Arab wall of silence surrounds the fence

[drdon326]

How did it happen that only a few dozen Israeli Arabs protested the fence, while Israeli Arab contractors participated in its construction? How did it happen that in some places, under pressure from Arab local councils, the fence was routed eastward, at the expense of Palestinian lands? Are there Israeli Arabs who support separation? On condition of anonymity, one well-known Arab public figure, a resident of the Triangle, was willing to speak.

"It's true that the Arab public wants a peace agreement, but beyond the political dimension, 99 percent of the Arabs in Israel believe that the fence is a positive thing. It has blocked all illegal attempts to enter Israel, and has cut down on robberies and other crimes. The economy is flourishing; millions that were invested in the Palestinian towns are now invested in Wadi Ara. And don't forget that the Arab public is different from the Palestinians. The Arab public has a different pattern of life."

This public figure is not alone. "People say `good riddance,'" according to a journalist who lives in Umm al-Fahm. Between anonymous speakers on the one hand and Tibi and Bishara on the other, it is difficult to identify a single "Arab stand" on separation.

There is only one individual who openly expressed qualified support of the fence - Sheikh Hashem Abd a-Rahman, mayor of Umm al-Fahm. In January, a-Rahman told Haaretz that since the portion of the fence opposite his town went up a few months before, "residents are sleeping peacefully, they feel more secure. People aren't passing through their houses and their fields, they are not blowing up anything and not endangering the residents."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/449747.html
.................................................................

"99 percent of the Arabs in Israel believe that the fence is a positive thing."....and they are right.

[wtmusic]

1. Reports Haaretz, the totally objective ISRAELI daily

and 98% of East Germans actually *supported* the building of a 3-meter concrete barrier throught their homeland! (suuuurrrre...)

"And don't forget that the Arab public is different from the Palestinians. The Arab public has a different pattern of life."

Well let's talk to some Palestinians, since their not Arabs any more, and since the fence just happens to be running across THEIR property.

What a pantload.

[drdon326]

2. This is way too funny.....

now you dont like haaretz, huh??

I know someone who would give you an argument about that...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x73926#74433



Seriously, maybe the messege bothers you so much, you'll
shoot just about ANY messenger.lol

[wtmusic]

3. Yeah, funny

Is there a point here?

I've seen this story way too many times to be bothered by it, most recently about a month ago.

The Israeli press trots this out shortly after rocket attacks which kill Palestinian kids. Very predictable. Not that funny though.

[drdon326]

4. Well....

it sure appears that....


1.israel arabs support the fence
2.At least one town wanted the fence moved east of town to
protect themselves against terrorists
3.israeli arabs appear to want to live under israeli rule than live
under PA control (can you blame them?)
4.israeli arabs are happy and prosperous with the wall (see country club)
5.israeli arabs dont identify fully with the palestinian goals.

[bigbillhaywood]

7. The only one of these points that I think is significant is #5.

However, in the history of oppressed people it is not without precedent (in fact it is very common). The house slave vs. the field slave is a good example. More privileged groups within an oppressed community are often more likely to side with the common oppressor (and sometimes even identify with that oppressor), as they may regard doing so as being in their interests more than those who are the worse off.

So EVEN IF a majority of Israeli Arabs supported the fence, in terms of a national liberation struggle it means nothing unless the majority of the Palestinian population AS A WHOLE supported the fence. And I can even imagine certain circumstances where even if that were the case, it would not make an objective difference in terms of the oppressive nature of the fence (eg when Bush's approval ratings were above 80%, did that change the fact that Bush was doing thing detrimental to the very interests of those who approved of him?).

Sorry, drdon, but this whole "this or that Israeli Arab supports the fence" argument cannot objectively sustain a position for the fence. Try something else.

[drdon326]

8. LOL

i'll let the post stand on its own.

[bigbillhaywood]

10. By the way, are you really a doctor? Just curious. nt

[drdon326]

11. I usually dont answer that......

yes.

[bigbillhaywood]

12. Alright...

Are you a:

1. "Hey, Doc, got this rash on my groin right after I got back from Amsterdam. Can ya give me something for it?" kind of doctor?

OR

2. A "Now our guest lecturer, Dr. Don Cornelius, who will educate us on the mating rituals of Mayan basketweavers." kind of doctor?

[drdon326]

13. Well, it aint #2

thats pretty much as far as i will go.


Now, how are you "BIG"?? LOL

[bigbillhaywood]

14. Are you coming on to me?! Where's that damn alert button!

[drdon326]

15. Not even close.....

just figured like most guys , we tend to exaggerate.

[bigbillhaywood]

16. Do you know who Big Bill Haywood was?

[drdon326]

17. Obviously not.

.

[bigbillhaywood]

18. Do a Yahoo search on him and enlighten yourself to a lesser-known but

nonetheless important part of American history. If you know who the IWW (the Wobblies) are, he was a central leader of that organization in the early 20th century. A real bad-ass labor leader. Makes John L. Lewis look like a wimp. And had much better politics than most. As a union organizer myself, he's one of my biggest heroes.

[bigbillhaywood]

5. I asked for a poll of Palestinians, not some anonymous dude pulling

figures like 99% out of his ass. I never said just because an article is from Ha'aretz that means it's accurate, just less likely to be biased than the JP. The point of my previous post is that pulling out a few individual Palestinians that approve of this fence, for whatever reason, does not indicate the Palestinian population as a whole approves of it, nor does it demonstrate that the fence is just. You're gonna have to do better than that drdon.

[drdon326]

6. Man.....I thought you like haaretz.

So you wont believe anything that doesnt fit your beliefs??


well, does the fact that only a handfull of israeli-arabs showed
up to protest the fence tell you anything??

[bigbillhaywood]

9. Okay...

1. "Man.....I thought you like haaretz."

Did you not read this part in my previous post:

"I never said just because an article is from Ha'aretz that means it's accurate, just less likely to be biased than the JP."

2. "well, does the fact that only a handfull of israeli-arabs showed
up to protest the fence tell you anything??"

a. Define a "handfull"

b. Refer to my Post #7. Absence of resistance does not mean absence of oppression. Your whole argument about what Palestinians do or do not support the fence has no objective bearing on whether or not the fence is justified.

[drdon326]

19. From the lead article....

"Hulud Badawi, a field researcher for the ACRI (Association of Civil Rights in Israel) estimates the number of Israeli Arab anti-fence activists at no more than 100."

[bigbillhaywood]

21. That takes care of 2a. Now how bout 2b.? n/t

[drdon326]

20. Re: poll

as far as I can tell, there is no poll.

I've googled and have found nothing....if you find one
please post.

Therefore anecdotal evidence, and now 4 or 5 articles,
will be the only way to moniter.