned her

as a possible leader? Is there any evidence that she has any political support in the area?

[Djinn]

29. possible leaders

are a bit hard to gage with any real sense - until they have a nation in which taxes can be collected and an infrastructure built it's all just presumption. But I think her previous roles as a legislator and negotiator qualify as "a leader" if not the titular one. Besides it's not like anyone ever seriously suggested Rantissi et al as a Palestinian PM

As for being "peaceful" to proove they're "worthy" of statehood - that really is laughable - when did Israel demonstrate "peace" in order to proove they were worthy of statehood - how was Israel established?? Matter of fact the US hasn't been too peaceful lately maybe we should reneg theirs.

[sushi]

30. It would be hard for

a Christian woman to become leader of the Palestinians. She would be excellent as minister for foreign affairs, imo.

[Noon_Blue_Apples]

19. holy sh*t we agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yup 100%

if you take it down to the EU this also means americans who support sharon (as this all about tit for tat).

then yes, I'm down

[SOS]

25. The EU finances terrorism?

This may be of interest...

According to the German Information Center study, by June 1995 Germany had made $95.64 billion in restitution payments worldwide, Òof which approximately $26 billion has gone to individual recipients in Israel or to the state of Israel itself.Ó

In addition, since 1966 the Israeli government has received annual loans of DM 140 million (approximately U.S. $93.3 million) for a period of 30 years at two percent interest with a 10-year grace period to improve the infrastructure of Israel. By 1997 this amounted to $2.89 billion.

Germany also has contributed an annual $23.3 million to support research at Israeli universities which by 1997 amounted to some $363 million. The German-Israeli Foundation for Research and Development also makes available for science projects some U.S. $14 million annually. There are still other foundation programs and 47 partnerships between German and Israeli universities.

During and after the Gulf War, Germany provided the Israeli government with $167 million in immediate humanitarian aid and $41.3 million in military assistance. Germany also provided Israel with $110 million for Patriot anti-missile systems and $587 million for submarines, for a total of special German assistance to Israel during the Gulf War of $907.4 million.

Putting all these together Israel and its citizens have received some $31 billion in German grants and preferred loans.

[Oak]

28. I'd be more worried

I'd be more worried about the billions given to the corrupt and terrorist Palestinian Authority, and Arafat. Billions given by the US, UN, and the EU. Some of it even goes to Arafat's wife living in Paris.

[walmartsucks]

33. God forbid they give Palestinians a chance at self-rule

"But after studying the details of the initiative, including Israel's intention to control Gaza's borders, air space and coastal waters, Arafat and the Palestinian leadership issued a statement slamming the plan as unacceptable."

Are they controlling Gaza's borders or Israel's? That's like saying the U.S. is controlling the borders of Mexico and Canada. And I can see why they would patrol the waters and airspace initially. Based on the history between the Palestinians and Israel, you don't want to hand over too much too quickly, but it's a start.