'Die, atomic spy!'

[dArKeR]

By Dan Williams

Ashkelon, Israel - "Die, atomic spy!"

"They should have put you up a chimney like the Jews at Auschwitz!"

Hundreds of Israelis went ballistic on Wednesday as Mordechai Vanunu emerged from prison voicing no regrets for exposing the Jewish state's nuclear secrets.

'Die, atomic spy!'
The heckling mounted against cheers by Vanunu fans who had flocked in from all over the world, reaching a crescendo as the 49-year-old former technician flashed them a V-for-victory sign.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1082558700775B253&set_id=1

[Djinn]

1. A quote from a Vanunu hater that I really don't get...

According to our local broadsheet

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/21/1082530232474.html,

an elderly man, Hertl Haliwa, identifying himself as Vanunu's uncle, was quoted as saying:

"He's family, but I want to slash his throat and drink his blood.
He is a fascist. Nuclear weapons are our insurance. The Arabs need to know that we have them. Without them we'd be in the sea."

I just don't get this - apart from the vileness of it (I can understand a member of one's family doing something so awful according to one's beliefs that one might want them dead...but the drinking blood bit????) surely if the "arabs need to know we have them" then Vanunu did every Israeli a favour...am I missing something?

[newyorican]

2. Geez...

that is rather extreme.

[Djinn]

3. that's what I thought

there's a chance it could have been misquoted or out of context (although who knows what context drinking someone's blood would be cool?) but this is a reputable paper (as far as the corporate media is reputable)

[bemildred]

13. Herd behavior, no thinking involved.

If it is desirable that the Arab's know about the Israeli nukes,
then Mr. Vanunu should be thanked for providing that service.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. The Arabs knew enough

He told too much. He is a spy and a traitor. He got off easy.

[bemildred]

15. What you said doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I said.

I wasn't talking about Vanunu.

(Let's not get in a dispute about whether I know what I was
talking about again, OK?)

Have a nice day,

[Muddleoftheroad]

17. You weren't?

You said:

" If it is desirable that the Arab's know about the Israeli nukes,
then Mr. Vanunu should be thanked for providing that service."

So I suppose his name in your post was just an accident?

[bemildred]

19. I thought you might be confused.

Vanunu was relevant, but not the topic, the topic was the
old man's statement, as one could see for oneself by reading
the post that started the sub-thread.

[Muddleoftheroad]

25. I was responding to YOUR comment

Not that comment. Alas.

[bemildred]

27. Well, that is kind of obvious, you replied to my post.

It just didn't have anything to do with what I was talking
about, which was the old man's incoherent remark. But I
already said that. I know you want to talk about Vanunu and
whether he had it coming and all that, but I don't. It would
have been easy enough to jump in if I have wanted to do that.

[Muddleoftheroad]

28. It had to do with your reference to him

Sorry if you didn't like that spin-off of you comment. Life is tough.

[bemildred]

29. Have a nice day. nt

[tinnypriv]

16. What would be a "hard" sentence?

:shrug:

[Muddleoftheroad]

18. Treason

Merits only one sentence in a time of war.

[tinnypriv]

20. Which is?

Please, indulge me.

While you're at it, what war?

[Muddleoftheroad]

22. I would think that answer obvious

Just as what war is obvious.

[Muddleoftheroad]

4. People get excited about traitors and such

Wow, news...

[lefty_mcduff]

5. Other people refer to people like these as 'whistle-blowers'

And view them them as heroes. It would also seem to me that a clandestine WMD program is not much of a deterrent, so this guy should be judged as a hero, even by Israeli hawks.

That this guy spent what, 18 years, in prison for exposing Israel's construction of WMD (remember that term?) would seem to indicate that at the very least, he had paid for whatever crime it was felt he committed.

[Muddleoftheroad]

6. Someone who reveals a secret government defense program

In a nation that is constantly under attack is a spy.

[Vladimir]

7. No he isn't

he may be a traitor, but unless you can prove he was working for a foreign government, he isn't a spy.

[Muddleoftheroad]

8. Do you have to work directly for a foreign government

To be a spy? If what you are doing is spying and releasing information...

Oh well, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's sort of a semantic debate. I can easily understand why Israelis wouldn't like him. How about that?

[Vladimir]

9. I can understand it too

actually. Isreal is in a semi-permanent state of conflict and has been for a while now - while much of that is self inflicted in my opinion, its hardly surprising that whistleblowers will get short shrift from the populace in such circumstances. IMO Vanunu was fully justified in what he did, but to a certain extent that's easy for me to say.

[Muddleoftheroad]

10. That will probably be

About the least biased thing posted in this section today.

Thanks.

[Violet_Crumble]

11. I think he was fully justified...

If it had been conventional military stuff, I'd see it differently, but this was a secret nuclear weapons program. He confirmed what the world already suspected...

It's unsurprising that there is such a level of hatred in some circles in Israel. The govt has been doing its damndest to whip the population up into a frenzy, though I suspect the extremists among them never need much of an excuse to get a hatefest going. To be honest, with the hate being incited and Israel forcing him to remain in Israel, it's not going to come as any great surprise if some sicko ends up murdering him...

Violet...

[Vladimir]

12. He did indeed confirm

what was widely known already, but this is precisely why his action was so damaging to Israel. Everyone know they had WMD but no-one could prove it, and as a result Israel had the benefits of a nuclear deterrent without having to answer to anyone about it. Of course it still doesn't have to answer, because of the US veto, but politically his revelations were very damaging indeed. I wouldn't be surprised if someone kills him either... its a sad state of affairs.

The reason I added 'its easy for me to say' is because I don't think any of us really know how we'd feel if we were living in Israel and had to deal with the threat of bomb attacks on a daily basis. It takes a hell of a lot of courage to remain a left-winger or peace activist in such circumstances, and I can only admire those who manage it.

[Djinn]

24. so perhaps

letting him leave the country would be a good idea or at the very least speak to "foreigners" who include his brother - or do you swallow the line that a technician STILL has any secrets after 18 years in (mostly) solitary confinement and regular interogation by Israeli agents.

[Muddleoftheroad]

31. I personally would never have let him go

At best.

[Djinn]

23. Take your hand off it muddle

I have no surprise that many Israeli's aren't about to join Vanunu's fan club - but personally I think the "drinking his blood" comment was a bit OTT and you know fine well that if some Palestinian said it about a Palestinian traitor that people on this board would use it as evidence of wider Palestinian barbarity - I certainly don't think this ONE man's extremism is demonstrative of wider Israeli thought.

Also the rest of the man's statement about Arab's needing to know that Israel had a nuclear arsenal was odd - they didn't before Vanunu told the wider world that they did - they in fact have always refuse to acknowledge that they have nuclear weapon capabilities - anyone can see that this man's statements are illogical

[Muddleoftheroad]

26. The man's statement was silly

Who wants to drink blood? (Other than the Sci-Fi Mad House psycho, I mean.) As for killing Vanunu, that I understand.

[newyorican]

30. Hertl Haliwa, identifying himself as Vanunu's uncle

That's who. Thought it was quite clear...at least to me.

[Scurrilous]

21. “Vanunu may ask US to grant him political asylum”

http://www.maarivenglish.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=6402

<snip>

"The adopting parents of <‘nuclear spy’ released on Wednesday> Mordechai Vanunu have requested US Secretary of State Colin Powell to organize a plane that would fly Vanunu to the United States”, Dr. Yoel Cohen said on Thursday.

Dr. Cohen, author of the book “The Dimona Alert: Israel, the Bomb and Vanunu”, has been in contact with Vanunu’s adopting parents, Nick and Marry Olof from Minnesota, whom he first met in 1998.

Cohen describes the Olof’s as pacifist middle class Catholics. Initially, they believed their adopted son would get a US citizenship but found out later that only adopted babies are entitled to one.

According to Cohen, the Olof’s hope to arrange for Vanunu to receive a Green Card and are even considering asking the US government to grant him a political asylum."

Fly, atomic spy!