Hizbollah Says Only Resistance Can Destroy Barrier

[Blackaxe]

Palestinian resistance and not an international court ruling is the way to destroy Israel's West Bank barrier, the leader of Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group has said.

The U.N.'s World Court ruled Friday that the partially built barrier, which cuts into the West Bank, was illegal and should be dismantled.

"Some might be pleased by this decision but it has no real or effective value," Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hizbollah's leader, said Friday night.

"What removes the barrier in Palestine is the will, determination and resistance of Palestinians, with the backing of the (Arab) nation."


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=5635135

[Concordance]

1. Obvious, no?

That is kind of obvious by now, no? Well full economic sanctions and blockade by EU and Arab nations would do the job as well. Israel, economically, even with all the aid, is extremely, EXTREMELY, weak.

[Classical_Liberal]

3. Your right

but the EU is starting to look as corrupt as the democrats. They do seem more responsive to their people still.

[Aidoneus]

2. astute, as is his habit

The Zionist government will just thumb its nose at any international ruling on that or any other matter that is not backed up with force, as it has in the case of hundreds of matters for several decades. It was not UN Resolution 425 that removed the occupying army from South Lebanon, but rather the struggle and sacrifice of people like Nasrallah (losing his own son in the process).

[tlcandie]

4. I believe it is a sad day in the world when people feel they are left

with no other alternative to achieve humanistic means/goals than to commit suicide or kill others because noone listens or cares or moves forward to carry through with judgments.

You can't back animals or people into corners and expect them not to come out fighting and not caring whether they live or die. Taking away their housing, means of income, dignity and more will do nothing but destroy their spirit and cause them to lose all hope which then opens them up to these sorts of measures. But, I guess greed and corruption does not care.

[komplex]

5. Which came first....

The Wall or the Suicide bombers?

[tlcandie]

6. I dunno .. thought that was a chicken and egg joke?

:shrug:

[Concordance]

7. I am sure....

I am sure if Palestinians had an army they would use it. BTW, here is a link to a thread about what makes terrorists tick.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x676892

[komplex]

8. What the hell is the

PLO?

[tkmorris]

9. Do you have a point to make?

Or do you prefer just heckling from the safety of the sidelines, where actual conversation isn't necessary?

[komplex]

19. You think conversation is "unsafe?"

Anyway, here's the point. The use of suicide bombers to murder Israeli citizens started before they even thought about building the wall. In fact, the wall has been shown to be quite successful at limiting these attacks. We know that "conversations" are useless with the PLO and so it's the Wall or Genocide, take your pick.

And before we b*tch about how screwed the Palestinians are with the Jews just think for a moment what was the occupied territories were before 1967? Where they an Independent Palestine? No they belonged to Syria and Jordan. Say whatever you want about the Israel, but you know that if they tried to pull the same sh*t with Jordan and Syria, we wouldn't have a Palestinian problem, because the Palestinians would all be dead, 25 years ago.

The occupation, strangely enough was the best thing that ever happened to them.

[Aidoneus]

21. "The occupation, ... was the best thing that ever happened to them"

A fitting cap..more on that later.

The use of suicide bombers to murder Israeli citizens started before they even thought about building the wall. In fact, the wall has been shown to be quite successful at limiting these attacks. We know that "conversations" are useless with the PLO and so it's the Wall or Genocide, take your pick.

Several points. First of all, there is nothing that the disgraced Arafat of today will not capitulate to if you just offer him a few crumbs from the Zionist regime's plate; that they have little credibility in enforcing their periods of cowardice is a more pressing matter (perhaps another "chicken and egg" argument if one wished to pursue it).

The use of human-bomb operations inside "Green Line" cities does not represent any new tendency, nor does the wall. You might note that the tendency was for the human-bomb operations inside "Green Line" cities was already declining over a period, as an effort was shifted instead towards going after military forces of the invader in the '67-occupied territories. For example a recent resistance attack in Gaza saw a slight variation on an old sappers method, with an occupation base outside Gush Katif tunnelled under and detonated.

And before we b*tch about how screwed the Palestinians are with the Jews just think for a moment what was the occupied territories were before 1967? Where they an Independent Palestine? No they belonged to Syria and Jordan. Say whatever you want about the Israel, but you know that if they tried to pull the same sh*t with Jordan and Syria, we wouldn't have a Palestinian problem, because the Palestinians would all be dead, 25 years ago.

Where to begin.. Your grip on the facts being spoken of is not too terribly tight.. to attempt in correcting that, I would first of all swap the mention of Syria for Egypt. Syrian territory remains occupied by the Zionist state, but I suspect you are referring to Gaza in the SW and not the Jawlani in the NE.

There have, on the contrary, been problems between various Palestinian nationalist organizations and the ruling regimes in these lands (not so much with Egypt typically for many decades, until the recurring capitulation to the US & Zionist state made by the dictators Sadat & Mubarak). The differences ranged from basic ideological disagreements, to short periods of open warfare (the Palestinian people remain in existance, however). Some of the upper rank bureaucrats thought more of fattening themselves rather than what they had signed up to advance. Their corruption and arbitrary divisions goes to explain why the Zionist state has nearly always been able to drive a wedge between its adversaries and then manage to have them begging for crumbs as the result of their failures. There is, however, an example of reversing of this sort of setback; see the original article that began this thread for the name of one of the men responsible for that accomplishment.

The '67-occupied territories were indeed not organized into an "independent state" before the Naksa, for a variety of shady reasons. First of all, the West Bank area was seized and annexed in the course of the Naqba by the Jordanian dictator out of greed, in the course of a secret agreement with the early Zionist leadership (these lands were, of course, later seized in the continued catastrophe). Gaza is unable to stand by itself. However, these two regions in themselves represent only a fraction of the whole.

The sadistic rape of Rafah only recently would suggest the rank absurdity in such a downplaying suggestion.

The occupation, strangely enough was the best thing that ever happened to them.

You'll have to explain this line, because I'm having a hard time getting away from the sinister connotations of it.. "the Holocaust, strangely enough was the best thing that ever happened to Israel" would be a suitably comperable application to the other foot, and is a quite horrible statement in itself.

[Djinn]

37. so because an independant Palestine

did not exist before means there never should be one? Does that warped logic apply to Israel as well?

[funnymanpants]

14. First came the illegal occupation

Israel started its illegal occupation in 1967.

The first suicide bomber appeared in the early 90's.

Which came first, Americans natives killing settlers, or the Whites stealing land?

[Baltimoreboy]

17. And the PLO formed in 1964

[funnymanpants]

27. Yes, and Israeli illegal activity started around

the turn of the century.

As the UN has noted in its history, if there were not illegal immigration, there would not be a problem.

[Aidoneus]

18. You are mistaken

That is only a part (in cold mathematical terms, about 20%) of the matter and not a good place to put down as a starting line..

[metasphere]

10. "resistance" = murder of innocents, right?

I still remember sitting in a Starbucks in Washington DC about 3 days after 9/11/01 and overhearing people at the table next to me claiming that the attacks were merely legitimate "resistance" against US policies.

Ever since, the use of that word in that way has given me the creeps. When used by organizations like Hezbollah and their supporters, it is often a noble-sounding euphemism for murder.

No matter how worthy the cause, the ends do not justify the means.

What is the solution to the problem of the West Bank Wall? I do think that the Palestinians should resist. But legitimate resistance is non-violent. Look at Ghandi, or MLKing. What would they say about suicide bombers if they were alive today?

[number6]

12. something GWB should look at

No matter how worthy the cause, the ends do not justify the means.

[Concordance]

13. Ghandi or MLKing? ..what about "Targeted Assassinations"?

You say, "Look at Gandhi, or MLKing." Both of them would have been taken out the first day they tried anything. Can u say "Targeted Assassinations"? Heh.

I can just imagine it....

Gandhi in the west bank.

Gandhi: Resistance throuh peace!
>>>>loud whooosh sound coming from a Apache helicopter hovering few thousand feet away
Gandhi: Huh?
>>>> Booom!

Funny? More like sad. The way Israel has been operating since 1948, beginging of its modern existence thats is, that scenario is quite plausible.

>>>edited for spelling<<<<

[metasphere]

15. Two wrongs don't make a right...

I do not know if a Ghandi-like figure would receive the same treatment that terror leaders have, but I think it would be much less likely. Regardless of if how a non-violent approach was received, it would never be in danger of losing the moral high ground.

[bigbillhaywood]

24. Tell that to Rachel Corrie, armed only with a bullhorn, intentionally

run over by an Israeli bulldozer, then excoriated for her "stupidity" and "support for terrorism" both in the mainstream press and here at DU. Moral high ground? Get real. In the good ole US of A, every thing the "brave" Israelis do is right and justified, everything the dirty, terrorist Palestinians do is wrong and unjustified. Yassir Arafat could adopt MLK-type methods tomorrow and not a fucking thing would change in terms of the Israeli occupation and US support for it. Nothings gonna change it period short of a revolution right here in the US. Here's hoping for it.

[grapedape]

33. a revolution right here in the US. Here's hoping for it.???????

Sorry bud but civil war isn't.

[newyawker99]

16. Hi metasphere!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Aidoneus]

20. that is not it at all

I would suggest that you study closer the facts of the matter before making such improper assertions. Since you bring it up, Hizbu'llah were one of the first in the world to express their horror at the 9/11 events.

When they use the term, it is used in the plainest sense. The term "defense", however, when used by their enemy has been cover for one of the most systematic and sadistic aggressions in modern times.

You bring up Gandhi and MLK, but you should consider the fact that the situations are incomperable. Deeper study would reveal this at an instant, and shallow cliches are no substitute for such.

[bigbillhaywood]

23. By your logic "legitimate resistance is non-violent", then the Warsaw

Ghetto uprising, the French Resistance, Nelson Mandela's ANC, the Irish Republican movement, the American and French revolutions were all illegitimate resistance movements. Why do so many people think Gandhi and MLKs strategies are universally applicable to every struggle? MLK had armed bodyguards and joined forces later with Malcolm X. Gandhi himself admitted that in certain circumstances armed resistance is warranted, and may indeed be the only effective method of resistance in those cases.

Non-violent peacenik absolutists have no concept of effective resistance. They have no resolve to win. I respect the repressive IDF and racist JDL/Kahane more than wishy-washy peaceniks-- at least they've got some stones.

[number6]

11. I appose Hizbollahs tactics just as much as I appose the wall...

but that evil wall is gonna go sooner or later ....

[bigbillhaywood]

25. What tactics do you oppose exactly? Hizbollah abandoned attacks on

civilians long ago. They strongly condemned the 9/11 attacks. For the last fifteen years or so they've operated as a fairly standard political/guerilla organization-- focusing attacks on soldiers not civilians. They operate as the largest relief/charitable organization in Lebanon, a potent political party (which despite their Islamic rhetoric, in practice is relatively secular), and they drove the IDF out of South Lebanon. Sound like good tactics to me.

[grapedape]

34. So what's stopping you from joining up with hizbollah?

I'm sure they would accept any and all apologist supporters.

[bigbillhaywood]

36. Delete

[grapedape]

22. Too bad for hisbullacrap

They are nothing but terrorists and would like nothing more than an easy way to kill Jewish citizens. I say make the wall bigger to keep the terrorists out.

[bigbillhaywood]

26. Reference my other posts on this thread. Hizbollah hasn't operated as

a terrorist organization for many years now. They target soldiers, not civilians. That makes them a political and guerilla organization, not a terrorist group.

[grapedape]

29. Bullshit

If a group targets the police that protect and serve then they are terrorists.

[Violet_Crumble]

30. The IDF are terrorists?!?!

After all, they've targetted the Palestinian police that protect and serve!! ;)

Violet...

[bigbillhaywood]

35. Delete. I kinda figured he might be a Freeper. Shouldn't have wasted

my time responding.

[Violet_Crumble]

28. Yes, let's all hold hands and say...

Make the wall bigger!
Make the wall wider!
Make it take much more of the West Bank than it already is!
Make the wall dispossess even more of their homes and livelihoods!
Make the wall cause more suffering!


Violet...

p.s. I'm noticing a lot of unfamiliar names popping up in some of these threads. Am I right in guessing the threads have been kicked down here from LBN and the unfamiliar faces may not even realise that this forum even exists and still be wondering where the thread went? It kind of seems pointless replying to people who may never read the thread again...

[dArKeR]

31. 'Only resistance can destroy barrier'

Beirut - Palestinian resistance and not an international court ruling is the way to destroy Israel's West Bank barrier, the leader of Lebanon's Hizbollah guerrilla group has said.

The United Nations' World Court ruled on Friday that the partially built barrier, which cuts into the West Bank, was illegal and should be dismantled.

"Some might be pleased by this decision but it has no real or effective value," Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, Hizbollah's leader, said on Friday night.

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw1089468360757B253

[Gimel]

32. And the ISM

Go to it. Knock your heads against the wall.