Eyewitness Describes Gaza Shooting of British Student

[Englander]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3911768

An American peace activist today gave evidence at the trial of an Israeli soldier accused of killing a British student photographer.

Joseph Carr, 23, was called as a defence witness in the manslaughter trial of Sgt Wahid Taysir.
Appearing in court at a military base at Castina Junction in Ashkalon, near Tel Aviv, Mr Carr was asked to describe the moments leading up to 22-year-old Tom Hurndall’s shooting.

Mr Hurndall, from north London, had been shepherding Palestinian children to safety at a checkpoint in the Rafah refugee camp when he was shot in the head in April 2003.

Mr Carr was working as a volunteer for the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) when he accompanied the Manchester Metropolitan University student to Gaza.

[itzamirakul]

1. The Israeli soldier will be exonerated.

I do not believe there is one instance on record where an Israeli soldier has ever been held responsible for the murder, or other attack or torture of ANY person found to be in assistance to the Palestinians. It is a given. That's just the way it is.

[Paleocon]

2. Yeah, but at least they are having a "dog and pony show" trial...

The Palestinians don't have the decency to even do that...

[itzamirakul]

3. Like John Kerry, I really don't have

much of a position for either side. I tend to feel a little more sorry for the Palestinians because they are so outgunned and outweaponed.

But that aside, Usually when the Palestinians score a hit on some Israelis, the israeli army goes in and bombards entire towns and houses indicriminantly, claiming that the houses held insurgents. Well, aren't ALL Palestinians insurgents (in that they want what they consider to be their country back)? I have never heard of Palestinians being able to keep Israeli soldiers in prison for trial. I don't think they have the capability of keeping prisoners contained and away from resucue by the elite Israeli army. However, I do not live there and have no real ideal of what they can or cannot do.

And aren't ALL Israelis insurgents (given that they want to keep the land that God gave them)?

[QueerJustice]

4. I seem to remember John Kerry...

Did express a strong support of Israel during his campaign and to say ``And aren't ALL Israelis insurgents (given that they want to keep the land that God gave them)`` is not understanding that MOST Israeli Jews are secular Jews and G-D does not enter much into the equation..

...most Zionism is not religious Zionism...beginning with the Dreyfus trial .....

[itzamirakul]

5. It is really dangerous to discuss anything that has to do

with Israel in this Palestinian conflict. No matter what one may say, it always goes back to the fact that the Israelis are right and the Palestinians are wrong and if you disagree with that then you are anti-semetic and that's that.

From what I have ever understood about this confict beginning with 1947, the Israelis cut out their portion of land from Muslim-held territories because they said that was what God had promised them. Then in the 1960s, they increased the amount of land so that they would access to water.

As I said before, I am not an expert in this war...I can only state what I have read and what my opinion is.

[drdon326]

6. Perhaps...

you might read up about 1967 and 1973.

[drdon326]

7. Here start here...

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/1967toc.html

[itzamirakul]

10. Okay...thanks...

I have bookmarked the site and I will read it.

Some years ago,(25 years ago) I had the opportunity of working with two men who had immigrated from Egypt. They told a much different story than one that we usually hear in America.

But now, I wonder if you can refer me to a site that tells the Palestinian side of the conflict. The site that you gave me for information is published by the Jewish side of the conflict. History is always written by the victors.

[Forkboy]

13. lol

[pelsar]

8. itzamirakul...

your not even close.....

[drdon326]

9. I really wonder...

who else has that kind of history they believe in ??

:crazy:

[itzamirakul]

11. I suppose a great number of people like me who

would really like to hear BOTH sides of the story and not just the side presented by the more heavily weaponed and financially-supported.

[King Mongo]

14. History of the conflict

I like the US Library of Congress:

A Country Study: Israel
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/iltoc.html

It mentions Jewish terrorism prior to 1948 and talks about why Israel attacked Egypt in 1956 and 1967 and why Egypt wanted the land back in 1973 that Israel took.

Here's a good introduction:

Fallen Pillars
Chapter One: Zionism: Jewish Americans and the State Department, 1897-1945
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/style/longterm/books/chap1/fallenpillars.htm

along with this one:

Why the U.S. Supports Israel
http://www.fpif.org/papers/usisrael_body.html


Of course, the UN has a lot of great information on the topic:
Question of Palestine
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html

Of course, if one reads http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/1967toc.html

Then one must also read the other side of the story:
http://www.palestinehistory.com/


My recommendation is to read, read and read. Read everything, every opinion from every source and then come up with your own conclusions.

[King Mongo]

15. More good reviews on the topic

Here are some other good locations for information:

Israel & Palestine
http://www.marxists.de/middleast/isrpalndx.htm

The History of the Middle East on the Web
http://hnn.us/articles/705.html

Read, read and read. :)

[King Mongo]

16. Oh, I forgot this one....

Yes, this one is interesting too.

History of Israel
http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/H/History-of-Israel.htm


It even talks about how Israel orchestrated a bombing campaign against American governmental and civilian installations in Egypt, including an American library in Alexandria & Cairo, an MGM Cinema and other American owned business buildings.

[King Mongo]

12. who kills peace activists?

As far as my knowledge goes, I do not think that any peace activists have been murdered by anyone other than the IDF in the occupied territories^.

[pelsar]

17. well king...guess you got some to learn:

TEL AVIV, March 27, 2002: Two international observers, a Turkish man and a Swiss woman, were shot dead in the southern West Bank on Tuesday night......
The observers were "mistakenly" targeted near a road used by Jewish settlers......

Nine foreign citizens were killed by Palestinians, two of them members of the International Presence in Hebron;

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statistics/Al_Aqsa_Fatalities_Tables.asp

but more to the point...lets get some more interesting reads (some of your links just hint at the absurd...lets really go for it here:

http://www.jewwatch.com
tons of good reading about jews/history etc. here you'll read about jew conspiracies, jews take over the world, jews control the press,

http://jewishconspiracies.com another informative site......

[King Mongo]

18. Thanks for the corrections

Thanks for the correction. I was unaware that Palestinians killed nine Israelis, as reported by btselem, in the occupied territories. Such is certainly very unfortunate and I hope that it will never happen again. As for the italic text, what is the source? I would like to read it.


Which site had a link to http://www.jewwatch.com and http://jewishconspiracies.com? I was unaware that any of them had such links and I hope that it's not the US Library of Congress. :)

[King Mongo]

19. Was it the US Library of Congress

I searched each of my links but could not find the links that you mentioned. Later when I have more time, I'll examine the Library of Congress in detail to see if those links can be found there. If you can spare me of the lengthy investigation, I would be highly gratefull.

[King Mongo]

20. Oh, my apologies!

I'm sorry, I misread your last post. Sometimes, I read too fast.

You said: some of your links just hint at the absurd

Maybe you were refering to this:

They first blew up some post offices and a few days later, the American libraries in Cairo and Alexandria.
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/lavon.html

Which was also discussed at worldhistory.com

Or, maybe you were talking about: Shlomo Ben Yosef, was hanged for shooting an Arab bus
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/irgun.html

Irgun activities are also discussed at the US Library of Congress.

Like I said, read and learn. What we do not know may appear to be absurd when we first hear about it.